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Oops, I did it again...

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
3 July 2007
Last activity
10 October 2007
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maxine in ri
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  1. Giusi said:
    Pennyaline said:

    Bullfinches! You said that the recipe and method at
    http://www.mangiareinliguria.it/consorziopestogenovese/pestogenovesedop.php
    is the ultimate authority on DOP Pesto Genovese, and then you tried to
    change the page. FOUL! Your logic and actions were flawed, therefore
    your argument is groundless.

    Incidentally, I've only seen one recipe for pesto that included
    walnuts as a mandatory ingredient, so I'm sorta kinda on your side.

    I can't imagine why you care,

    'Cuz... cuz *he* started it!

    Quoted message said:

    because no matter how genuinely you tackle
    the DOP recipe, you won't get Genovese pesto. The basil is different
    there. Even with seeds from Genova you don't get exactly the same
    thing. I doubted it, so a friend had her ex bring Genovese pesto,
    Genovese basil and had me bring my basil grown from Genovese seeds. We
    whipped up pesto from the two fresh basils and did a test of all three
    pestos. She was right. It tastes different. It tastes great to me in
    all versions, but only the two Genovese pestos tasted just exactly the
    same.

    The DOP recipe and indeed the whole DOP issue is, to my mind, a
    guarantee that manufacture will stay where it is. Just as the method of
    making champagne has been restricted by law to the Champagne region and
    no other region my call its sparkling wine "champagne," the DOP Pesto
    Genovese method seems to seek to insure that only pesto made in that
    region may call be called Genovese and all others must be called
    something else. It uses an interestingly closed-minded approach,
    apparently assuming that by mandating ingredients the originate in the
    limited region it may preserve the integrity of the product (granted,
    the actual method of making pesto is hardly unique and hardly patentable
    as was the Champagne method). Genovese basil experiment points out only
    one of the intrinsic variability possible in items bearing the same
    name. Your basil and your friend's ex's basil both made a delicious
    product, but each was different although the ingredients had the right
    pedigrees. Even basil springing from the same source may differ.
    Cuttings propagated from a single plant will taste the same, but plants
    grown from the seeds of that first plant may produce basil that is
    different thanks to cross pollination. It's a natural variation.
    "Champagnes" don't all taste alike and recipes are necessarily imprecise
    because fruit and vines vary, but the method for champagne is always the
    same and it is the Champagne method that is protected.

    Quoted message said:

    It would take more than that to make me go to Liguria, but fortunately
    there are many wonderful reasons to go there.

    Being practical, like most cooks in Umbria, if I have old pecorino I use
    it, if I don't, I use all Parmigiano. It takes more than a missing
    cheese to keep me from my pesto. I ate it last night.

    Enough said.

  2. Vilco said:
    Giusi said:
    Quoted message said:

    Incidentally, I've only seen one recipe for pesto that included
    walnuts as a mandatory ingredient, so I'm sorta kinda on your side.

    Quoted message said:

    I can't imagine why you care,

    That's usenet, Giusi.

    Music swells. Jack Nicholson drives off...

    --Blair

  3. Pennyaline said:


    Also, your originally-cited DOP method mandates walnuts. You seem to
    think that is unimportant. Applying that logic to the whole, if one
    ingredient in the DOP recipe can arbitrarily be treated as dispensible,
    any other one can be treated arbitrarily as well and the recipe can
    still be called the "official" one. So what difference does DOP make if
    it is not a guarantee of fidelity to region and method?

    Because with two Italian chefs even who grew up next door to each other,
    any point in a recipe could become stilettos at dawn.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  4. "Giusi" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Pennyaline wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Also, your originally-cited DOP method mandates walnuts. You seem to
    think that is unimportant. Applying that logic to the whole, if one
    ingredient in the DOP recipe can arbitrarily be treated as dispensible,
    any other one can be treated arbitrarily as well and the recipe can still
    be called the "official" one. So what difference does DOP make if it is
    not a guarantee of fidelity to region and method?

    Because with two Italian chefs even who grew up next door to each other,
    any point in a recipe could become stilettos at dawn.

    Kinky!

    nancy

  5. Giusi said:
    Pennyaline said:


    Also, your originally-cited DOP method mandates walnuts. You seem to
    think that is unimportant. Applying that logic to the whole, if one
    ingredient in the DOP recipe can arbitrarily be treated as
    dispensible, any other one can be treated arbitrarily as well and the
    recipe can still be called the "official" one. So what difference does
    DOP make if it is not a guarantee of fidelity to region and method?

    Because with two Italian chefs even who grew up next door to each other,
    any point in a recipe could become stilettos at dawn.

    Ah, so that's what Italian chefs are wearing these days. It's no wonder
    they bicker, then.

  6. Pennyaline said:

    be called something else. It uses an interestingly closed-minded
    approach, apparently assuming that by mandating ingredients the
    originate in the limited region it may preserve the integrity of the
    product (granted, the actual method of making pesto is hardly unique
    and hardly patentable as was the Champagne method).

    False. There are thsousands wines which use the same methods (there isn't
    just one) used in champagne, start searching for "methode classique" and
    you'll find many just in France, then start searching for it's spanish and
    italian translations and you'll find even more.
    Find something better to write.
    --
    Vilco
    Think pink, drink rose'

  7. Pennyaline said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > 1) I don't never care of gran apadano as an option to parmigiano,
    > so I reported only parmigiano for the first part.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Oh. Of course. I should have felt that via my powers of extrasensory
    perception.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You read it thanks to my link, isn't it? So, thank me.

    Quoted message said:

    That you don't care for Gran Padano as an alternative to parmigiano
    wasn't stated on the page you linked to, so there is nothing to thank
    you for.

    Enjoy grana padano, ROTFL

    Quoted message said:

    Sorry. You tried to defend your argument for the two cheeses approach
    by suddenly finding a typo. But you were the champion of that
    article. You found it, and you posted the link. With your knowledge
    of Italian, you should have recognized the error on the first read.

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss, dear
    ass.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, your originally-cited DOP method mandates walnuts. You seem to
    think that is unimportant. Applying that logic to the whole, if one
    ingredient in the DOP recipe can arbitrarily be treated as
    dispensible, any other one can be treated arbitrarily as well and the
    recipe can still be called the "official" one. So what difference
    does DOP make if it is not a guarantee of fidelity to region and
    method?

    No optionals and you have the real thing, you worry so much for optionals
    that you've totally lost the focus on pesto. Go along, I won't follow.
    --
    Vilco
    Think pink, drink rose'

  8. Vilco said:
    Pennyaline said:

    be called something else. It uses an interestingly closed-minded
    approach, apparently assuming that by mandating ingredients the
    originate in the limited region it may preserve the integrity of the
    product (granted, the actual method of making pesto is hardly unique
    and hardly patentable as was the Champagne method).

    False. There are thsousands wines which use the same methods (there isn't
    just one) used in champagne, start searching for "methode classique" and
    you'll find many just in France, then start searching for it's spanish and
    italian translations and you'll find even more.
    Find something better to write.

    I'm not sure what I'm responding to here. You've left out so much of my
    statement that its context and meaning are gone. This discussion is an
    older one and I don't remember all of the details of it. I will, when I
    have time, look back into the archives and try to follow up the origin
    of that truncated quotation. Meanwhile, it and your response to it have
    no meaning.

  9. Vilco said:
    Pennyaline said:

    be called something else. It uses an interestingly closed-minded
    approach, apparently assuming that by mandating ingredients the
    originate in the limited region it may preserve the integrity of the
    product (granted, the actual method of making pesto is hardly unique
    and hardly patentable as was the Champagne method).

    False. There are thsousands wines which use the same methods (there isn't
    just one) used in champagne, start searching for "methode classique" and
    you'll find many just in France, then start searching for it's spanish and
    italian translations and you'll find even more.
    Find something better to write.

    I'm not sure what I'm responding to here. You've left out so much of my
    statement that its context and meaning are gone. This discussion is an
    older one and I don't remember all of the details of it. I will, when I
    have time, look back into the archives and try to follow up the origin
    of that truncated quotation. Meanwhile, it and your response to it have
    no meaning.

  10. Vilco said:
    Pennyaline said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> 1) I don't never care of gran apadano as an option to parmigiano,
    >> so I reported only parmigiano for the first part.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Oh. Of course. I should have felt that via my powers of extrasensory
    > perception.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You read it thanks to my link, isn't it? So, thank me.

    Quoted message said:

    That you don't care for Gran Padano as an alternative to parmigiano
    wasn't stated on the page you linked to, so there is nothing to thank
    you for.

    Enjoy grana padano, ROTFL

    What??

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Sorry. You tried to defend your argument for the two cheeses approach
    by suddenly finding a typo. But you were the champion of that
    article. You found it, and you posted the link. With your knowledge
    of Italian, you should have recognized the error on the first read.

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss, dear
    ass.

    If you're going to hold something as gospel, you should at least read it
    for errors.

    Dear ass??

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Also, your originally-cited DOP method mandates walnuts. You seem to
    think that is unimportant. Applying that logic to the whole, if one
    ingredient in the DOP recipe can arbitrarily be treated as
    dispensible, any other one can be treated arbitrarily as well and the
    recipe can still be called the "official" one. So what difference
    does DOP make if it is not a guarantee of fidelity to region and
    method?

    No optionals and you have the real thing, you worry so much for optionals
    that you've totally lost the focus on pesto.

    Whatever. It's you calling the DOP gospel, not me.

    Quoted message said:

    Go along, I won't follow.

    Excellent idea. Find something to do besides pumping air into dead
    discussions.

  11. Vilco said:
    Pennyaline said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> 1) I don't never care of gran apadano as an option to parmigiano,
    >> so I reported only parmigiano for the first part.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Oh. Of course. I should have felt that via my powers of extrasensory
    > perception.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You read it thanks to my link, isn't it? So, thank me.

    Quoted message said:

    That you don't care for Gran Padano as an alternative to parmigiano
    wasn't stated on the page you linked to, so there is nothing to thank
    you for.

    Enjoy grana padano, ROTFL

    What??

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Sorry. You tried to defend your argument for the two cheeses approach
    by suddenly finding a typo. But you were the champion of that
    article. You found it, and you posted the link. With your knowledge
    of Italian, you should have recognized the error on the first read.

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss, dear
    ass.

    If you're going to hold something as gospel, you should at least read it
    for errors.

    Dear ass??

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Also, your originally-cited DOP method mandates walnuts. You seem to
    think that is unimportant. Applying that logic to the whole, if one
    ingredient in the DOP recipe can arbitrarily be treated as
    dispensible, any other one can be treated arbitrarily as well and the
    recipe can still be called the "official" one. So what difference
    does DOP make if it is not a guarantee of fidelity to region and
    method?

    No optionals and you have the real thing, you worry so much for optionals
    that you've totally lost the focus on pesto.

    Whatever. It's you calling the DOP gospel, not me.

    Quoted message said:

    Go along, I won't follow.

    Excellent idea. Find something to do besides pumping air into dead
    discussions.

  12. "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline said:

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora

  13. Pandora said:

    "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline said:

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora

    They may or may not be, dear. Still, *I* didn't call Vilco anything. You
    attributed his words as mine.

  14. "Pandora" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline said:

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora

    Probably Sheldon's sister ;-)
    Dee Dee

  15. "Pandora" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline said:

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora

    Oops, I meant, probably Sheldon's girlfriend. His sister is probably nice;
    she probably got the best genes.
    Dee Dee

  16. "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Pandora" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline said:

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora

    Probably Sheldon's sister ;-)
    Dee Dee

    YES, YES, YES! And I thank you for having remembered me 🙂

    --
    Kisses
    Pandora

  17. Dee Dee said:

    Oops, I meant, probably Sheldon's girlfriend. His sister is probably nice;
    she probably got the best genes.

    Sister, girlfriend, whatever. It wasn't me doing the name calling. If
    that's too difficult for the two of you to face, seek therapy.

  18. "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Pandora" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline said:

    But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora

    Oops, I meant, probably Sheldon's girlfriend. His sister is probably
    nice; she probably got the best genes.
    Dee Dee

    No I think that all the Penny's family is like the sheldon's family!

    --
    Kisses
    Pandora

  19. Pandora said:

    "Dee Dee" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Pandora" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Vilco" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    news:[email hidden]..

    Pennyaline wrote:
    > But I didn't read it twice as I do when I must submit a job to my boss,
    > dear ass.

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I think you are exaggerate. And you are
    saying "ass 2 my ITALIAN friend Vilco! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I hope Americans are not all like
    you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pandora


    Oops, I meant, probably Sheldon's girlfriend. His sister is probably
    nice; she probably got the best genes.
    Dee Dee

    No I think that all the Penny's family is like the sheldon's family!


    Can't we call a stop to this childish insult fest?

  20. Pennyaline said:
    Vilco said:

    False. There are thsousands wines which use the same methods (there
    isn't just one) used in champagne, start searching for "methode
    classique" and you'll find many just in France, then start searching
    for it's spanish and italian translations and you'll find even more.
    Find something better to write.

    I'm not sure what I'm responding to here. You've left out so much of my
    statement that its context and meaning are gone. This discussion is an
    older one and I don't remember all of the details of it. I will, when I
    have time, look back into the archives and try to follow up the origin
    of that truncated quotation. Meanwhile, it and your response to it have
    no meaning.

    Here it is! From July 6, 2007, three months ago, in a posted response to
    "Giusi":

    ************

    Giusi said:
    Pennyaline said:

    Bullfinches! You said that the recipe and method at
    http://www.mangiareinliguria.it/consorziopestogenovese/pestogenovesed...
    is the ultimate authority on DOP Pesto Genovese, and then you tried to
    change the page. FOUL! Your logic and actions were flawed, therefore
    your argument is groundless.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Incidentally, I've only seen one recipe for pesto that included
    walnuts as a mandatory ingredient, so I'm sorta kinda on your side.

    Quoted message said:

    I can't imagine why you care,

    'Cuz... cuz *he* started it!

    Quoted message said:

    because no matter how genuinely you tackle
    the DOP recipe, you won't get Genovese pesto. The basil is different
    there. Even with seeds from Genova you don't get exactly the same
    thing. I doubted it, so a friend had her ex bring Genovese pesto,
    Genovese basil and had me bring my basil grown from Genovese seeds. We
    whipped up pesto from the two fresh basils and did a test of all three
    pestos. She was right. It tastes different. It tastes great to me in
    all versions, but only the two Genovese pestos tasted just exactly the
    same.

    The DOP recipe and indeed the whole DOP issue is, to my mind, a
    guarantee that manufacture will stay where it is. Just as the method of
    making champagne has been restricted by law to the Champagne region and
    no other region my call its sparkling wine "champagne," the DOP Pesto
    Genovese method seems to seek to insure that only pesto made in that
    region may call be called Genovese and all others must be called
    something else. It uses an interestingly closed-minded approach,
    apparently assuming that by mandating ingredients the originate in the
    limited region it may preserve the integrity of the product (granted,
    the actual method of making pesto is hardly unique and hardly patentable
    as was the Champagne method). Genovese basil experiment points out only
    one of the intrinsic variability possible in items bearing the same
    name. Your basil and your friend's ex's basil both made a delicious
    product, but each was different although the ingredients had the right
    pedigrees. Even basil springing from the same source may differ.
    Cuttings propagated from a single plant will taste the same, but plants
    grown from the seeds of that first plant may produce basil that is
    different thanks to cross pollination. It's a natural variation.
    "Champagnes" don't all taste alike and recipes are necessarily imprecise
    because fruit and vines vary, but the method for champagne is always the
    same and it is the Champagne method that is protected.

    ************

    Oh, I see the problem. I did misspeak (miswrite?). My intent was to say
    that the Champagne method is the only acceptable method for Champagne
    production and that any other means disqualified it as Champagne, and
    that any other sparkling wine made using the Champagne method outside
    the Champagne region cannot be called Champagne. That is how it equates
    to your holding DOP Pesto Genovese as the one true pesto, while
    admittedly straying from the bible with the defense that it doesn't matter.

    As for finding "something better to write," I'm not required to.

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