Newbie question: Bar-end vs. Brake-Levers?

(Bryanska) said:

Hey I was looking at a new road-style bike, and see two new styles of
brake levers (new compared to my Schwinn Tempo's downtubes).

What are the differences and advantages of bar-end shifters on the
downtube, vs. little fingertip shifters inside the brake levers?

If I build a bike, I hafta choose one.

I go with bar ends for money, simplicity. I've ridden brifters and can
see the attraction. Sort of like a faster computer- I have no real
need for one, but know that if I got one I'd be hesitant to go back.
Try both and see how they feel to you.

Try as I will to find them unrepulsive, I find the Shimano STI cables
butt ugly. Looks like a mechanical grafting job gone bad, no matter
how often they redesign and smooth out the top cap. For the sake of a
more attractive world, please go Campy if you go to the brifters 🙂

[email hidden] (Bryanska) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

What are the differences and advantages of bar-end shifters on the
downtube, vs. little fingertip shifters inside the brake levers?

Bar-end is different from downtube. Downtube is the simplest and was the
standard for many decades, but many people don't like them because you have
to take your hands off the handlebar to shift.

Shifters at the ends of your handlebars are the next simplest. The main
problem is that if you have narrow handlebars, your knees will hit the
shifters when you sprint or climb out of the saddle.

Brake lever shifters are the most common these days. They are also the
heaviest, most expensive, and most difficult to repair. They are only
marginally easier to use than bar-end shifters.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:01:23 +0000, Ken <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Shifters at the ends of your handlebars are the next simplest. The main
problem is that if you have narrow handlebars, your knees will hit the
shifters when you sprint or climb out of the saddle.

You can shorten the drops to make this less likely. For some reason
most of us (inc. me) don't think to do that :-)

Quoted message said:

Brake lever shifters are the most common these days. They are also the
heaviest, most expensive, and most difficult to repair. They are only
marginally easier to use than bar-end shifters.

And offer no friction mode for limping home if it all goes
pear-shaped. I'm not a huge fan of indexing on the front mech anyway,
so I am a bar-end fan.

I freely acknowledge that the current crop of brifters are more
reliable than the early ones, and very unlikely actually to let you
down on the road. But as a year-round commuter cyclist looking for
low maintenance, I prefer the simplicity of bar-ends, even if I
haven't yet had to switch to friction.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Bryanska" wrote...

Quoted message said:

Hey I was looking at a new road-style bike, and see two new styles of
brake levers (new compared to my Schwinn Tempo's downtubes).

What are the differences and advantages of bar-end shifters on the
downtube, vs. little fingertip shifters inside the brake levers?

If I build a bike, I hafta choose one.

Differences/advantages are more personal taste than anything else, IMO.

The old school downtube shifters were standard for racers for a long time
because they were lightweight, simple, and the shorter cable/cable housing
run made for more accurate shifting. Improvements in cables and cable
housings (teflon lined housings, more tightly wound cables) reduced the
difference between down tube mounted shifters and bar end shifters or
integrated shifter/brake lever setups. I used downtube mounted shifters
until about 3 years ago, and I liked the simplicity, especially with
friction shifters, but I didn't like the way my knees interfered with my
shifting hand if I tried to shift while pedaling. YMMV in this respect.

Bar end shifters are easier to use, you don't have to take your hands off
the bars to shift and the position of the levers gives you an indication of
what chain ring/cog you've selected. I find myself sliding my hand back on
the drops and shifting with the side of my hand or with my little finger,
which is really easy. I run friction only (no indexing) bar ends from
Rivendell (www.rivendellbicycles.com) and 8 speed cassettes on my touring
and commuting bikes. It's a very dependable setup, modern derailleurs and
cassettes shift so nicely that you don't really need indexing. 8 cogs in
back are plenty for touring/commuting, and 8 speed chains are cheaper and
more durable than 9 or 10 speed chains. There are still a lot of good
quality 8 speed cassettes on the market if you look.

Integrated shifters/brake levers (brifters) are really nice for fast,
workout type rides on a road racing bike, which is where I use them. With
modern dual pivot brakes and integrated shifters/brake levers you can ride
with your hands on the brake lever hoods and brake and shift without moving
your hands from the hoods. One drawback is that the brifters only work in
indexing mode, so if anything goes out of whack (kinked cable, cracked cable
housing, etc.), your choice of gears will be very limited until you repair
the problem. Another problem is that a combined shifter and brake lever
costs at least as much as the two separate components, so crashing is
expensive. Campagnolo makes a really nice, dependable, repairable
brake/shifting system.
--
mark

"mark" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Bar end shifters are easier to use, you don't have to take your hands off
the bars to shift and the position of the levers gives you an indication

of

Quoted message said:

what chain ring/cog you've selected. I find myself sliding my hand back

on

Quoted message said:

the drops and shifting with the side of my hand or with my little finger,
which is really easy. I run friction only (no indexing) bar ends from
Rivendell (www.rivendellbicycles.com) and 8 speed cassettes on my

touring

Quoted message said:

and commuting bikes. It's a very dependable setup, modern derailleurs and
cassettes shift so nicely that you don't really need indexing. 8 cogs in
back are plenty for touring/commuting, and 8 speed chains are cheaper and
more durable than 9 or 10 speed chains. There are still a lot of good
quality 8 speed cassettes on the market if you look.

I agree with everything you say, except I don't understand why you don't
run the rear shifter in indexed mode, it works so flawlessly.

"Peter Cole" wrote

Quoted message said:

I agree with everything you say, except I don't understand why you don't
run the rear shifter in indexed mode, it works so flawlessly.

1. It works just as flawlessly in friction mode
2. My road bike does have indexed shifters (Chorus Ergo Power derailleur and
brifters). It worked flawlessly for a few thousand miles, now that the
cables and housing are getting a little old I'm having trouble getting onto
the 10th cog. No such problem on the commuter and touring bikes, which are
in friction mode.
3. The shifters on my commuter and touring bikes don't *have* indexed mode.
They work so nicely that I don't see the need to get shifters with indexing
capability.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

"Peter Cole" wrote

Quoted message said:

I agree with everything you say, except I don't understand why you don't
run the rear shifter in indexed mode, it works so flawlessly.

1. It works just as flawlessly in friction mode
2. My road bike does have indexed shifters (Chorus Ergo Power derailleur
and brifters). It worked flawlessly for a few thousand miles, now that
the cables and housing are getting a little old I'm having trouble
getting onto the 10th cog. No such problem on the commuter and touring
bikes, which are in friction mode.
3. The shifters on my commuter and touring bikes don't *have* indexed
mode. They work so nicely that I don't see the need to get shifters
with indexing capability.

I'm not trying to knock your choice of friction shifters (I love their
simplicity), but:

1. With indexed rear bar-end shifter I've shifted easily while holding a
water bottle in my hand on more than one occasion, so I'd claim they
work "even more flawlessly".
2. From reports I've seen, it seems that indexed bar-ends are less likely
to run into problems even with old cables than brifteurs. I have yet to
experience any problems after several thousand miles. In any case, most
of them can be toggled to friction mode in this event.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Hey! I'm only fourteen, sickly 'n' thin
Tried all of my life just to grow me a chin
It popped out once, but my dad pushed it in. -- FZ

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:01:23 +0000, Ken <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

..

Quoted message said:

I freely acknowledge that the current crop of brifters are more
reliable than the early ones, and very unlikely actually to let you
down on the road. But as a year-round commuter cyclist looking for
low maintenance, I prefer the simplicity of bar-ends, even if I
haven't yet had to switch to friction.

Guy

I'm wondering about your experience with older brifters and (lack
of)reliability. I have ten year old chorus gruppo. ~35,000 miles on
the brifters. No failures and just one total adjustment (and new
cables) when I changed out my cassette. Other wise just normal
adjustment as part of routine maintainance. Is my experience out of
the ordinary?

I rode downtube friction shifters for 35 years---I love my brifters!

Brake-levers seem to be much better for me for fast riding and pace
lining. When with a group, I frequently ride on top of the brake
hoods. I think that most people find this to be the most comfortable
long term position. With your hands here, you can shift with the
brake-lever style without moving your hands. You can also shift with
this style while in the drops.

With the bar-ends you have to move your hands to the drops to shift.
For me this seems less safe. I do not want to move my hands
frequently. I also do not want to ride with my hands in the drops in
traffic. When on the streets and approaching a stop light, you will
want to shift to lower gears prior to stopping. You will not want to
change hand positions first and then shift.

To me brake levers are safer.

----Brink

"Brink" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

With the bar-ends you have to move your hands to the drops to shift.
For me this seems less safe. I do not want to move my hands
frequently. I also do not want to ride with my hands in the drops in
traffic. When on the streets and approaching a stop light, you will
want to shift to lower gears prior to stopping. You will not want to
change hand positions first and then shift.

To me brake levers are safer.

When I'm in traffic, I usually stay in the drops in case I need to brake
hard. Bar-end shifters allow you to keep both hands on the bars in these
circumstances which allows you to use both arms to counter the deceleration
forces. Twice, in the past year, I have seen riders go down in a pace line
when they took one hand off the bars to point out a pothole and hit another
unseen pothole, losing control of the bike. It's tough to counter any bar
torque one-handed. That's not a problem I have ever had with bar-ends.

mark said:

2. My road bike does have indexed shifters (Chorus Ergo Power derailleur and
brifters). It worked flawlessly for a few thousand miles, now that the
cables and housing are getting a little old I'm having trouble getting onto
the 10th cog. No such problem on the commuter and touring bikes, which are
in friction mode.

Is there a reason that replacing cables and housing is that big a
deal? I do it on all the bikes at least every other year as preventive
maintenance (probably because of experiences with tandems).

A few thousand doesn't seem a problem if we're talking 4-5,000. Not
sure that it should happen with good cable and housing at 2-3,000.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

(Brink) said:

With the bar-ends you have to move your hands to the drops to shift.

Can't see that being a real issue. People shifted downtube and bar-end
shifters in the middle of racing packs for a long, long time without
it being a major source of accidents. If you can move your hands and
shift with someone close enough to tap your shoulder, you can shift on
the road. From tandem experience, drinking from a water bottle seems
to be a bit more of an issue (even if you can choose when you do that)
than shifting in any of the normal positions.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On 5 Oct 2004 16:28:14 -0700, [email hidden] (gds) wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I'm wondering about your experience with older brifters and (lack
of)reliability. I have ten year old chorus gruppo. ~35,000 miles on
the brifters. No failures and just one total adjustment (and new
cables) when I changed out my cassette. Other wise just normal
adjustment as part of routine maintainance. Is my experience out of
the ordinary?

No, your experience is Campagnolo :-) I have not been able to verify
the story of a rider form my club who washed out of PBP after months
of training and qualifying due to a failure of their Shimano
flightdeck shifters. I am savage with bikes, though and quite like
the fact that bar-ends are at least as tough as I am.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University