New to Shimano -- is this normal?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Larry Coon, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. Larry Coon

    Larry Coon Guest

    After always having ridden Italian steel frames
    with Campy components (and a long absence from
    riding recently), I just bought my first Shimano-
    equipped bike (a Trek 5200, with Ultegra).
    There are some things associated with the index
    shifting that annoy me, and I don't know whether
    these problems are inherent to these components:

    -- It seems like I don't have as much control
    over the front derailleur as I have with
    Campy. Many times now I've wanted to trim
    the front derailleur by about a half-click.

    -- Related to the above, if I'm riding my big
    chainring with one of the inner cogs, if
    the chain is hitting the inner plate of the
    front derailleur, then it's sometimes not
    possible to move the derailleur in a little
    bit without downshifting & upshifting.

    -- I can't change gears while braking. Do people
    brake with the front, shift with the back and
    vice-versa?

    Before I spend a lot of time tweaking the
    adjusments, I thought I'd better check to see if
    this is something I just have to live with. Is
    Dura-Ace any better WRT these problems?


    Larry Coon
    University of California

    (And I'm still reaching for the thumb levers, but
    that's another issue....)
     
    Tags:


  2. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

    Joined:
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    Yes, a very different feel.

    Sometimes getting some visual cues and what to expect will help you practice:

    <http://bike.shimano.com/product_images/ST/si_images/ST_6510_SI.pdf>

    You can shift without braking with a total sideways movement. If you pull back, even a little, you will be pulling on the brake cable.

    I have used both Ultegra and DURA ACE. I don't remember any advantages other than a longer warranty on DURA ACE.
     
  3. Ken

    Ken Guest

    Larry Coon <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > -- It seems like I don't have as much control
    > over the front derailleur as I have with
    > Campy. Many times now I've wanted to trim
    > the front derailleur by about a half-click.


    Ultegra does have a front derailleur trim feature. You should have 4 shift
    positions (2 on each chainring). If you have trouble trimming, your cable
    tension may be set incorrectly.
     
  4. Graham

    Graham Guest

    "Larry Coon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > After always having ridden Italian steel frames
    > with Campy components (and a long absence from
    > riding recently), I just bought my first Shimano-
    > equipped bike (a Trek 5200, with Ultegra).
    > There are some things associated with the index
    > shifting that annoy me, and I don't know whether
    > these problems are inherent to these components:
    >
    > -- It seems like I don't have as much control
    > over the front derailleur as I have with
    > Campy. Many times now I've wanted to trim
    > the front derailleur by about a half-click.
    >
    > -- Related to the above, if I'm riding my big
    > chainring with one of the inner cogs, if
    > the chain is hitting the inner plate of the
    > front derailleur, then it's sometimes not
    > possible to move the derailleur in a little
    > bit without downshifting & upshifting.
    >
    > -- I can't change gears while braking. Do people
    > brake with the front, shift with the back and
    > vice-versa?
    >
    > Before I spend a lot of time tweaking the
    > adjusments, I thought I'd better check to see if
    > this is something I just have to live with. Is
    > Dura-Ace any better WRT these problems?
    >
    >
    > Larry Coon
    > University of California
    >
    > (And I'm still reaching for the thumb levers, but
    > that's another issue....)



    "I can't change gears while braking"

    Why not I can ?

    Graham
    ..
     
  5. On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:37:54 -0700, Larry Coon wrote:

    > -- It seems like I don't have as much control
    > over the front derailleur as I have with
    > Campy.


    Campy Ergo has a ratcheted, rather than indexed, front shifter, that IMO
    is much better. Stick with Campy, son.

    > -- I can't change gears while braking. Do people
    > brake with the front, shift with the back and vice-versa?


    Again, Campy brake levers are not the shift levers. So you have more
    options.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can
    _`\(,_ | only be cured by something racy and Italian. Bianchis and
    (_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis and Ferraris. --
    Glenn Davies
     
  6. Craig

    Craig Guest


    > > Before I spend a lot of time tweaking the
    > > adjusments, I thought I'd better check to see if
    > > this is something I just have to live with. Is
    > > Dura-Ace any better WRT these problems?
    > >
    > >
    > > Larry Coon
    > > University of California
    > >
    > > (And I'm still reaching for the thumb levers, but
    > > that's another issue....)

    >
    >
    > "I can't change gears while braking"
    >
    > Why not I can ?
    >
    > Graham


    And how was this helpful?? "Why not I can ?"
     
  7. david

    david Guest

    > Why not I can ?
    >
    > Graham


    because you are pulling the lever down, and trying to push the lever
    sideways at the same time. unlike campy with the thumb-button.

    david
     
  8. Craig

    Craig Guest


    > -- Related to the above, if I'm riding my big
    > chainring with one of the inner cogs, if
    > the chain is hitting the inner plate of the
    > front derailleur, then it's sometimes not
    > possible to move the derailleur in a little
    > bit without downshifting & upshifting.
    >


    You will get the feel for the Shimano trim. The trim you are talking about
    (trimming the front derailleur from the big ring outside to the big ring
    inside is probably the most difficult to get the feel for (also has the most
    the lose, since you risk dropping the chain to the little ring). After 5
    years with my Ultegra stuff, I still accidentally drop to the little ring a
    few times a summer.

    Best advice is to know where your front derailleur trim is before trimming.
    Push your front shifter and confirm you are in the big ring outside before
    trying to trim into the big ring inside.
     
  9. Monty

    Monty Guest


    >
    > (And I'm still reaching for the thumb levers, but
    > that's another issue....)


    Once you get used to the Shimano shifters, those thumb levers will feel VERY
    awkward.
     
  10. iconspam-<< After always having ridden Italian steel frames
    with Campy components (and a long absence from
    riding recently), I just bought my first Shimano-
    equipped bike (a Trek 5200, with Ultegra). >><BR><BR>

    Ico<< -- It seems like I don't have as much control
    over the front derailleur as I have with
    Campy. Many times now I've wanted to trim
    the front derailleur by about a half-click. >><BR><BR>


    Vecchio-True, shimano STI front shifters are very positional and 'finicky' when
    it comes to der placement and inner wire adjustment.

    ICO<< -- Related to the above, if I'm riding my big
    chainring with one of the inner cogs, if
    the chain is hitting the inner plate of the
    front derailleur, then it's sometimes not
    possible to move the derailleur in a little
    bit without downshifting & upshifting. >><BR><BR>


    vecchio-true again, see above. a 'loose' inner wire for the front der when on
    the smallest ring may help this.

    ICO-<< -- I can't change gears while braking. Do people
    brake with the front, shift with the back and
    vice-versa? >><BR><BR>

    Vecchio-true again, when the shift lever is also the brake lever-you cannot.

    DA is the same deign and no better. There is a solution that will elleviate all
    the problems you see along with toasted STI levers that cannot be
    repaired...starts with a 'C'..amp....ag...nolo.....

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  11. craig-<< And how was this helpful?? "Why not I can ?" >><BR><BR>


    Didn't know Yoda rode a bicycle....

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

    > craig-<< And how was this helpful?? "Why not I can ?" >><BR><BR>
    >
    >
    > Didn't know Yoda rode a bicycle....


    Yoda rides a recumbent.

    --
    Tom Sherman
     
  13. > (sorry, cannot find the original message)

    You said that you cannot shift while braking. This is strange, I tried
    it yesterday and I can: upshifting goes without problems. Downshifting
    requires a bit more effort to find a finger that can do it, but with a
    bit of practice it becomes easy.
    Usually I rear-upshift while braking to restart with a lower gear, and
    as I said it's possible and easy. I'm using 9s D/A.
    Of course with Campy it's easier...

    Francesco
     
  14. Craig

    Craig Guest


    > ICO-<< -- I can't change gears while braking. Do people
    > brake with the front, shift with the back and
    > vice-versa? >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Vecchio-true again, when the shift lever is also the brake lever-you

    cannot.
    >
    > DA is the same deign and no better. There is a solution that will

    elleviate all
    > the problems you see along with toasted STI levers that cannot be
    > repaired...starts with a 'C'..amp....ag...nolo.....


    Just for the record. Peter you are NOT correct with the above Shimano
    dis-information:
    Please read on:

    "You said that you cannot shift while braking. This is strange, I tried
    it yesterday and I can: upshifting goes without problems. Downshifting
    requires a bit more effort to find a finger that can do it, but with a
    bit of practice it becomes easy.
    Usually I rear-upshift while braking to restart with a lower gear, and
    as I said it's possible and easy. I'm using 9s D/A.
    Of course with Campy it's easier... - Francesco"
     
  15. Francesco-<< You said that you cannot shift while braking. This is strange, I
    tried
    it yesterday and I can: upshifting goes without problems. Downshifting
    requires a bit more effort to find a finger >><BR><BR>

    I guess you can find the little lever, push it while also using the brake lever
    to brake but two hands on one lever is a tough one. What happens most is
    braking, w/o trying to, while shifting.

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  16. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    > Francesco-<< You said that you cannot shift while braking. This is strange, I
    > tried
    > it yesterday and I can: upshifting goes without problems. Downshifting
    > requires a bit more effort to find a finger >><BR><BR>
    >
    > I guess you can find the little lever, push it while also using the brake lever
    > to brake but two hands on one lever is a tough one. What happens most is
    > braking, w/o trying to, while shifting.
    >
    > Peter Chisholm
    > Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    > 1833 Pearl St.
    > Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535
    > http://www.vecchios.com
    > "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"


    Maybe my explication was a little bad, so I'll try to be clearer:

    1. upshifting* while braking: no problems on that.

    2. downshifting while braking: You can pull the brake lever with index
    and middle, while with the ring you push the small shift lever. I admit
    it's not the simplest thing, but it can be done.

    1. is the most common to me, as if I stop I usually restart with a lower
    gear, so I don't care if 2. is hard (however it's true that if you want
    to front shift this could be a problem).
    All that said, I completely agree with you on the Ergo vs. STI debate
    (and in general with the whole campy vs. shimano war -that nobody wants
    to restart).


    * I mean moving the chain to a bigger cog (or this is usually called
    'down'shift?)


    Francesco
     
  17. Amit

    Amit Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message

    > Vecchio-true again, when the shift lever is also the brake lever-you cannot.
    >
    > DA is the same deign and no better. There is a solution that will elleviate all
    > the problems you see along with toasted STI levers that cannot be
    > repaired...starts with a 'C'..amp....ag...nolo.....


    because some newbie hasn't figured out how to use STI which works for
    thousands of riders of all levels he should switch to Campy ?

    how retarded is that ?
     
  18. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Francesco Devittori wrote:

    > Maybe my explication was a little bad, so I'll try to be clearer:
    >
    > 1. upshifting* while braking: no problems on that.
    >
    > 2. downshifting while braking: You can pull the brake lever with index
    > and middle, while with the ring you push the small shift lever. I admit
    > it's not the simplest thing, but it can be done.
    >
    > 1. is the most common to me, as if I stop I usually restart with a lower
    > gear, so I don't care if 2. is hard (however it's true that if you want
    > to front shift this could be a problem).
    > All that said, I completely agree with you on the Ergo vs. STI debate
    > (and in general with the whole campy vs. shimano war -that nobody wants
    > to restart).
    >
    >
    > * I mean moving the chain to a bigger cog (or this is usually called
    > 'down'shift?)


    Courtesy of Sheldon Brown:

    Downshift - The act of shifting to a lower gear. In the case of derailer
    gearing, this means shifting to a larger rear sprocket, or a smaller
    chainwheel in front. [1]

    Upshift - The act of shifting to a higher gear. In the case of derailer
    gearing, this means shifting to a smaller rear sprocket, or a larger
    chainwheel. [2]

    [1] <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_d.html#downshift>,
    [2] <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_u-v.html#upshift>.

    --
    Tom Sherman
     
  19. Tom Sherman wrote:
    >
    > Courtesy of Sheldon Brown:
    >
    > Downshift - The act of shifting to a lower gear. In the case of derailer
    > gearing, this means shifting to a larger rear sprocket, or a smaller
    > chainwheel in front. [1]
    >
    > Upshift - The act of shifting to a higher gear. In the case of derailer
    > gearing, this means shifting to a smaller rear sprocket, or a larger
    > chainwheel. [2]
    >
    > [1] <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_d.html#downshift>,
    > [2] <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_u-v.html#upshift>.
    >



    Thanks. Replace 'up' with 'down' and 'down' with 'up' in my original
    post :)
     
  20. Tuschinski

    Tuschinski New Member

    Joined:
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    *amused*

    If Upshifting is doable while braking with Shimano, it seems downshifting is harder.

    BUT Peter;

    Altough downshifting is easy with Campa while braking, explain to me how Upshifting with Campa while braking is easier as downshifting with Shimano *considering they are aprox the same levers*. Playing the devil's advocate (I prefer Campa, but some ppl here are just fanatics), I think upshifting while braking is a lot more important as down shifting. In this you might even say Shimano has a tiny advantage:)

    Oh and about the trimming: Get the bike checked as Shimano front shifting does have sufficient trimming options. I never ran into the problems you mentioned.
     
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