only a total fred would use 36-spoke wheels...

Dan Connelly said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg
In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

Oh, fashion again.
Looks good with fur too:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/squirrel.jpg
Can't do _that_ with a 36!!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Apr 9, 12:39 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/...

If you bothered to read the article you would have written that the 36
hole wheels were for training. He switched to the Campagnolo factory
boutique Proton wheels for the RVV. So the 36 spoke wheels are the
bike path trail wheels. And the factory boutique wheels are game day,
winning wheels.

"The team mostly uses these three-cross wheels in training," Biron
added as we looked at Ballan's wheels, which use Campagnolo Record
hubs laced to tubular box-section rims. At 1.9 metres tall (6' 2"😉,
Ballan needs a little extra strength and support when he rides, and
the Italian rider runs 36 spokes up front as a result.

"For the races we will switch over to Campagnolo Proton wheels, still
using tubulars with these tyres," continued Biron, referring to the
team's Vittoria Pavé Evo treads. Ballan admittedly does not have that
much time on those wheels, but apparently still feels confident enough
to use them in key events. "I tried at Harelbeke [E3 Prijs] and I will
probably use them on Sunday [for Ronde]. They work really well; they
are very rigid enough for my use," summarized the 72kg (159lb) rider.

Quoted message said:

In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

Dan

email hidden said:

On Apr 9, 12:39 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:

He switched to the Campagnolo factory

Quoted message said:

boutique Proton wheels for the RVV. So the 36 spoke wheels are the
bike path trail wheels. And the factory boutique wheels are game day,
winning wheels.

The way he was riding, it didn't take "game day" wheels to win.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Connelly d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBik
e001.jpg

Or with the seatpost sticking so far out and the bars so low. Clearly a
neophyte poseur on his way to the coffee shop in his full Euro pro lycra
outfit.

Quoted message said:

In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

Now that's more like! *Those* wheels oughta last. And that sturdy,
light, stiff but compliant frame.

Quoted message said:

On Apr 9, 12:39 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/...

If you bothered to read the article you would have written that the 36
hole wheels were for training. He switched to the Campagnolo factory
boutique Proton wheels for the RVV.

You're right:

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/PhotosTest/07flan-017000
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/index.php?id=/photos/2007/apr07/rvv07/fs020

Interestingly, Campy Protons are relatively conventional.

Dan

now that's more like uh uh uh walmort.
whatzis? post armstrong era? what happened to pogo stick geometrey?
eesss relaxed, no?
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/subcategory.php?c=1&s=1
you can get the credit card inbetween seatpost and rear tire
nomoah tread shavin'?

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:39:23 GMT, Dan Connelly

d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg

Nice training wheels.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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Quoted message said:

email hidden said:

On Apr 9, 12:39 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:

He switched to the Campagnolo factory

Quoted message said:

boutique Proton wheels for the RVV. So the 36 spoke wheels are the
bike path trail wheels. And the factory boutique wheels are game day,
winning wheels.

Quoted message said:

The way he was riding, it didn't take "game day" wheels to win.

Yeah, he won by such a big margin I'm sure he would have been happy to
ride slower stuff. Sure he would. His 36-hole wheels would have been
no liability at all as he was going 45-55kph the last 15 minutes with
one other guy 15 seconds ahead of the chase. Sure.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg

I told a clyde' I know that he should get himself some 64-spoke
wheels, after a spell of breaking a spoke/week. 🙂.

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg

In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

All joking aside, I have two serious comments-

#1: It's somewhat arrogant to assume that a flat-bar bike exists only for a
bike path. There are a number of people out there, many of them my own
customers, who do centuries on flat-bar road bikes (which is what's shown in
your second link). I always make sure they have a legit need for a flat-bar
bike, often almost forcing them against their desire to test-ride a drop-bar
bike. Some just won't go for anything but the flat bar option though. And a
couple of them might hold their own on an AltoVelo "A" ride.

#2: Discovery trains on heavier, 32-spoke wheels. Called the "Classic", it's
quite a bit heavier, and quite a bit less aero. But they like training on
them because they race wheels then feel so much faster. Guess it's like
runners training with ankle weights. Come race time, the heavier wheels go
away and the reduced-spoke-count wheels are used when it matters.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg

In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

All joking aside, I have two serious comments-

#1: It's somewhat arrogant to assume that a flat-bar bike exists only for a
bike path.

Go to:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/index.php

I picked that bike from here:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/category.php?c=4

So please direct complaints to Trek 🙂.

Quoted message said:

#2: Discovery trains on heavier, 32-spoke wheels. Called the "Classic", it's
quite a bit heavier, and quite a bit less aero. But they like training on
them because they race wheels then feel so much faster. Guess it's like
runners training with ankle weights. Come race time, the heavier wheels go
away and the reduced-spoke-count wheels are used when it matters.

The aerodynamics are more strongly affected by rim profile than by spoke-count,
from calculations I've seen. Not that a 2% or whatever difference in wind drag
matters much on the bike path, or in metric centuries. In each case durability
is by far the #1 consideration for wheels. I know, I know, Rolfs or Bontrager
paired spoke wheels are quite durable. Still, the practices of the pro teams
suggests conventional 32-36 spoke wheels are better.

Dan

trek's commuter, tap left sidebar then 'portland' is offered with 32
spokes and discs so it is no longer necessary to own 36 spoke wheels.
where's the can...?
it's a style job on the consumer. there's no develoment in etchnology
supporting fewer spokes for commuting, is there?

Bluejay said:

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/...

I told a clyde' I know that he should get himself some 64-spoke
wheels, after a spell of breaking a spoke/week. 🙂.

A better suggestion would be to get a new wheelbuilder. ;-)

Quoted post said:

trek's commuter, tap left sidebar then 'portland' is offered with 32
spokes and discs

TREK PORTLAND
THE definitive Poseur's commuting bike

"When it comes to everyday riding, the new Portland is not up to the
job. Low spoke count wheels and a plastic fork work together to take
the "R" and the "E" out of Reliability. The completely unnecessary ten
speed drive train makes easy shifting a distant memory. It's a good
thing you make better purchasing decisions in the rest of your life."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

#1: It's somewhat arrogant to assume that a flat-bar bike exists only for
a bike path.

Go to:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/index.php

I picked that bike from here:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/category.php?c=4

So please direct complaints to Trek 🙂.

And wouldn't you know it, I have, often times, had conversations with the
marketing department about the dangers of pigeon-holing customers into
certain types of bikes and/or riding.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

#2: Discovery trains on heavier, 32-spoke wheels. Called the "Classic",
it's quite a bit heavier, and quite a bit less aero. But they like
training on them because they race wheels then feel so much faster. Guess
it's like runners training with ankle weights. Come race time, the
heavier wheels go away and the reduced-spoke-count wheels are used when
it matters.

The aerodynamics are more strongly affected by rim profile than by
spoke-count,
from calculations I've seen. Not that a 2% or whatever difference in wind
drag
matters much on the bike path, or in metric centuries. In each case
durability
is by far the #1 consideration for wheels. I know, I know, Rolfs or
Bontrager
paired spoke wheels are quite durable. Still, the practices of the pro
teams
suggests conventional 32-36 spoke wheels are better.

It would be very difficult to do a reasonably-good job of optimizing a 1500
gram wheel and a 1900 gram version, and not have the 1900 gram wheel being
stronger. I suppose, if it were entirely for the purpose of training on
something heavier, they could provide optional weights to hang on the
spokes, but in terms of durability, if a set of wheels that weighs 3/4 pound
more than another isn't stronger, something would seem quite wrong.

Rim profile is a major contributor to aerodynamics, but not just height. The
pros (at least those on Discovery) generally ride on cross-sections wider
than what's sold to the general public. The wider cross section adds weight,
provides negligible improvement in strength, but significant improvements in
aerodynamics because it more-closely matches the width of the tire.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
news:461AD81E.8020907@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these
things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg

In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

All joking aside, I have two serious comments-

#1: It's somewhat arrogant to assume that a flat-bar bike exists only for
a bike path.

Go to:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/index.php

I picked that bike from here:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/category.php?c=4

So please direct complaints to Trek 🙂.

Quoted message said:

#2: Discovery trains on heavier, 32-spoke wheels. Called the "Classic",
it's quite a bit heavier, and quite a bit less aero. But they like
training on them because they race wheels then feel so much faster. Guess
it's like runners training with ankle weights. Come race time, the
heavier wheels go away and the reduced-spoke-count wheels are used when
it matters.

The aerodynamics are more strongly affected by rim profile than by
spoke-count,
from calculations I've seen. Not that a 2% or whatever difference in wind
drag
matters much on the bike path, or in metric centuries. In each case
durability
is by far the #1 consideration for wheels. I know, I know, Rolfs or
Bontrager
paired spoke wheels are quite durable. Still, the practices of the pro
teams
suggests conventional 32-36 spoke wheels are better.

Dan

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No self-respecting metric century rider would be caught with these
things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/ballan_wilier07/BallanBike001.jpg

In contrast, here's a bike built ready for the bike path:
http://www2.trekbikes.com/images/bikes_my07/large/79fx_nudecarbon.jpg

All joking aside, I have two serious comments-

#1: It's somewhat arrogant to assume that a flat-bar bike exists only for
a bike path. There are a number of people out there, many of them my own
customers, who do centuries on flat-bar road bikes (which is what's shown
in your second link).

Actually I took it as "the fancier and high tech the bike the less likely it
will be taken anywhere but the bike path (except to hit the bakery closest
to the bike path).
--
Ticketbastard tax tracker:
http://ticketmastersucks.org/tracker.html

Dethink to survive - Mclusky" It sure wasn't the flat bars that made me
think that.

Greg

but significant improvements in
aerodynamics because it more-closely matches the width of the tire.
does the rim/tire width match allow more trail without costing less
turn in?
trail to sprint.

trek isn't surly. trek may forced to go toward a more relaxed flash
gordon setup to compete at the trek level. corporate v lunch.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
<snip for clarity>

Quoted message said:

#2: Discovery trains on heavier, 32-spoke wheels. Called the "Classic", it's
quite a bit heavier, and quite a bit less aero. But they like training on
them because they race wheels then feel so much faster. Guess it's like
runners training with ankle weights. Come race time, the heavier wheels go
away and the reduced-spoke-count wheels are used when it matters.

absolutely. "train heavy, race light."

On Apr 9, 4:11 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeah, he won by such a big margin I'm sure he would have been happy to
ride slower stuff. Sure he would. His 36-hole wheels would have been
no liability at all as he was going 45-55kph the last 15 minutes with
one other guy 15 seconds ahead of the chase. Sure.

True... but if he was really riding Protons there wouldn't have been
much difference. It is a realitively cheap (<$500) and heavy (1640g)
wheelset, with a low profile rim and 22f 24r spokes.

Lots of pros are still riding 32-36h box rims for any race with
cobbles... interesting. Especially when you consider that they do it
inspite of their sponser's wishes.