Off yer bike

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3303655.stmOpen ↗

Succumbing at last to the worldwide love affair with the car, China - of

all

Quoted message said:

places - is officially turning up its nose at the humble bicycle. Its biggest city, Shanghai,
plans to ban bikes from all major roads next

year

Quoted message said:

to ease congestion, state-run newspapers said on Tuesday.

Tony

And so it begins, what's it going to be like in China when they all want a car ?

Graham

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Shanghai, plans to ban bikes from all major roads next year to ease congestion, state-run
newspapers said on Tuesday.

That should work well - cars only occupy about ten to fifteen times the road space of bikes,
after all.

This reminds me of early cycle track experiments. The car is a minority mode, but it's a rich and
powerful minority, so the poor old bike has to defer to the "new" and "modern."

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3303655.stmOpen ↗

Succumbing at last to the worldwide love affair with the car, China - of

all

Quoted message said:

places - is officially turning up its nose at the humble bicycle. Its biggest city, Shanghai,
plans to ban bikes from all major roads next

year

Quoted message said:

to ease congestion, state-run newspapers said on Tuesday.

Let global warming rip.

T

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tony Raven
news.bbc.co.uk3303655.stmOpen ↗

Succumbing at last to the worldwide love affair with the car, China - of all places - is officially
turning up its nose at the humble bicycle. Its biggest city, Shanghai, plans to ban bikes from all
major roads next year to ease congestion, state-run newspapers said on Tuesday.

Tony

it aint gonna happen- like the guy from Shanghai said theyll just go on the pavement. also it says 9 million bikes are owned, i wonder how many cycle every day and whether the chinese police could deal with millions of law breakers day in day out!

on another note if you go to china and need a bike just wait for about 50 bikes to pull up at the traffic lights and shout "oi, thats my bike" (in chinese obviously), and guaranteed 1 or 2 people will jump off and leg it, take their bike until someone does the same 🙂

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk3303655.stmOpen ↗

Succumbing at last to the worldwide love affair with the car, China - of

all

Quoted message said:

places - is officially turning up its nose at the humble bicycle. Its biggest city, Shanghai,
plans to ban bikes from all major roads next

year

Quoted message said:

to ease congestion, state-run newspapers said on Tuesday.

Tony

And if the Africans get started ! They'll all want BMW's !

Graham

Tony W said:

Let global warming rip.

What amazes me is that the number of bikes is reportedly fairly constant, the congestion was not a
problem before, and suddenly the increasing number of private cars means that there is congestion.

Cars cause the problem, but the solution is to remove the bikes. Brilliant!

Guy
===
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Just zis Guy said:

What amazes me is that the number of bikes is reportedly fairly constant, the congestion was not a
problem before, and suddenly the increasing number of private cars means that there is congestion.

Actually congestion was a problem before. When I was first there in the beginning of the '80's when
the only cars were the official ones, the density of cyclists on the streets was incredible. It
persuaded me then that getting everyone on bicycles was no utopia

Tony

Tony Raven said:

When I was first there in the beginning of the '80's when the only cars were the official ones, the
density of cyclists on the streets was incredible. It persuaded me then that getting everyone on
bicycles was no utopia

I think that's more a function of population density that transport mode, but ICBW...

Guy
===
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"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What amazes me is that the number of bikes is reportedly fairly constant, the congestion was not a
problem before, and suddenly the increasing number of private cars means that there is congestion.

Cars cause the problem, but the solution is to remove the bikes. Brilliant!

If you believe that bikes cannot cause congestion I suggest you stand in down town Jaipur at rush
hour. (Cars are excluded from the historic centre but bikes and bullock carts make for quite a
traffic jam).

Similar congestion can (or at least could) be seen in many other cities.

However, you are right -- the introduction of even relatively modest quantities of cars moves the
problem on to a completely new level. Car ownership in, say, Delhi is not particularly high by
western standards -- but they sure know how to organise a good grid-lock.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, removing the bikes is a tried and tested formular. We did it in
Britain when bike lanes started being put along the sides of major roads (the Great West Road used
to have a good example and the A24 between Leatherhead and Dorking (past Box Hill) still has a
vestigial one -- though its mostly used as a parking and rubbish dumping area. Its the equivalent
of the Zill lane in Moscow. High status traffic gets high status 'priority' until if clogs the
entire system.

It is fascinating to see that the effect of Red Ken's congestion charging in London has been a
significant increase in bicycle use. Set the conditions to encourage rational choice of transport
mode and people will experiment with alternatives. Do nothing and you end up with the boiled frog
effect as motorised traffic builds and builds until it grid locks.

T

Tony W said:

formular. We did it in Britain when bike lanes started being put along the sides of major roads
(the Great West Road used to have a good example and the A24 between Leatherhead and Dorking
(past Box Hill) still has a vestigial one -- though its mostly used as a parking and rubbish
dumping area.

You're out of date - for the last 6 months it's been a construction site. There is no cycle lane,
just a long, long trench (currently partly filled, but still the odd hole every few hundred yards,
and still a sea of mud to rival WWI battlefields) to install a new gas main and water main.
Interestingly, there has been no comment about the fact that teh cycle lane has been entirely closed
for months. However, when they needed to cross the roundabout at the north end and reduced the two
lane roundabout to one lane for about 12 hours, _then_ it was front-page news in teh local paper.

Before they ripped it up it was only used for parking in patches, and most of the cars managed to
fit themselves on the verges without actually blocking the path. Also, my path has never been
blocked by dumped rubbish. The road is major enough that there aren't many junctions (though
obviously the cycle path has give-way lines even for the private entrance to two cottages), and
it's one of teh few cycle facilities I use (well, when it's not so deep in mud I can't make teh
wheels turn).

The only positive thing about it, is that it has spurred me to join the local cycle campaign, at
whose meetings I berate the council traffic rep and offer a civil engineering insight.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the A24 between Leatherhead and Dorking (past Box Hill) still has a vestigial one -- though its
mostly used as a parking and rubbish

dumping

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

area.

You're out of date - for the last 6 months it's been a construction site.

snip

Thanks for the update -- I last lived in the area some 12 years ago so I admit I'm out of date.

Though it was then in poor repair I did like the south bound path as it wend its way through the
central reservation. In contrast the northbound was boringly conventional.

T

Just zis Guy said:

Tony Raven said:

When I was first there in the beginning of the '80's when the only cars were the official ones,
the density of cyclists on the streets was incredible. It persuaded me then that getting everyone
on bicycles was no utopia

I think that's more a function of population density that transport mode, but ICBW...

UK population density 244 /sq km PRC population density 134 / sq km

Tony

On 11/12/03 1:33 pm, in article [email hidden],

Tony W said:

Thanks for the update -- I last lived in the area some 12 years ago so I admit I'm out of date.

Likewise.. I moved from that area in the early 90's

Quoted message said:

Though it was then in poor repair I did like the south bound path as it wend its way through the
central reservation. In contrast the northbound was boringly conventional.

I must admit I was left thinking 'what cycle lane' as I always used to ride on the road. There are
lots of nice roads around there and the cafe on top of Box Hill was always good for a cuppa.

..d

Tony Raven said:

UK population density 244 /sq km PRC population density 134 / sq km

London population density? Shanghai population density?

Guy
===
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"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

UK population density 244 /sq km PRC population density 134 / sq km

London population density? Shanghai population density?

4,297 and 2,082 people/km^2 respectively (yes, I do mean that way round).

James

On 11 Dec 2003 19:06:03 -0800, [email hidden] (James

Annan) said:

Quoted message said:

London population density? Shanghai population density?

4,297 and 2,082 people/km^2 respectively (yes, I do mean that way round).

Amazing. So, when they all move from bikes (approx. 10 sq. ft, of road space when stationary) to
cars (approx. 100 sq. ft.) the problem will clearly go away ;-)

Guy
===
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:25:24 +0000, in
<[email hidden]>, "Just zis Guy, you

know? said:

(James Annan) said:

Quoted message said:

London population density? Shanghai population density?

4,297 and 2,082 people/km^2 respectively (yes, I do mean that way round).

Amazing. So, when they all move from bikes (approx. 10 sq. ft, of road space when stationary) to
cars (approx. 100 sq. ft.) the problem will clearly go away ;-)

Perhaps "National Bike Week" would actually be more effective at educating the cagophiles if it was
changed to "National Car Week" where all cyclists chose to drive to work for five days?

Mind you if the contrast between school term=-time and school holidaytime doesn't educate them then
what will?

--
Sig got lost during a reinstall

James Annan said:

Just zis Guy said:

London population density? Shanghai population density?

4,297 and 2,082 people/km^2 respectively (yes, I
do mean that way round).

Statistics should not be treated carelessly.

The municipality of shanghai contains semi-rural areas with popluation densities in the hundreds per square kilometre, as well as regions in which the population density is superior to 50,000 people per square kilometre.

demographia.comdb shanghaiward.htmOpen ↗

Only four London boroughs have population densities in excess of 10,000 people per square kilometre, the most densely populated being Kensington and Chelsea at 13,120.

statistics.gov.ukssdataset.aspOpen ↗

I hope this helps.

N. Lenderby (Mrs)

--
Sign your name across my heart. I want you to be my baby.

In article <[email hidden]>, Ian Smith <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The only positive thing about it, is that it has spurred me to join the local cycle campaign, at
whose meetings I berate the council traffic rep and offer a civil engineering insight.

At least you're civil about it!

--
congokid Eating out in London? Read my tips... congokid.comcongokid.comOpen ↗