No More Campagnolo Hubs?@##@!!

bfd said:

Saw this in the Serotta forum:

dbrk states:

Yesterday I spent a good, long time with my friend Hiroshi Iimura who many
of you know owns the Jitensha Studio in Berkeley. This is perhaps the most
unusual of bike shops that I've ever seen, more like Singer in Paris than
any other I know: just a few bikes, custom orders flowing through the door,
and only the occasional other bike being outfitted because only shop bikes
are sold. Anyway, Hiroshi told me that in Japan Camapagnolo is showing only
pre-built wheels and that we may not see hubs sold separately in the future.
While I can't confirm and don't mean to spread rumors, he was quite sure
that this was the way of the future, despite that it makes less sense than I
can fathom. Stranger things have befallen the bike industry.

Does anyone have a bead on Campagnolo's future notions. I suppose we'll find
out something in Vegas in a few weeks.

Wouldn't surprise me. Look how many groups are sold with OR without hubs.
David

bfd said:

Anyway, Hiroshi told me that in Japan Camapagnolo is showing only
pre-built wheels and that we may not see hubs sold separately in the future.
While I can't confirm and don't mean to spread rumors, he was quite sure
that this was the way of the future, despite that it makes less sense than I
can fathom. Stranger things have befallen the bike industry.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have a bead on Campagnolo's future notions. I suppose we'll find
out something in Vegas in a few weeks.

Campagnolo 2007 range includes new hubs for Record, Centaur, Veloce and
Mirage, so that doesn't seem too likely to happen in the near future.
See www.campagnolo.com .

-as

bfd said:

Saw this in the Serotta forum:

dbrk states:

Yesterday I spent a good, long time with my friend Hiroshi Iimura who many
of you know owns the Jitensha Studio in Berkeley. This is perhaps the most
unusual of bike shops that I've ever seen, more like Singer in Paris than
any other I know: just a few bikes, custom orders flowing through the door,
and only the occasional other bike being outfitted because only shop bikes
are sold. Anyway, Hiroshi told me that in Japan Camapagnolo is showing only
pre-built wheels and that we may not see hubs sold separately in the future.
While I can't confirm and don't mean to spread rumors, he was quite sure
that this was the way of the future, despite that it makes less sense than I
can fathom. Stranger things have befallen the bike industry.

Does anyone have a bead on Campagnolo's future notions. I suppose we'll find
out something in Vegas in a few weeks.

It is clear they are going in the direction of emphasizing complete wheelsets. I
am very certain that there will always be hubs from them. Simply because they
don't want to lose a customer for an entire group because the wheel line didn't
include some particular need like touring, cyclocross or whatever at some
particular price point.

Ron

I would find it very hard to believe that "still supplies replacement
parts for their components" Campagnolo would stop selling individual
components! My guess is that this is nothing more than a rumor.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

RonSonic said:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:40:39 -0700, "bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

It is clear they are going in the direction of emphasizing complete wheelsets. I
am very certain that there will always be hubs from them. Simply because they
don't want to lose a customer for an entire group because the wheel line didn't
include some particular need like touring, cyclocross or whatever at some
particular price point.

Ron

I ride with a racing club of 400+ members that have discretionary $
for bicycles. A very large percentage of their bicycles have switched
to factory, boutique wheels. In the past months riders have become
disenchanted with their wheelsets, especially for everyday riding and
training. Somehow, I have become the default wheel builder and I'm
supplying at least a set of wheels/week. The wheels are very
conventionally built. I am not a gifted builder and have done it only
for 3 years.

I'm using Velocity Aerohead rims, 32 OCR/28F and 2.0/1.8 spokes and
100kgF. Hubs of their choice. Lots are Velocity hubs but DA and
Record are also popular. My favorite for value is a Shimano 10sp 105
rear and Velocity 28 hole front. In many cases the wheelset costs
them less than repairing their boutique wheels.

The riders are saying they are wheels that you just ride and don't
worry about. They also make claims of "solid feel on the road",
"great cornering", and "straight tracking", all of which have nothing
to do with the design.

I thought handmade wheels were going to die like downtube/barend
shifters. I now think there will be a substantial residual market for
old fashioned wheels and very few people that know how to build them.

bfd said:

Saw this in the Serotta forum:

dbrk states:

Yesterday I spent a good, long time with my friend Hiroshi Iimura who many
of you know owns the Jitensha Studio in Berkeley. This is perhaps the most
unusual of bike shops that I've ever seen, more like Singer in Paris than
any other I know: just a few bikes, custom orders flowing through the door,
and only the occasional other bike being outfitted because only shop bikes
are sold. Anyway, Hiroshi told me that in Japan Camapagnolo is showing only
pre-built wheels and that we may not see hubs sold separately in the future.
While I can't confirm and don't mean to spread rumors, he was quite sure
that this was the way of the future, despite that it makes less sense than I
can fathom. Stranger things have befallen the bike industry.

Does anyone have a bead on Campagnolo's future notions. I suppose we'll find
out something in Vegas in a few weeks.

If a hub offered also has a prebuilt wheel based around it, you will
see the hub. BUT less hubs are certainly on the horizon for Campagnolo
and probably shimano as well. No hubs from Sram or FSA nor will there
be any. Kinda like as if bolts of cloth no longer sold and the only
suits were from Men's Warehouse. When hubs are gone, so am I from this
wacky biz...

Antti Salonen said:

bfd said:

Anyway, Hiroshi told me that in Japan Camapagnolo is showing only
pre-built wheels and that we may not see hubs sold separately in the future.
While I can't confirm and don't mean to spread rumors, he was quite sure
that this was the way of the future, despite that it makes less sense than I
can fathom. Stranger things have befallen the bike industry.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have a bead on Campagnolo's future notions. I suppose we'll find
out something in Vegas in a few weeks.

Campagnolo 2007 range includes new hubs for Record, Centaur, Veloce and
Mirage, so that doesn't seem too likely to happen in the near future.
See www.campagnolo.com .

-as

Also Chorus but 'new' they aren't. Centaur and below are Veloce hubs
with different graphics and 'colors'. Chorus and Recortd have a new one
piece freehub...no 28h Record hubs tho-

Paul Kopit said:

RonSonic said:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:40:39 -0700, "bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

It is clear they are going in the direction of emphasizing complete wheelsets. I
am very certain that there will always be hubs from them. Simply because they
don't want to lose a customer for an entire group because the wheel line didn't
include some particular need like touring, cyclocross or whatever at some
particular price point.

Ron

I ride with a racing club of 400+ members that have discretionary $
for bicycles. A very large percentage of their bicycles have switched
to factory, boutique wheels. In the past months riders have become
disenchanted with their wheelsets, especially for everyday riding and
training. Somehow, I have become the default wheel builder and I'm
supplying at least a set of wheels/week. The wheels are very
conventionally built. I am not a gifted builder and have done it only
for 3 years.

I'm using Velocity Aerohead rims, 32 OCR/28F and 2.0/1.8 spokes and
100kgF. Hubs of their choice. Lots are Velocity hubs but DA and
Record are also popular. My favorite for value is a Shimano 10sp 105
rear and Velocity 28 hole front. In many cases the wheelset costs
them less than repairing their boutique wheels.

The riders are saying they are wheels that you just ride and don't
worry about. They also make claims of "solid feel on the road",
"great cornering", and "straight tracking", all of which have nothing
to do with the design.

I thought handmade wheels were going to die like downtube/barend
shifters. I now think there will be a substantial residual market for
old fashioned wheels and very few people that know how to build them.

We still build 400or so wheels per year...I doubt any shop of our size
is going to sell 200 Kry-for-me-siriums sets....OEM and MO is all about
prebuilts, where the wheel 'factory' makes offers that frame builders
can't refuse(can you say-dumping!!)...so lots of
trekspecializedgiantcannondalefelt...come with this crappola. As long
as they are built so poorly, with such crappy hubs, wheelbuilders will
have work..

In article <[email hidden]>,

Paul Kopit said:

RonSonic said:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:40:39 -0700, "bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

It is clear they are going in the direction of emphasizing complete wheelsets. I
am very certain that there will always be hubs from them. Simply because they
don't want to lose a customer for an entire group because the wheel line didn't
include some particular need like touring, cyclocross or whatever at some
particular price point.

Ron

I ride with a racing club of 400+ members that have discretionary $
for bicycles. A very large percentage of their bicycles have switched
to factory, boutique wheels. In the past months riders have become
disenchanted with their wheelsets, especially for everyday riding and
training. Somehow, I have become the default wheel builder and I'm
supplying at least a set of wheels/week. The wheels are very
conventionally built. I am not a gifted builder and have done it only
for 3 years.

I'm using Velocity Aerohead rims, 32 OCR/28F and 2.0/1.8 spokes and
100kgF. Hubs of their choice. Lots are Velocity hubs but DA and
Record are also popular. My favorite for value is a Shimano 10sp 105
rear and Velocity 28 hole front. In many cases the wheelset costs
them less than repairing their boutique wheels.

The riders are saying they are wheels that you just ride and don't
worry about. They also make claims of "solid feel on the road",
"great cornering", and "straight tracking", all of which have nothing
to do with the design.

I thought handmade wheels were going to die like downtube/barend
shifters. I now think there will be a substantial residual market for
old fashioned wheels and very few people that know how to build them.

Congratulations for your success.

No need for the pessimism. I think that anybody who works
on his bike, and discovers that conventional wheels have
some advantages will learn to build their own wheels. The
only thing that stops anyone is the initial sense of the
unknown and fears that wheel building is difficult.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Paul Kopit said:

RonSonic said:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:40:39 -0700, "bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

It is clear they are going in the direction of emphasizing complete wheelsets. I
am very certain that there will always be hubs from them. Simply because they
don't want to lose a customer for an entire group because the wheel line didn't
include some particular need like touring, cyclocross or whatever at some
particular price point.

Ron

I ride with a racing club of 400+ members that have discretionary $
for bicycles. A very large percentage of their bicycles have switched
to factory, boutique wheels. In the past months riders have become
disenchanted with their wheelsets, especially for everyday riding and
training. Somehow, I have become the default wheel builder and I'm
supplying at least a set of wheels/week. The wheels are very
conventionally built. I am not a gifted builder and have done it only
for 3 years.

I'm using Velocity Aerohead rims, 32 OCR/28F and 2.0/1.8 spokes and
100kgF. Hubs of their choice. Lots are Velocity hubs but DA and
Record are also popular. My favorite for value is a Shimano 10sp 105
rear and Velocity 28 hole front. In many cases the wheelset costs
them less than repairing their boutique wheels.

The riders are saying they are wheels that you just ride and don't
worry about. They also make claims of "solid feel on the road",
"great cornering", and "straight tracking", all of which have nothing
to do with the design.

I thought handmade wheels were going to die like downtube/barend
shifters. I now think there will be a substantial residual market for
old fashioned wheels and very few people that know how to build them.

Congratulations for your success.

No need for the pessimism. I think that anybody who works
on his bike, and discovers that conventional wheels have
some advantages will learn to build their own wheels. The
only thing that stops anyone is the initial sense of the
unknown and fears that wheel building is difficult.

--
Michael Press

Doubt 'anybody who works on his bike' is going to build wheels...some
will, but not that many in my experience. I agree wheel building is not
'difficult', but I wouldn't describe it as easy either.

On 17 Sep 2006 06:46:39 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Paul Kopit said:

RonSonic said:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:40:39 -0700, "bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

It is clear they are going in the direction of emphasizing complete wheelsets. I
am very certain that there will always be hubs from them. Simply because they
don't want to lose a customer for an entire group because the wheel line didn't
include some particular need like touring, cyclocross or whatever at some
particular price point.

Ron

I ride with a racing club of 400+ members that have discretionary $
for bicycles. A very large percentage of their bicycles have switched
to factory, boutique wheels. In the past months riders have become
disenchanted with their wheelsets, especially for everyday riding and
training. Somehow, I have become the default wheel builder and I'm
supplying at least a set of wheels/week. The wheels are very
conventionally built. I am not a gifted builder and have done it only
for 3 years.

I'm using Velocity Aerohead rims, 32 OCR/28F and 2.0/1.8 spokes and
100kgF. Hubs of their choice. Lots are Velocity hubs but DA and
Record are also popular. My favorite for value is a Shimano 10sp 105
rear and Velocity 28 hole front. In many cases the wheelset costs
them less than repairing their boutique wheels.

The riders are saying they are wheels that you just ride and don't
worry about. They also make claims of "solid feel on the road",
"great cornering", and "straight tracking", all of which have nothing
to do with the design.

I thought handmade wheels were going to die like downtube/barend
shifters. I now think there will be a substantial residual market for
old fashioned wheels and very few people that know how to build them.

We still build 400or so wheels per year...I doubt any shop of our size
is going to sell 200 Kry-for-me-siriums sets....OEM and MO is all about
prebuilts, where the wheel 'factory' makes offers that frame builders
can't refuse(can you say-dumping!!)...so lots of
trekspecializedgiantcannondalefelt...come with this crappola. As long
as they are built so poorly, with such crappy hubs, wheelbuilders will
have work..

It seems to be a question of expectations and use. I'd expect the average
"cycling enthusiast" will ride about 100 - 200 miles a week when the weather's
nice. If he gets 5,000 miles then his expectations are met and the wheels will
have lasted as long as all the other overpriced [censored] in his life.

Oddly enough, there seems to be a very large number of people who do not
understand that cycling is an inexpensive sport. The startup costs are not
insubstantial but everything that doesn't last forever can usually be repaired
or replaced inexpensively*. Not knowing that cycling is inexpensive, they are
prepared to pay another $300-800 every year or two for a wheelset.

* Yeah, I know, but STI is the exception.

Ron

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I agree wheel building is not
'difficult', but I wouldn't describe it as easy either.

It's a lot like painting and playing chess in that regard. "Easy to
do", but takes a while to get good at it.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I agree wheel building is not
'difficult', but I wouldn't describe it as easy either.

It's a lot like painting and playing chess in that regard. "Easy to
do", but takes a while to get good at it.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Yep, lots of people build wheels...not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...

IMHO, the move towards factory-built wheels is just another step in
the relentless push to take revenue streams away from bike shops and
put them into the pockets of component makers. And, this will help to
cause a new wave of bikeshop closures and bankrupcies. LBS's that
promote factory wheels are run by chumps in my opinion.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mark Hickey said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

I agree wheel building is not
'difficult', but I wouldn't describe it as easy either.

It's a lot like painting and playing chess in that regard. "Easy to
do", but takes a while to get good at it.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Yep, lots of people build wheels...not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...

I call anyone who builds his own wheels a 'wheelbuilder'.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mark Hickey said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> I agree wheel building is not
>'difficult', but I wouldn't describe it as easy either.

It's a lot like painting and playing chess in that regard. "Easy to
do", but takes a while to get good at it.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Yep, lots of people build wheels...not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...

I call anyone who builds his own wheels a 'wheelbuilder'.

.... and anyone who can cook microwave popcorn a "chef"? ;-)

I suppose it's all semantics though - at the very least, there are
"wheelbuilders" and then there are "wheelbuilders" (just doesn't work
in type, does it?).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:33:20 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mark Hickey wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > I agree wheel building is not
> >'difficult', but I wouldn't describe it as easy either.
>
> It's a lot like painting and playing chess in that regard. "Easy to
> do", but takes a while to get good at it.
>
> Mark Hickey
> Habanero Cycles
> http://www.habcycles.com
> Home of the $795 ti frame

Yep, lots of people build wheels...not a lot of 'wheelbuilders'...

I call anyone who builds his own wheels a 'wheelbuilder'.

... and anyone who can cook microwave popcorn a "chef"? ;-)

I suppose it's all semantics though - at the very least, there are
"wheelbuilders" and then there are "wheelbuilders" (just doesn't work
in type, does it?).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Dear Mark,

Pigs is pigs.

http://www.ellisparkerbutler.info/epb/pigsispigs_html.asp

Cheers,

E.P. Butler

Donald Gillies said:

IMHO, the move towards factory-built wheels is just another step in
the relentless push to take revenue streams away from bike shops and
put them into the pockets of component makers. And, this will help to
cause a new wave of bikeshop closures and bankrupcies. LBS's that
promote factory wheels are run by chumps in my opinion.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

AND if they charge for their labor, that is, charge to make wheels,
they make a larger $ margin, percentage-wise. Most bike shops don't
ever consider service after tha dsale of a lot of these wheels...and
some even go so far to charge for a truing of a new wheel purchased at
some LBS...

Donald Gillies said:

IMHO, the move towards factory-built wheels is just another step in
the relentless push to take revenue streams away from bike shops and
put them into the pockets of component makers. And, this will help to
cause a new wave of bikeshop closures and bankrupcies. LBS's that
promote factory wheels are run by chumps in my opinion.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

AND if they charge for their labor, that is, charge to make wheels,
they make a larger $ margin, percentage-wise. Most bike shops don't
ever consider service after tha dsale of a lot of these wheels...and
some even go so far to charge for a truing of a new wheel purchased at
some LBS...