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nutririon, glycogen, fat, etc, question

Started by brianj · · Last activity · 8 posts · 194 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
9 October 2007
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10 October 2007
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brianj
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  1. Tell me your theories (or knowledge, if you have some). Let's say you
    find yourself about 10-15 theoretical lbs overweight because you had
    to stop running for 2.5 years and you are almost completely
    undisciplined about the quantity of food you eat.

    So you get back to running, but just can't seem to shake the weight.
    So you go on a diet that consists largely of vegetable soup. It's
    pretty good soup, theoretically. You are eating really only a few
    hundred (maybe 1000) calories a day, and running, say 3-4 miles X 5
    days. You run in the morning. The rest of the day, most days, is
    pretty sedentary, but there's yard work to do, and other things. As
    you might expect, you are feeling a little weak late in the day,
    especially if you exert yourself. Your glycogen stores have to be
    about wiped out. No?

    So you go to sleep (and dream of really great food). It seems to me
    that you are not consuming enough carbs to replace your muscle-stored
    glycogen. Is there a physiological mechanism that will replace your
    muscle glycogen using some of the 15 lbs of extra fat you have stored
    up? Will your body--*can* your body suck up a little of that fat
    every night, and feed your muscles with it for the next morning's
    run? Or is it just a really bad idea to lose weight using such
    measures while running?

    brianj

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    brianj said:

    Or is it just a really bad idea to lose weight using such measures
    while running?

    It's a really bad idea. You're not going to replenish glycogen at
    night; in fact, one reason to eat breakfast before running is to replace
    liver glycogen that's lost while sleeping.

    I've probably taken in more calories per day since I started running a
    year and a half ago than I had been eating before then, but I've lost
    about twenty pounds since I started running.

    --
    Crossing the starting line is 90%.
    Crossing the finish line is the other 90%.

  3. brianj said:

    Tell me your theories (or knowledge, if you have some). Let's say you
    find yourself about 10-15 theoretical lbs overweight because you had
    to stop running for 2.5 years and you are almost completely
    undisciplined about the quantity of food you eat.

    So you get back to running, but just can't seem to shake the weight.
    So you go on a diet that consists largely of vegetable soup. It's
    pretty good soup, theoretically. You are eating really only a few
    hundred (maybe 1000) calories a day, and running, say 3-4 miles X 5
    days. You run in the morning. The rest of the day, most days, is
    pretty sedentary, but there's yard work to do, and other things. As
    you might expect, you are feeling a little weak late in the day,
    especially if you exert yourself. Your glycogen stores have to be
    about wiped out. No?

    So you go to sleep (and dream of really great food). It seems to me
    that you are not consuming enough carbs to replace your muscle-stored
    glycogen. Is there a physiological mechanism that will replace your
    muscle glycogen using some of the 15 lbs of extra fat you have stored
    up? Will your body--*can* your body suck up a little of that fat
    every night, and feed your muscles with it for the next morning's
    run? Or is it just a really bad idea to lose weight using such
    measures while running?

    brianj

    Stop being a fat pig, and STFU.

  4. brianj said:

    [snip]

    So you go to sleep (and dream of really great food). It seems to me
    that you are not consuming enough carbs to replace your muscle-stored
    glycogen. Is there a physiological mechanism that will replace your
    muscle glycogen using some of the 15 lbs of extra fat you have stored
    up? Will your body--*can* your body suck up a little of that fat
    every night, and feed your muscles with it for the next morning's
    run? Or is it just a really bad idea to lose weight using such
    measures while running?

    Your body can't produce net carbohydrate from fat so you can't
    replenish glycogen (carbohydrate) from stored body fat.

  5. brianj said:

    Tell me your theories (or knowledge, if you have some).

    Oh good, as long as you're OK with theories and not just double-blind
    study results, here's what I make of my experience + that of some
    other runners, athletes, and couch potatoes:

    - Best to combine exercise and diet, so you're on the right track.

    - Self-defeating to go overboard on the calorie deficit. As I
    understand it, your body will compensate by lowering metabolism, which
    means [a] your physical and mental performance suffers, and [b] your
    calorie gap narrows anyway so you don't get the benefit of your
    starvation, and [c] when you go back to "normal" eating you'll gain
    weight because your body has adapted to a deficit.

    - If you're counting calories in & out, common wisdom is shoot for a
    deficit of ~500. My theory and practice says that most of us with
    normally functioning hunger mechanisms and metabolisms and a
    reasonable dietary practices probably don't need to count. Especially
    if you're running just about daily too. Eat mostly "healthy" foods
    with just the occasional splurge as needed/desired. Pay attention to
    portion sizes. But don't starve yourself.

    - Macronutrient balance matters, though like counting calories you
    probably only need to be precise if you're OCD or your body demands it
    for some odd reason. Get a balance of protein, fat, and carbs in
    every meal (well, the closer to "every" the better). I've had good
    success with balances close to The Zone when I wasn't running too much
    - felt and functioned better, physically and mentally, than on
    otherwise decent but less balance-aware eating prior to that. On
    higher mileage add more carbs, but 15-20 MPW shouldn't require major
    dietary adjustments.

    - Timing matters. Make sure you eat ASAP after each run, ideally
    within a half hour. And this meal should ideally have more of your
    daily carbs, other meals a bit less. Right after exercise your body
    is primed to store carbs as glycogen, other times not so much.

    - On the running side, obviously volume matters - rule of thumb is
    ~100 kcal/M. While I can't prove it, I believe long marathon-type
    training runs may help disproportionately, as if your body normally
    tries to just get in X extra calories but beyond some threshold it
    admits defeat and lets some of that fat burn without replenishing it.
    And I even more strongly believe intensity matters - one or more
    harder runs in a week (I'd suggest no more than one on a base of 20
    MPW) seems to rev up the metabolism.

    - If you have the time and motivation, lots of walking is good too.
    It'll also burn some calories and maybe even help a bit with your
    running (though obviously more running = more specific, intense, and
    calorific per minute).

  6. Charlie Pendejo said:


    - Self-defeating to go overboard on the calorie deficit. As I
    understand it, your body will compensate by lowering metabolism, which
    means [a] your physical and mental performance suffers,

    Just look at 140lb Knebel, as proof of that.

  7. "brianj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So you go to sleep (and dream of really great food). It seems to me
    that you are not consuming enough carbs to replace your muscle-stored
    glycogen. Is there a physiological mechanism that will replace your
    muscle glycogen using some of the 15 lbs of extra fat you have stored
    up?

    CP's post was spot on!!!!

    And reiterate, no, fat can not make glycogen i.e. carbs. A small deficit
    such as 500 Kcal is a good number and you usually don't have do too much
    to make that happen. I'd bet if you just stop some of the simple carb
    foods( you know the sugar loaded stuff that tastes good) 500 is not a
    big sacrifice.

    In addition don't forget you do/can put on muscle weight so while your
    anxious to lose the extra you may be getting stronger. The rest will
    have to take some time. Eat a little less or exercise a bit more or
    both(but carefully), and it will come off. Can you say patience? 😉

    Quoted message said:

    Will your body--*can* your body suck up a little of that fat
    every night, and feed your muscles with it for the next morning's
    run?

    Nope!

    Quoted message said:

    Or is it just a really bad idea to lose weight using such
    measures while running?

    Yes!

    -Doug

  8. Doug Freese said:

    "brianj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So you go to sleep (and dream of really great food). It seems to me
    that you are not consuming enough carbs to replace your muscle-stored
    glycogen. Is there a physiological mechanism that will replace your
    muscle glycogen using some of the 15 lbs of extra fat you have stored
    up?

    CP's post was spot on!!!!

    And reiterate, no, fat can not make glycogen i.e. carbs. A small deficit
    such as 500 Kcal is a good number and you usually don't have do too much
    to make that happen. I'd bet if you just stop some of the simple carb
    foods( you know the sugar loaded stuff that tastes good) 500 is not a
    big sacrifice.

    I have no doubt that you are correct. When I konked out (Jan. '04;
    achilles tendon, surgery, etc) it was following a couple of
    marathons. When I am running like that, I can eat just about
    everything I see, and it's OK. When I got shut down, I gained 17 lbs
    in about 2 months. After years of eating without discipline, I just
    find it really, really hard to be disciplined. So you might think
    this vegetable soup thing would make me want to puke. But the thing
    is, I am always hungry enough that it tastes good. My grandmother in
    law used to say: Hunger is the best sauce.

    I have a doctor friend who told me once that you have a recognized
    eating disorder if exercise so that you can eat more. I told him I
    suffered from that disorder. He said he did too.

    Quoted message said:

    In addition don't forget you do/can put on muscle weight so while your
    anxious to lose the extra you may be getting stronger. The rest will
    have to take some time. Eat a little less or exercise a bit more or
    both(but carefully), and it will come off. Can you say patience? 😉

    Not very well, no. But I will try.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Will your body--*can* your body suck up a little of that fat
    every night, and feed your muscles with it for the next morning's
    run?

    Nope!

    Quoted message said:

    Or is it just a really bad idea to lose weight using such
    measures while running?



    Thanks Doug and others.

    brianj

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