Not 100% sure about this?

PiledHigher said:

http://www.bv.com.au/inform.php?a=7&b=174&c=1629

BV think they are doing a good thing, but they have been misguided in
the past, lik looking for more islands in beach rd to allow cyclists to
cross the road and use the bike path.

In this instance, I don't see much downside. It isolates bikes from
traffic, and that can only be a good thing.

The only problem I can see arising from this is ignoramuses who think
"have to get next to the curb", and hence end up parking in the bike
lane itself. That's a pretty big one, too; without very clear markings,
and possibly even a fair amount of driver education, I'd expect to see a
significant number of infringements of this setup.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@ to usenet".

"PiledHigher" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

BV think they are doing a good thing, but they have been misguided in
the past, lik looking for more islands in beach rd to allow cyclists to
cross the road and use the bike path.

"Using bicycles for trips in congested parts of the city is like switching
from dial up to broadband."

So does this mean once I've used up my road quota for the month I'll be
charged through the nose, or simply have my tyres let down so I can only
ride at walking pace? Gotta watch those Bigpond bike plans, you'll be
slugged for riding in both the forward AND backward directions..

cheers,
GPL
:gone phishin':

Stuart Lamble said:

<snip>

The only problem I can see arising from this is ignoramuses who think
"have to get next to the curb", and hence end up parking in the bike
lane itself. That's a pretty big one, too; without very clear markings,
and possibly even a fair amount of driver education, I'd expect to see a
significant number of infringements of this setup.

As I understand it there is a barrier between the bike lane & parking space.

Bikesoiler said:

As I understand it there is a barrier between the bike lane & parking space.

None in the picture with the article?

What about at driveways where the driver is turning between two parked cars and a car appears. Saw a motorbike taken out this way in stopped traffic, where are car turned between two stopped cars without looking to see if the second lane is clear.

Just beacuse it increases the safety, we here know that cycling is mostly safe, those that start cycling are only doing so because they perceive it to be safer - not sure that these are the best judges of what is an isn't safe.

Also reinforces the fact that cyclists shouldn't be on the road and need special facilities.

Great idea. Especially when passengers open car doors and don't bother
looking for cyclist.

"PiledHigher" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.bv.com.au/inform.php?a=7&b=174&c=1629

BV think they are doing a good thing, but they have been misguided in
the past, lik looking for more islands in beach rd to allow cyclists to
cross the road and use the bike path.

--
PiledHigher

PiledHigher said:

None in the picture with the article?

What about at driveways where the driver is turning between two parked cars and a car appears. Saw a motorbike taken out this way in stopped traffic, where are car turned between two stopped cars without looking to see if the second lane is clear.

Just beacuse it increases the safety, we here know that cycling is mostly safe, those that start cycling are only doing so because they perceive it to be safer - not sure that these are the best judges of what is an isn't safe.

Also reinforces the fact that cyclists shouldn't be on the road and need special facilities.

Not to mention kids getting out of the 'safe' side of the car... the pram being parked in the lane while the little one is being strapped in... people waiting in the lane for the driver to unlock the car door... increased pedestrian traffic crossing the lane from car to pathway...

ali

PiledHigher said:

bv.com.auinform.phpOpen ↗

BV think they are doing a good thing, but they have been misguided in the past, lik looking for more islands in beach rd to allow cyclists to cross the road and use the bike path.

I'm not in favor of it for a number of reasons.

1) Decades of habit means that motorists will open the near side door without checking for cyclists. It's just not expected that there's going to be a hazard when stepping out to the kerb.

2) Pedestrians will spill out in to the bike path, especially ones that aren't used much.

3) Sends the wrong message about cycling. I don't have the cite handy but I've read that the rarest accident is a collision from the rear by a car; essentially what we have here is a proposal to guard against the least common cycling / motorist incident.

I think the whole idea's bonkers, but then I'm not much in favor of on-road bike lanes anyway so probably not the best person to ask :-p

oh... to put the car vs bike thing into perspective in regard to what some
people are going through...

http://tinyurl.com/bccnw

Some people had to listen to him play geeeettarrrr!! AGHghhh...

cheers,
GPL

PiledHigher said:

http://www.bv.com.au/inform.php?a=7&b=174&c=1629

BV think they are doing a good thing, but they have been misguided in
the past, lik looking for more islands in beach rd to allow cyclists to
cross the road and use the bike path.

Maybe cfsmtb or FD could answer this, but I'm wondering how much input
whatever the local BUG for that area would have on the solution. The
article mentions City of Melbourne, State Gov and BV. I was wondering if
the local BUG was just omitted from the kudos list or omitted altogeher,
which would leave me wondering how many people who actually ride that
stretch had any input into the solution.

DaveB

PiledHigher said:

bv.com.auinform.phpOpen ↗

BV think they are doing a good thing, but they have been misguided in the past, lik looking for more islands in beach rd to allow cyclists to cross the road and use the bike path.

hmmm. initial thawts...

this can be screwed up by jut one car parking the 'old way' next to the curb.

Its only gonna take one cyclist/ped collision to get today/tonight all over it

What's wrong with doing it on the outside of the cars???

$550k for neglible benefit along a stretch of... 500m??? is a huge waste of money. That equates to a bridge/siding overpass equivalent or a zillion other things far more benficial.

Hey, all cycling infrastructure is GOOD. some is just bette rthan others...

Curbs to the left of me, parked cars to the right of me!!!

Thank god for bicycle helmet laws!!

DaveB said:

Maybe cfsmtb or FD could answer this, but I'm wondering how much input
whatever the local BUG for that area would have on the solution. The
article mentions City of Melbourne, State Gov and BV. I was wondering if
the local BUG was just omitted from the kudos list or omitted altogeher,
which would leave me wondering how many people who actually ride that
stretch had any input into the solution.

DaveB

just received cc'd copy of rather irate email sent off by MBUG people to BV wondering why (yet again) they werent consulted.

i think 'Kudos' is trademarked by BV (lordy knows if you stand still long enough BV will slap a trademark on you!)
🙄

FlyingDutch™

alison_b said:

PiledHigher said:

None in the picture with the article?

What about at driveways where the driver is turning between two parked
cars and a car appears. Saw a motorbike taken out this way in stopped
traffic, where are car turned between two stopped cars without looking
to see if the second lane is clear.

Just beacuse it increases the safety, we here know that cycling is
mostly safe, those that start cycling are only doing so because they
perceive it to be safer - not sure that these are the best judges of
what is an isn't safe.

Also reinforces the fact that cyclists shouldn't be on the road and
need special facilities.

Not to mention kids getting out of the 'safe' side of the car... the
pram being parked in the lane while the little one is being strapped
in... people waiting in the lane for the driver to unlock the car
door... increased pedestrian traffic crossing the lane from car to
pathway...

how about the addition of tha big phat guard rail =)

open the door into the rail once of twice and you won't do it again.
then the rail can be taken down after a while. or moved. they'll learn.

i've gotta find one of those air horns in a bottle.
had one on my bike in london, but can't remember what the damn
thing was called.

cheers,

kim

DaveB said:

Maybe cfsmtb or FD could answer this, but I'm wondering how much input
whatever the local BUG for that area would have on the solution. The
article mentions City of Melbourne, State Gov and BV. I was wondering if
the local BUG was just omitted from the kudos list or omitted altogeher,
which would leave me wondering how many people who actually ride that
stretch had any input into the solution.

DaveB

That's a damn good question. There is a Melbourne Bicycle Users Group.
melbournebug.orgmelbournebug.orgOpen ↗

Contact me offlist for more if you wish, or refer to FD's latest response to this thread. cfsmtb[AT]gmail[DOT]com

On 2005-09-02, Kim Hawtin (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

how about the addition of tha big phat guard rail =)

open the door into the rail once of twice and you won't do it again.
then the rail can be taken down after a while. or moved. they'll learn.

i've gotta find one of those air horns in a bottle.
had one on my bike in london, but can't remember what the damn
thing was called.

Air zound.

But you really want a truck horn and a BBQ gas canister full of
compressed air. It'll fit on teh rack.

--
TimC
'Vegetarian' -- it's an old Indian word meaning 'lousy hunter'.
-- Red Green

Kim Hawtin said:

i've gotta find one of those air horns in a bottle.
had one on my bike in london, but can't remember what the damn
thing was called.

cheers,

kim

Air Zound?

SteveA

TimC said:

On 2005-09-02, Kim Hawtin (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

i've gotta find one of those air horns in a bottle.
had one on my bike in london, but can't remember what the damn
thing was called.

Air zound.

I had a Air Zound for a year, then it broke. Canberra pedestrians ignored it! 🙁

As for the foreign bikelane, where's the separation - it's just going to be one big shared path. I don't see aussie pedestrians respecting the bike section.
So vehicular cyclists will use the road instead. That's value for 500,000. Not.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Plodder" == Plodder <CORNED BEEF@NOSPAM> writes:

Plodder> I think that if these bike lanes are to be introduced in
Plodder> Australia what needs to change is the cultural
Plodder> environment.

Mucho snippage. What he said :-)

Frank, you in Melbourne? PubBug at the Mountain Goat on Friday, six
o'clock. Love to meet you if you can make it.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Euan said:

>>>>> "Plodder" == Plodder <CORNED BEEF@NOSPAM> writes:
Plodder> I think that if these bike lanes are to be introduced in
Plodder> Australia what needs to change is the cultural
Plodder> environment.

Mucho snippage. What he said :-)

Frank, you in Melbourne? PubBug at the Mountain Goat on Friday, six
o'clock. Love to meet you if you can make it.

Last I heard he was in Germany! 🙂
Did you make it back to Oz in one piece Plodder?
Oh, yes, just checked email.. he was heading back to Oz a week or so ago.

I'm going to head north from Heidelberg to "Worms", then to "Mainz" and then cycle that popular section of the Rhine with all the castles to "Koblenz". Then head south towards "Trier", then into Luxembourg, then NW through Belgium again towards the ferry at Ostend, into England and towards home in London.
That's the "plan" anyway and we all know how well they work..

hippy