Obesity and urban sprawl

DaveB said:

Are people in the 'burbs obese because of the sprwal discouraging
exercise, or do they move their because they don't want to exercise?

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070120/bob9.asp

Another aspect - humans are genetically inclined to lay on the lard via overeating, but most of us no longer have a active lifestyle (ie: being chased by other animals trying to eat you, natural shortages etc) where these eating behaviours are needed for survival.

cfsmtb said:

DaveB said:

Are people in the 'burbs obese because of the sprwal discouraging
exercise, or do they move their because they don't want to exercise?

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20070120/bob9.asp

Another aspect - humans are genetically inclined to lay on the lard via
overeating, but most of us no longer have a active lifestyle (ie: being
chased by other animals trying to eat you, natural shortages etc) where
these eating behaviours are needed for survival.

--
cfsmtb

Hmmm, I started picturing ultras where the food tables were
still 10km apart, but now we had to perform a "physical
challenge" before the crew would feed us.

Tam

DaveB said:

Are people in the 'burbs obese because of the sprwal discouraging
exercise,

Ignoring what is obviously a low brow article (hint the aninmations and
flashy bits are a good guide), an alternative explanation is that people
in the burbs spend their exercise time commuting.

If you live in the city, then you do not need a bicycle, you just walk
everywhere. As you go out further, having a bicycle makes sense. If you
go way out, then a MV makes sense, even if you are spending a lot of
extra time working to pay for it.

However, I just love the 'going to restaurants mentality". As SWMBO
sorta says "wtf do you wanna pizza from up the road for, we both make
better pizzas ourselves"
"
'

Terryc said:

If you live in the city, then you do not need a bicycle, you just walk
everywhere

Considering the time it takes you to find something to lock up the bike to,
and then lock and unlock it again, I think the break-even point between
walking and riding is something less than 200 metres. And not every journey
is a commute to/within the CBD. You need a bike wherever you live.

--
beerwolf
(To reply by email, remove numbers from my address)

beerwolf said:

Terryc said:

If you live in the city, then you do not need a bicycle, you just walk
everywhere

Considering the time it takes you to find something to lock up the bike to,
and then lock and unlock it again, I think the break-even point between
walking and riding is something less than 200 metres.

Err, nope. I always thought it was far easier just to walk the 30
minutes to and from the train station, rather than ride down/up,
lock/unlock the bicyle, load up/unload helmet, lights, pump, etc and
struggle with them on train toand from work, then fit them all back on
to ride home.
Especially when I deceded I'd do another 30 minutes walking to work each
morning (from Central to Rosebery).

Quoted message said:

And not every journey
is a commute to/within the CBD. You need a bike wherever you live.

Sadly, a bicyle would be totally inappropritate for 99% of commutes,

OTOH, I've now retired and can bicyle at leisure (almost).

Quoted message said:

Terryc said:

Err, nope. I always thought it was far easier just to walk the 30
minutes to and from the train station, rather than ride down/up,
lock/unlock the bicyle, load up/unload helmet, lights, pump, etc and
struggle with them on train toand from work, then fit them all back on
to ride home.

I just had a cheap crappy (found) bike and a cheap crappy helmet that I'd
leave at the station. I imagine there are stations where even that would
go walkies or be smashed up, but I never had a problem, and it wasn't like
it was a big issue if it happened.

That meant that the 20 odd minute walk to the station became a 10 minute
ride, and the 20 odd minute walk home became about a 4 minute ride. For
exercise I'd just take the good bike and avoid the station, saving about
the same time on catching a train.

Quoted message said:

Sadly, a bicyle would be totally inappropritate for 99% of commutes,

Far fewer. Mine was pretty average by the standards of my previous
workplace (Sydney CBD). There were people from Penrith way, but most
people were inside Hornsby/Parramatta/Hurstville, and they're all fairly
easy to ride from. Even Penrith can be done if you're fit, and most people
don't need to carry huge amounts of [censored] (I did it with change of clothes,
minimal bike tools and a laptop).

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"They're coming to take me away, Ha Ha
They're coming to take me away, Ho Ho"

In aus.bicycle on 28 Jan 2007 15:00:06 GMT

Dave said:

Terryc said:

Sadly, a bicyle would be totally inappropritate for 99% of commutes,

Far fewer. Mine was pretty average by the standards of my previous
workplace (Sydney CBD). There were people from Penrith way, but most
people were inside Hornsby/Parramatta/Hurstville, and they're all fairly
easy to ride from. Even Penrith can be done if you're fit, and most people
don't need to carry huge amounts of [censored] (I did it with change of clothes,
minimal bike tools and a laptop).

I don't know what most people's commute is so I can't say how many....

But when I talk to non-cyclists they think mine of 18-20km (depending
on route) is very long.

I would have to, BB (before 'bent).

Do many people live 10km or less from their work these days? A quick
check around my office the other day showed one who lived a walkable
distance, of the others I was the closest in.

We are moving to North Ryde soon, the company is trying to promote
cycling as an alternative due to lack of parking. Even though some
would be closer to the new place than I am to the old they are
scouting on street parking. I say "bicycle, look at these bike paths"
and they say "no no no!"

Be interesting to see if that changes at all.

Mind you it is on the top of a big ridge so that's daunting. My
commute's current set of shortish and sometimes sharpish hills will
all be rolled into one big bugger. I guess I learn to climb.

Zebee

Terryc said:

DaveB said:

Are people in the 'burbs obese because of the sprwal discouraging
exercise,

Ignoring what is obviously a low brow article (hint the aninmations and
flashy bits are a good guide), an alternative explanation is that people
in the burbs spend their exercise time commuting.

If you live in the city, then you do not need a bicycle, you just walk
everywhere. As you go out further, having a bicycle makes sense. If you
go way out, then a MV makes sense, even if you are spending a lot of
extra time working to pay for it.

Did you read the whole thing? That's not an explanation for
what they're asking! They raised a very good question on the
causality. They identified what you've said, but they've
asked... do you buy a car because you live in the outer
'burbs, or do you buy in the outer 'burbs because you like
driving? I HATE driving and therefore I chose to live
somewhere that I rarely if ever find driving to be the most
suitable form of transport - I walk, ride or PT everywhere.

T

Tamyka Bell said:

Hmmm, I started picturing ultras where the food tables were
still 10km apart, but now we had to perform a "physical
challenge" before the crew would feed us.

Or ... to add a more realistic approach, hold the ultras down at Western Plains Zoo. I wouldn't worry at all about top-end carnivores, more like watch out for the cranky hippos. 😉

Zebee Johnstone said:

We are moving to North Ryde soon, the company is trying to promote
cycling as an alternative due to lack of parking.

That's actually pretty good cycling territory, and you can avoid a lot of
the steeper hills once you know your way around. Of course, it's about to
get much trickier to go to Beecroft and the Hills district.

From your place it's a little tricky, but I've seen someone who claimed
Victoria Rd and Pittwater Rd aren't too bad, which would suggest getting
to Balmain and going from there. Otherwise the highway and then Fuller's
Rd and Lane Cove National Park makes it about 30-40 minutes from North
Sydney.

The other option is from Olympic Park if that's reasonable from your neck
of the woods. There are marked cycle routes through the back of Eastwood,
and only a few climbs IIRC. Again it's roughly 30 minutes from Olympic
Park at a guess.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"When you need a helpline for breakfast cereals, it's time to start
thinking about tearing down civilisation and giving the ants a go"
- Chris King

Tamyka Bell said:

snip...

Did you read the whole thing? That's not an explanation for
what they're asking! They raised a very good question on the
causality. They identified what you've said, but they've
asked... do you buy a car because you live in the outer
'burbs, or do you buy in the outer 'burbs because you like
driving? I HATE driving and therefore I chose to live
somewhere that I rarely if ever find driving to be the most
suitable form of transport - I walk, ride or PT everywhere.

T

Tamyka "chose" ...and that's the vital point...individuals who CAN choose will decide their level of activity, if its to be fit, or if just enough to stave off obesity, irrespective of where they live.

interesting comment was made in the study "The people most at the mercy of sprawl, Ewing suggests, are those who have limited access to healthy foods and who don't recognize the importance of fitness."

But about the two cities that the study drew some motivating distinction- it is a politico-socio-economic thing...having been to both Atlanta and Vancouver, both have their cycle paths and unsuitable bike roads, both have parks and both have sporting activities in abundance... but one is huge, dominated by the motor car, in a culture of urban sprawl , interconnecting freeways and the Interstate and massive food consumption at each sitting by most residents with a job...(that being Atlanta), Vancouver on the other hand is compact, surrounded by Outdoor activity, driven by climate to permit variety in activity from water sports, skiing, cross country biking, running jogging tai chi ( high Chinese population too) and it is not Uncle Sam..it is Canadian, there is a culturally significant driver...that also differentiates attitidue to activity and diet.

Another closer comparison within the USA would be Denver and Boulder. Same climate, same State, Both College towns, Denver sprawls, is a huge cultural and social hotpot, depends on the car , whilst it has huge urban bike path networks, food plates still get piled high, not much in the fridge, most eat out and and to commute most get there by car...Boulder is nearby, next to the mountains, has massive bicycle infrastructure, every street is bike laned, every street has pedestrians and bikes in abundance, cars abound too, but service vehicles or out of towners would be the predominate vehicle user and local hillclimb public road rides are signposted for drivers to give way to riders...
I would venture to suggest Boulder's Joe average inhabitants would be fitter and healthier than Denver's .

the politics of the place will significantly contribute to the mix.

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on 28 Jan 2007 15:00:06 GMT

Dave said:

Terryc said:

Sadly, a bicyle would be totally inappropritate for 99% of commutes,

Far fewer. Mine was pretty average by the standards of my previous
workplace (Sydney CBD). There were people from Penrith way, but most
people were inside Hornsby/Parramatta/Hurstville, and they're all fairly
easy to ride from. Even Penrith can be done if you're fit, and most people
don't need to carry huge amounts of [censored] (I did it with change of clothes,
minimal bike tools and a laptop).

I don't know what most people's commute is so I can't say how many....

But when I talk to non-cyclists they think mine of 18-20km (depending
on route) is very long.

Don't start with distance, start with time.

``So how far do you commute?''

``About fortyfive minutes each way, 20kms.''

or in my case 70 minutes for sixty.

In aus.bicycle on 29 Jan 2007 00:36:46 GMT

Dave said:

From your place it's a little tricky, but I've seen someone who claimed
Victoria Rd and Pittwater Rd aren't too bad, which would suggest getting
to Balmain and going from there. Otherwise the highway and then Fuller's
Rd and Lane Cove National Park makes it about 30-40 minutes from North
Sydney.

Umm.. I live in Campsie. Why the hell would I go to Balmain? I work
in North Sydney 🙂

My current proposed route is up the cycle path to Homebush, then
across to Meadowbank and upwards from there. Nothing much till you
get to Melville St which is the big bugger climb, then the Shrimpton
road path and that gets me to work.

Quoted message said:

The other option is from Olympic Park if that's reasonable from your neck
of the woods. There are marked cycle routes through the back of Eastwood,
and only a few climbs IIRC. Again it's roughly 30 minutes from Olympic
Park at a guess.

Well.. there's only one real climb. But it's a beauty!

I took a wander round on the scooter on the weekend to see if it was
possible to avoid the big hill, but as the new OPtus campus is at the
top of the ridge (lionpark rd and epping rd) the answer is "no".

MIght be possible to add a couple of km and sort of circle round the
ridge but I dunno it would be worth it.

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:03:47 +1100

EuanB said:

Don't start with distance, start with time.

``So how far do you commute?''

``About fortyfive minutes each way, 20kms.''

Or in my case, 70 minutes each way, 20 kms.

I somehow doubt that other noncyclists will be that much faster in
the beginning.

I've sped up some, but it's still a long hard haul for me. Sydney is
hilly, and few commutes to North Sydney avoid up and down. The new
campus is at the top of a big ridge, and surrounded by hills.

A fit experienced cyclist might not care, but that's not who we are
talking about is it.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone said:

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:03:47 +1100

EuanB said:

Don't start with distance, start with time.

``So how far do you commute?''

``About fortyfive minutes each way, 20kms.''

Or in my case, 70 minutes each way, 20 kms.

I somehow doubt that other noncyclists will be that much faster in
the beginning.

I've sped up some, but it's still a long hard haul for me. Sydney is
hilly, and few commutes to North Sydney avoid up and down. The new
campus is at the top of a big ridge, and surrounded by hills.

A fit experienced cyclist might not care, but that's not who we are
talking about is it.

Zebee

My suggestion to commuting newbies who have more than 15km is to ride in
one day and pub transport home, then the reverse the following (or day
after if they are too knackered). On a flat route maybe 20km for newbies.

DaveB

cfsmtb said:

Or ... to add a more realistic approach, hold the ultras down at Western Plains Zoo. I wouldn't worry at all about top-end carnivores, more like watch out for the cranky hippos. 😉

Having just landed commitment for new bikepath which (almost) does just that! 😄
Extension of Federation Trail down river (around open zoo, the chickens!!!) and bridge over to Werribee Mansion. I 'really' wanted to make it go thru so that it could be a real tourist attraction so people would ride for miles to come and take on the 'Savannah Time-Trail', piting oneslf against the rhino's,etc

Flying"eat-the-lantern-rougers"Dutch

Zebee Johnstone said:

Umm.. I live in Campsie. Why the hell would I go to Balmain? I work
in North Sydney 🙂

I don't know much in the way of bike routes in that part of the world, and
was making a rash assumption there might be something headed that way. Of
course, now you confirm you're going to Homebush I remember that the bay
to bay is pretty much on your doorstep. D'oh!

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"Strata and syncline are not terms typically used in office
filing systems." - Doc Nickel

Dave said:

Far fewer. Mine was pretty average by the standards of my previous
workplace (Sydney CBD). There were people from Penrith way, but most
people were inside Hornsby/Parramatta/Hurstville, and they're all fairly
easy to ride from. Even Penrith can be done if you're fit, and most people
don't need to carry huge amounts of [censored] (I did it with change of clothes,
minimal bike tools and a laptop).

I'll disagree with your assessment.
Of course, when I first looked, there wasn't the freeways and
expressways there are now, but not everyone can do high speeds.

Quoted message said:

Tamyka Bell wrote:
.. do you buy a car because you live in the outer

Quoted message said:

'burbs, or do you buy in the outer 'burbs because you like
driving?

Nope, I purchased in the outer suburbs because when I turned my corner
20 years ago, I could see lovely green hills and hills and hills, plus
there was a 30min walk to the train station and a 50-65 minute commute
to frenzy central. Bloody ideal.

Now, it is wall to wall housing as far as the eye can see, despite the
scenic hills protection policy (must be about posters in wests or
something) and the train journey is 75minutes+ of sardine can courtesy
of skully, costa and lemming.

And another reason was that I could purchase a nice little place to save
wasting money on rent for only $50K. Of course, I could have taken that
$300K we were offered those decades ago and purchased somewhere closer
in and both of us would have slaved and slaved and slaved and probably
still been paying it off.

Buggered how we would have survived the 17+% interest rates.

Nor do I know how we would have survived the growing city traffic whilst
riding as there were bugger all expressways, clearways, etc. It was all
bumper to bumper (on the very few times I drove (work vehicles)).

Quoted message said:

I HATE driving and therefore I chose to live
somewhere that I rarely if ever find driving to be the most
suitable form of transport - I walk, ride or PT everywhere.

Presisely. Unfortunately, there are limited places like that in any city.