Open Pro 32/32 vs Deep V 20/24

20+ is about right, but if you don't want to trade weight for aero, maybe Ritchey semi-deep 20/24 @
90gm lighter per rim. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles
"Where art meets science"
brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420
bicyclette <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less
spokes is better than Open Pro type aerodynamically. Does this benefit
kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other categories Reliab and
Weight there is not much between them?

"Bruni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

20+ is about right, but if you don't want to trade weight for aero, maybe Ritchey semi-deep 20/24
@ 90gm lighter per rim. Tom

I own a pair of Ritchey Pro wheels. Very nice for the money I paid. Check out your local Felt dealer
for tradeouts. I saw a pair at Supergo for $99.

I'm a lard-ass right now, my Ritcheys are the 20/28 lacing and are still holding up fine.

Mike

Quoted message said:

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Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 bicyclette <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than Open
Pro type aerodynamically. Does this benefit kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other
categories Reliab and Weight there is not much between them?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Bicyclette
Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than Open Pro
type aerodynamically. Does this benefit kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other categories
Reliab and Weight there is not much between them?

You're going to get killed in the sidewinds.

BaCardi said:

Bicyclette wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than Open
Pro type aerodynamically. Does this

benefit > kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other categories Reliab and > Weight there is
not much between them?

Quoted message said:

You're going to get killed in the sidewinds.

I agree. My Rolfs are a pain when the wind is blowing, and they're not even as deep as many rims
these days. Gimme traditional rims any day.

BTW, if this supposed aerodynamic advantage exists at all, I'd say it's at more like 28 MPH, and for
people who can go that fast all the time.

Matt O.

Generally speaking I'd say go for the wheels with more spokes but you could also "split the
difference" with Velocity Fusion or Mavic CXP33, 28h rear, 24 front. CXP33 does not come in 24h but
Fusion does.

You could also use a 36h Velocity Aerohead OC rear rim and 32h front. Lighter than the DeepVs,
lighter even than the Open Pros, should be at least as reliable as the 32h Open Pros, and still
"aero" although I'd say don't worry about that.

-Bruce-

"bicyclette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than Open Pro
type aerodynamically. Does this benefit kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other categories
Reliab and Weight there is not much between them?

eddie-<< Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than
Open Pro type aerodynamically. Does this benefit kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other
categories Reliab and Weight there is not much between them? >><BR><BR>

Why not a Deep V with 28f/32r using oval DT spokes?? 20 spokes weigh about 120 grams, BUT the rims
weigh about 150 gram more each...in other words, don't intentionally make a less reliable wheel to
save a few grams.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why not a Deep V with 28f/32r using oval DT spokes?? 20 spokes weigh about

120

Quoted message said:

grams, BUT the rims weigh about 150 gram more each...in other words, don't intentionally make a
less reliable wheel to save a few grams.

Peter Chisholm

I'm not sure I understand you. Over here, the thought is to use the Open Pro, because it IS more
reliable than other rims, including CXP-33 (maybe similar to the Deep V, which I don't know). Are
you suggesting that the Open Pro is less reliable ? And where have all the rim makers gone ? It
seems they want to sell whole wheels, now, and not rims. Fortunately, there are plenty of good
artisans here ...
--

Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

"BaCardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Bicyclette said:

Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than Open
Pro type aerodynamically. Does this benefit kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other
categories Reliab and Weight there is not much between them?

You're going to get killed in the sidewinds.

Nonsense. A 30 mm deep rim isn't a problem even for mass start racing under very windy conditions
(unless perhaps you're much lighter than average).

Andy Coggan

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

BaCardi said:

Bicyclette wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it pretty much accepted now that Velocity Deep V type with less spokes is better than
Open Pro type aerodynamically. Does this

benefit > kick in only above about 20 mph? And in other categories Reliab and > Weight there
is not much between them?

Quoted message said:

You're going to get killed in the sidewinds.

I agree. My Rolfs are a pain when the wind is blowing, and they're not

even as

Quoted message said:

deep as many rims these days. Gimme traditional rims any day.

BTW, if this supposed aerodynamic advantage exists at all, I'd say it's at

more

Quoted message said:

like 28 MPH, and for people who can go that fast all the time.

The problem with your 'cost-benefit' analysis is that you can easily perceive the effect of your
Rolfs on your bike's handling, but not upon your speed. However, just because you can't tell that
you're going faster doesn't mean that you aren't - those who realize this and recognize the
competitive advantage provided by aerodynamic equipment are much more willing to put up with any
negative aspects.

Andy ("aero wheels for every race"😉 Coggan

Andy Coggan said:

The problem with your 'cost-benefit' analysis is that you can easily perceive the effect of your
Rolfs on your bike's handling, but not upon your speed.

Er, most of us have these things called "cyclecomputers" which measure such effects.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!

David Damerell said:

Andy Coggan said:

The problem with your 'cost-benefit' analysis is that you can easily perceive the effect of your
Rolfs on your bike's handling, but not upon your speed.

Er, most of us have these things called "cyclecomputers" which measure such effects.

My cyclecomputer has never told me why I went faster than on the previous day. For example a gain of
0.5 km/h in average speed from a different set of wheels would be difficult to reliably perceive
with just a cyclecomputer. The gain is quite significant in racing, though.

I'm not saying the Deep V wheels are that much faster than Open Pro wheels (probably not), but I
don't see any reason not to choose the more aerodynamic pair of wheels for racing. After all, you
must have a set of wheels, so why not make it a good one for the purpose.

-as

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

The problem with your 'cost-benefit' analysis is that you can easily perceive the effect of your
Rolfs on your bike's handling, but not upon

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speed.

Er, most of us have these things called "cyclecomputers" which measure such effects.

When cycling outdoors, it's hard to measure the benefit of aero wheels even using a powermeter
(although with care and the right venue, it can be done). To try to do so using just a speedometer
is, at best, a Herculian task.

Andy Coggan

Quoted message said:

I'm not saying the Deep V wheels are that much faster than Open Pro wheels (probably not), but I
don't see any reason not to choose the more aerodynamic pair of wheels for racing. After all, you
must have a set of wheels, so why not make it a good one for the purpose.

-as

Quote: I'm not saying the Deep V wheels are that much faster than Open Pro wheels"

I will. I've built a pair of 24/24s for a neighbor. MUCH faster than OPs.

Probably not quite as good as my Zipps or Cosmics...

Definitely faster than a pair of 32 hole OPs.

The best way I can describe it is that aero wheels allow me to ride one gear bigger (physically
smaller size) with the same effort.

Mike

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Smmb
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why not a Deep V with 28f/32r using oval DT spokes?? 20 spokes weigh about

120

Quoted message said:

grams, BUT the rims weigh about 150 gram more each...in other words, don't intentionally make a
less reliable wheel to save a few grams.

Peter Chisholm

I'm not sure I understand you. Over here, the thought is to use the Open Pro, because it IS more
reliable than other rims, including CXP-33 (maybe similar to the Deep V, which I don't know). Are
you suggesting that the Open Pro is less reliable ? And where have all the rim makers gone ? It
seems they want to sell whole wheels, now, and not rims. Fortunately, there are plenty of good
artisans here ...
--

Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR

That was what he was trying to say. So, if you want Open 4's, then look elsewhere. He's a proponent of Aero rims.

bacardi-<< That was what he was trying to say. So, if you want Open 4's, then look elsewhere. He's a
proponent of Aero rims.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Nope, I am not. I match the rim, spoke count, to the rider's needs.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

The best way I can describe it is that aero wheels allow me to ride

one gear

Quoted message said:

bigger (physically smaller size) with the same effort.

Mike

Wow! Can you really change an entire gear with the same effort?! What speed are you talking about or
is at all speeds? What are the 2 actual gear ratios in question?

"bicyclette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The best way I can describe it is that aero wheels allow me to ride

one gear

Quoted message said:

bigger (physically smaller size) with the same effort.

Mike

Wow! Can you really change an entire gear with the same effort?! What speed are you talking about
or is at all speeds? What are the 2 actual gear ratios in question?

Smartass.

...but I'll answer anyway.

When I'm riding along in say the 53/15 on my Reflex wheels, I could be doing 53/14 with the same
effort riding my Cosmics.

Riding along going slow (20mph or less), all aero wheels are are big, heavy wheels that don't do
anything but cost a lot. I normally train on Reflex, MA40s, GL330s, or Ritchey "Aero" wheels. For
going fast, say intervals getting up to about 50kph or so, I'll ride my aero wheels.

That answer your question?

Mike

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

BTW, if this supposed aerodynamic advantage exists at all, I'd say it's at more like 28 MPH, and
for people who can go that fast all the time.

Matt O.

I would imagine the aero benefit kicks in pretty much as soon as you move forward. Aero wheels
produce less drag. The drag reduction would, in absolute terms, increase with speed but the
percentage benefit might be greater when slower because you are out there for longer.

I am sure there is an equation for this, but I don't know it.

Jason