OT: Alcohol & health



Stick to running and forget about reading the Wall Street Journal
reporting statistical garbage on medicine and health.>
Look at the source? It was Lance, our new "head idiot".
 
>How about this: I'll stick to assembling facts from all sides of an
issue,
deciding for myself based on this best available evidence, and not
taking
the advice of know it alls such as Bob, who apparently has determined
that
his conclusions are to be followed without examination. And its hardly
off
topic as feared by the OP. A beer or seven after a run (and sometimes
before) is quite a pleasure.>


You haven't figured out "Bob" yet? He's a TROLL, a good one, but still
a troll. Of course he's an asshole too, but a TROLL #1.
 
More likely due to your already good physical
conditioning. Try it everyday; I guarantee your
performance will go down.>

Not true! When this firs came to the front of the news, myself, and two
running buddys did an experiment only adding a shot of booze to our
daily regimes. Bottom line? After 6 months there was no change
whatsoever in our times, or how we felt.
 
>Anyone else here thinking Bob is a bit angry and argumentative and
could
really use a good strong drink to chill out?>
I agree. But a drink won't make him stop being a know-it-all asshole.
 
>Bob was giving his expert opinion that the stated conclusions were
not warranted from facts partially and inaccurately given.>
He's not a runner, just a jerkoff. That equals TROLL!
 
Tom Phillips Jan 1, 9:50 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: Tom Phillips <[email protected]> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 22:50:46 -0700
Local: Sat, Jan 1 2005 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: OT: Alcohol & health
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Doug Freese wrote:




> "bikeme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:zgKBd.5858$EG1.1559@lakeread04...
> >> Anyone else here thinking Bob is a bit angry and argumentative and
> >> could

> > really use a good strong drink to chill out?


> Or get his pipes cleaned.




> =====================
> Alcohol And Health
> Moderate drinkers tend to have better health and live longer than

those
> who are either abstainers...



That's bull ****, Doug :) As you well know,
there are people who abuse their health and
>live long lives, and people who don't abuse

their health and live long lives. Course more
people who do abuse their health tend to die
younger than those who don't. But frankly,
unless one is an alcohol addict/abuser, I don't
think it has zip to do with how long you live.
Just drinkers looking for an excuse to justify
their habit rather than just accept they drink
and it's ain't necessarily good for them.>

Hey asswipe, try to distinguish between an alchohol abuser, and a
person who has 1 drink a day.
 
Toms mom and dad were abusive drunks, who abused him constantly.
 
>
> i'm with Doug...alcohol is evil and you're all deluding yourselves...but
> keep doing it because alcohol destroys brain cells ON CONTACT so
> eventually i'm bound to be smarter than at least one of you.


i mean i'm with Tom...jeez, must've killed to many brain cells ON CONTACT
over the holiday.

>
>>

>
>
 
..
>
> All those "heavy drinkers" were once
> "moderate drinkers. I think there's a
> clue there.
>


i would dispute this...i've known far too many alcoholics and i would say
the trip from "moderate" drinker to "heavy" drinker is an VERY short one.
some people are just wired in such a way where one drink is one drink too
many.


note: "wired" is used scientifically here and in no way refers to female
wrestlers and boxers...except when it does.
 
Ted wrote:
> More likely due to your already good physical
> conditioning. Try it everyday; I guarantee your
> performance will go down.>
>
> Not true! When this firs came to the front of the news, myself, and

two
> running buddys did an experiment only adding a shot of booze to our
> daily regimes. Bottom line? After 6 months there was no change
> whatsoever in our times, or how we felt.
>


After 6 months of training and no change in performance? Gee, I wonder
what was holding you back.

tkb
 
Ted wrote:
> >Anyone else here thinking Bob is a bit angry and argumentative
> >and could really use a good strong drink to chill out?

>
> I agree. But a drink won't make him stop being a know-it-all asshole.


But it made YOU though.

Ted, you're such a pitiful mental midget amd semse;ess drimlard.
I am just toying with you for cheap entertainment now.
 
SwStudio wrote:
>
> "Tom Phillips" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > SwStudio wrote:
> > I hate to let you down, but it ain't the alcohol. There
> > is simply no end to silly justifications for drinking.
> > Why people won't admit they drink to get high is beyond
> > me.

>
> It's obvious you take this personally and have some sort of
> axe to grind, Tom.


Ah, David, you're the one who threw down the gauntlet
and challenged (in absence of any facts whatsoever) a
"glass of wine a day) has been shown in studies..."

This is a typically deliberate mangling of what those
scientific studies _actually_ report, which I do cite
below for your reading pleasure...

> > Youir ignorance is simply astounding.

>
> Tell me how you really feel, Tom. Get it all out.


Have you ever actually _read_ even one of the studies
you cited in absentia? Likely as with most others you
simply repeat the media's misinformation. Perhaps
"uninformed" would have been a less offensive adjective
in your case. But it still adds up to ignorance on the
subject.

> > Alcohol is a drug and is known/proven to have
> > deliterious effects on human physiology. Only someone
> > in denial and looking for justification for the alcohol
> > induced "high" claims it's the alcohol that is
> > "healthy."

>
> That's me! I have to admit to going to bars nightly and staggering
> home because I think it's damn good for me. Hopefully my denial
> will come to an end soon. We all have our vices. Yours appears
> to be taking people's statements wildly out of context


And your's appears to be citing studies out of context,
while ignoring the scientific fact that alcohol itself
is not beneficial to human physiology. By itself it has
almost zero health benefit except in medical use. It's
a poisonous chemical.

>in order to
> display an unusually high degree of anger towards people's reasons
> for drinking.


I could care less if _you_ drink -- long as you don't
drink and then drive or beat your wife :). What people
put in their bodies is their business. What I do
get ruffled at is people who blindly repeat lies about
a product that kills 100,000 folks a year but don't
tell them the health benefits aren't exclusive to
fermentation. P.T. Barnum's (there's a sucker born
every minute) has nothing on the Wine Industry.

Here's the factual scientific context as actually
reported by one such study:

Excerpt from "Red Wine Increases the Expression of Human
Endothelial Nitric Oxide Synthase, A Mechanism That May
Contribute to its Beneficial Cardiovascular Effects. Thomas
Wallerath, PHD, Daniela Poleo, Huige Li, MD, PHD, Ulrich
Forstermann, MD, PHD Mainz, Germany. Journal of the American
College of Cardiology Vol. 41, No. 3, 2003

www.acc.org/media/releases/highlights/2003/feb03/wine.pdf
© 2003 by the American College of Cardiology Foundation ISSN

(***EMPHASIS IS ADDED)

"INGREDIENTS OF GRAPES ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR eNOS UPREGULATION."

"Moderate alcohol intake, ***ALSO FROM BEVERAGES OTHER THAN
[FERMENTED] WINE***, has been shown to lower the risk of
cardiovascular disease (4–6). However, the ethanol content of red
wine is unlikely to be responsible for the upregulation of eNOS
expression observed here, because the equivalent amount of
ethanol (1.25%, v/v) alone produced only a marginal upregulation
of eNOS (Fig. 1), and all subsequent experiments (Figs. 2–6) were
performed with appropriate ethanol controls. In addition, German
red wines (which were largely ineffective) and French red wines
have the same alcohol content. Also, no difference was detected
between "en barrique" and "non-barrique"-produced red wines made
from the same grapes, ***SUGGESTING THAT THE COMPOUNDS
STIMULATING eNOS expression DERIVE FROM THE GRAPES RATHER THAN
FROM THE BARREL STAVES.*** The numerous phenolic acids,
polyphenols, and flavonoids contained in red wine are likely
candidates, probably mediating the expressional upregulation of
eNOS."

-------------
MORE FROM:
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ mi_m0826/is_2_19/ai_99987034

Wine benefits without the wine - Lifelines - Brief Article
Vibrant Life,  March-April, 2003  

While wine's supposed health benefits continue to be a focus of
many media reports, there are many ways to get the
health-protective properties of wine into your diet without any
alcohol.

Remember, there's nothing in wine that isn't in grapes, except
for the alcohol. So add a variety of red and purple table grapes
to your diet. Also, most berries, plums, currants, and other
deep-red or deep-blue fruits are excellent sources of anthocyanin
phenols found in wine. And quercetin, another phytonutrient in
wine, is actually more abundant in apples with skin. Onions,
whole buckwheat, oranges, and grapefruits provide some too. A
healthy dose of colorful fruits and vegetables provides many
other health-protective nutrients not found in wine.

-------------
MORE FROM: http://www.red-wine-and-health.com/

Healing Powers of Antioxidants: The compounds found in red wine
that are responsible for its healing powers are antioxidants. Red
wines contain several antioxidants beneficial to good health.
Different antioxidants have different functions, but the key
feature of all these antioxidants appears to be one of protection
and prevention of disease.

Red Wine Research Focuses On Chemicals In The Grape

Resveratrol and Other Red Wine Antioxidants

One of the most studied antioxidants in red wine is resveratrol,
a compound found in the seeds and skins of grapes. Red wine has a
high concentration of resveratrol because the skins and seeds
ferment in the grapes' juices during the red wine-making process.
This prolonged contact during fermentation produces significant
levels of resveratrol in the finished red wine. White wine also
contains resveratrol, but the seeds and skins are removed early
in the white wine-making process, reducing the concentration of
the compound in the finished white wine.

Antioxidants, like resveratrol, are beneficial in preventing
harmful elements in the body from attacking healthy cells. Found
in red wine, peanuts, blueberries and cranberries, resveratrol is
easily absorbed by the human body. The antioxidant properties of
resveratrol also offer certain health benefits in the prevention
of heart disease and the reduction of lung tissue inflammation in
chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).
 
Doug Freese wrote:
>
> "Tom Phillips" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> abstainers...
> >
> > That's bull ****, Doug :)

>
> Tom, I'm only citing science. ;)


Me too. See my reply to David :)

> > As you well know,
> > there are people who abuse their health and
> > live long lives, and people who don't abuse
> > their health and live long lives. Course more
> > people who do abuse their health tend to die
> > younger than those who don't. But frankly,
> > unless one is an alcohol addict/abuser, I don't
> > think it has zip to do with how long you live.

>
> You may be right. As with many of these correlation studies and the
> use/abuse of statistics(statistics, dammed statistics and lies) they
> can draw a conclusion that foot size and month of birth are also
> factors. OTOH I do run and play with a few Md's and although they make
> **** poor patients they also feel that drinking in moderation is just
> fine.


Course I've never said people who imbibe moderately
assume health risks -- an addiction risk perhaps.
But I also am citing science (the part of such
studies that never get reported by media) that it's
not the alcohol that is beneficial but the other
ingredents in alcoholic beverages (e.g., the grapes
in wine, grains, etc.) The alcohol itself is
detrimental to human physiology. Just how detrimental
does depend on the amount consumed and whether short
or long term (i.e., alcohol abuse.)

> It's true that no one has done long termed controlled studies to
> prove this(that I know of) but there seems to be enough data points that
> my Heineken or Cabernet will not help bury me.
>
> Let's just say based on the current information I will continue this
> personal vice. ;)


I never doubted it for a moment. Not trying
to change anyone's habits, and in your case
likely would be a monumental effort :)

> > Sort of like heads in the 60's who used to
> > justify a daily joint by saying "it's a
> > natural drug." In fact, I think I used to say
> > that :)

>
> You mean it wasn't. I grew my own and it was very natural. ;)


hmmm...what's the statute of limitations on
cultivating a controlled substance?

Natural yes; probably not too healthy for
long term reefer heads I know.
 
Tom Phillips wrote:

> Antioxidants, like resveratrol, are beneficial in preventing
> harmful elements in the body from attacking healthy cells. Found
> in red wine, peanuts, blueberries and cranberries, resveratrol is
> easily absorbed by the human body. The antioxidant properties of
> resveratrol also offer certain health benefits in the prevention
> of heart disease and the reduction of lung tissue inflammation in
> chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).


I take a blueberry and another mix of darkly colored fruit extracts on
account of this. The blueberry research on rats is quite interesting (good
effects balance and running speed). Go polyphenols!

-- Dan
 
Dan Stumpus wrote:
>
> Tom Phillips wrote:
>
> > Antioxidants, like resveratrol, are beneficial in preventing
> > harmful elements in the body from attacking healthy cells. Found
> > in red wine, peanuts, blueberries and cranberries, resveratrol is
> > easily absorbed by the human body. The antioxidant properties of
> > resveratrol also offer certain health benefits in the prevention
> > of heart disease and the reduction of lung tissue inflammation in
> > chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

>
> I take a blueberry and another mix of darkly colored fruit extracts on
> account of this. The blueberry research on rats is quite interesting (good
> effects balance and running speed). Go polyphenols!
>
> -- Dan




Hmmm...any blueberries in doug's beer?
 
Tom Phillips said...

[...]
>But just short term, it's
>a medical fact alcohol kills brain cells on contact.


I believe you will find that Miss Ann Throp will explain that runners are
pretty much immune to this side-effect. ;-)
 
Tom Phillips said...

[...]
>But just short term, it's
>a medical fact alcohol kills brain cells on contact.


I believe you will find that Miss Ann Throp will explain that runners are
pretty much immune to this side-effect. ;-)
 
Dan Stumpus wrote:
>
> Of course, there are associated risks -- oral and esophageal cancer

risks go
> up (but these are much rarer than the above maladies), and drinking

too much
> causes moral decay, pollutes our vital bodily fluids, etc.
>
> So take heart, Doug!
>
> -- Dan


Of course, if you can just stop at having one drink then that's fine. I
gave up drinking last August and haven't regretted a day of it. :)
Martha
 
Dan Stumpus wrote:
>
> Of course, there are associated risks -- oral and esophageal cancer

risks go
> up (but these are much rarer than the above maladies), and drinking

too much
> causes moral decay, pollutes our vital bodily fluids, etc.
>
> So take heart, Doug!
>
> -- Dan


Of course, if you can just stop at having one drink then that's fine. I
gave up drinking last August and haven't regretted a day of it. :)
Martha