General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

OT: Another victory for science!

Started by WillBrink · · Last activity · 52 posts · 1,010 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
20 December 2005
Last activity
29 December 2005
Original author
WillBrink
Posts
52
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,010
Views / 30 days
0
Topics

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 52
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said
    Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    since the 1925 Scopes trial.
    ADVERTISEMENT

    Dover Area School Board members violated the Constitution when they
    ordered that its biology curriculum include the notion that life on
    Earth was produced by an unidentified intelligent cause, U.S. District
    Judge John E. Jones III said. Several members repeatedly lied to cover
    their motives, he said.

    The ruling will not likely be appealed by the slate of new board
    members, who in the November election ousted the group that installed
    intelligent design, the new board president said Tuesday.

    The school board policy, adopted in October 2004, was believed to have
    been the first of its kind in the nation.

    "The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of the
    Board who voted for the ID Policy," Jones wrote, calling the board's
    decision "breathtaking inanity."

    "The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District
    deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its
    resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources," he wrote.

    The board's attorneys had said members were seeking to improve science
    education by exposing students to alternatives to Charles Darwin's
    theory that evolution develops through natural selection.
    Intelligent-design proponents argue that the theory cannot fully explain
    the existence of complex life forms.

    The plaintiffs challenging the policy argued that intelligent design
    amounts to a secular repackaging of biblical creationism, which the
    courts have already ruled cannot be taught in public schools.

    The judge agreed.

    "We find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a
    pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in
    the public school classroom," he wrote in his 139-page opinion.

    The Dover policy required students to hear a statement about intelligent
    design before ninth-grade biology lessons on evolution. The statement
    said Darwin's theory is "not a fact" and has inexplicable "gaps." It
    refers students to an intelligent-design textbook, "Of Pandas and
    People," for more information.

    Jones wrote that he wasn't saying the intelligent design concept
    shouldn't be studied and discussed, saying its advocates "have bona fide
    and deeply held beliefs which drive their scholarly endeavors."

    However, he wrote, "our conclusion today is that it is unconstitutional
    to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science
    classroom."

    The controversy divided the borough of Dover and surrounding Dover
    Township, a rural area of nearly 20,000 residents about 20 miles south
    of Harrisburg. It galvanized voters to oust eight incumbent school board
    members who supported the policy in the Nov. 8 school board election.
    The ninth board member was not up for re-election.

    Said the judge: "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who so
    staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public,
    would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real
    purpose behind the ID Policy."

    The board members were replaced by a slate of eight opponents who
    pledged to remove intelligent design from the science curriculum.

    They also will likely drop the old plan now that the judge has ruled,
    new board president Bernadette Reinking said. "As far as I can tell you,
    there is no intent to appeal," she said.

    Reinking said the new board will likely move the subject of intelligent
    design into some undetermined elective social studies class. She said
    the board will need to talk to its attorney before determining specific
    actions.

    Eric Rothschild, lead attorney for the families who challenged the
    policy, called the ruling "a real vindication for the parents who had
    the courage to stand up and say there was something wrong in their
    school district."

    Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law
    Center in Ann Arbor, Mich., which represented the school board, did not
    return a telephone message seeking comment.

    It was the latest chapter in a debate over the teaching of evolution
    dating back to the famous 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial, in which Tennessee
    biology teacher John T. Scopes was fined $100 for violating a state law
    that forbade teaching evolution. The Tennessee Supreme Court reversed
    his conviction on a technicality, and the law was repealed in 1967.

    Jones heard arguments in the fall during a six-week trial in which
    expert witnesses for each side debated intelligent design's scientific
    merits. Other witnesses, including current and former school board
    members, disagreed over whether creationism was discussed in board
    meetings months before the curriculum change was adopted.

    It is among at least a handful of cases that have focused new attention
    on the teaching of evolution in the nation's schools.

    Earlier this month, a federal appeals court in Georgia heard arguments
    over evolution disclaimer stickers placed in a biology textbooks. A
    federal judge in January had ordered Cobb County school officials to
    immediately remove the stickers, which called evolution a theory, not a
    fact.

    In November, state education officials in Kansas adopted new classroom
    science standards that call the theory of evolution into question.

    --
    Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

  2. "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said
    Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    Quoted message said:

    ADVERTISEMENT

    Dover Area School Board members violated the Constitution when they
    ordered that its biology curriculum include the notion that life on
    Earth was produced by an unidentified intelligent cause, U.S. District
    Judge John E. Jones III said. Several members repeatedly lied to cover
    their motives, he said.

    The ruling will not likely be appealed by the slate of new board
    members, who in the November election ousted the group that installed
    intelligent design, the new board president said Tuesday.

    The school board policy, adopted in October 2004, was believed to have
    been the first of its kind in the nation.

    "The citizens of the Dover area were poorly served by the members of
    the
    Board who voted for the ID Policy," Jones wrote, calling the board's
    decision "breathtaking inanity."

    "The students, parents, and teachers of the Dover Area School District
    deserved better than to be dragged into this legal maelstrom, with its
    resulting utter waste of monetary and personal resources," he wrote.

    The board's attorneys had said members were seeking to improve science
    education by exposing students to alternatives to Charles Darwin's
    theory that evolution develops through natural selection.
    Intelligent-design proponents argue that the theory cannot fully
    explain
    the existence of complex life forms.

    The plaintiffs challenging the policy argued that intelligent design
    amounts to a secular repackaging of biblical creationism, which the
    courts have already ruled cannot be taught in public schools.

    The judge agreed.

    "We find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a
    pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in
    the public school classroom," he wrote in his 139-page opinion.

    The Dover policy required students to hear a statement about
    intelligent
    design before ninth-grade biology lessons on evolution. The statement
    said Darwin's theory is "not a fact" and has inexplicable "gaps." It
    refers students to an intelligent-design textbook, "Of Pandas and
    People," for more information.

    Jones wrote that he wasn't saying the intelligent design concept
    shouldn't be studied and discussed, saying its advocates "have bona
    fide
    and deeply held beliefs which drive their scholarly endeavors."

    However, he wrote, "our conclusion today is that it is
    unconstitutional
    to teach ID as an alternative to evolution in a public school science
    classroom."

    The controversy divided the borough of Dover and surrounding Dover
    Township, a rural area of nearly 20,000 residents about 20 miles south
    of Harrisburg. It galvanized voters to oust eight incumbent school
    board
    members who supported the policy in the Nov. 8 school board election.
    The ninth board member was not up for re-election.

    Said the judge: "It is ironic that several of these individuals, who
    so
    staunchly and proudly touted their religious convictions in public,
    would time and again lie to cover their tracks and disguise the real
    purpose behind the ID Policy."

    The board members were replaced by a slate of eight opponents who
    pledged to remove intelligent design from the science curriculum.

    They also will likely drop the old plan now that the judge has ruled,
    new board president Bernadette Reinking said. "As far as I can tell
    you,
    there is no intent to appeal," she said.

    Reinking said the new board will likely move the subject of
    intelligent
    design into some undetermined elective social studies class. She said
    the board will need to talk to its attorney before determining
    specific
    actions.

    Eric Rothschild, lead attorney for the families who challenged the
    policy, called the ruling "a real vindication for the parents who had
    the courage to stand up and say there was something wrong in their
    school district."

    Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law
    Center in Ann Arbor, Mich., which represented the school board, did
    not
    return a telephone message seeking comment.

    It was the latest chapter in a debate over the teaching of evolution
    dating back to the famous 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial, in which Tennessee
    biology teacher John T. Scopes was fined $100 for violating a state
    law
    that forbade teaching evolution. The Tennessee Supreme Court reversed
    his conviction on a technicality, and the law was repealed in 1967.

    Jones heard arguments in the fall during a six-week trial in which
    expert witnesses for each side debated intelligent design's scientific
    merits. Other witnesses, including current and former school board
    members, disagreed over whether creationism was discussed in board
    meetings months before the curriculum change was adopted.

    It is among at least a handful of cases that have focused new
    attention
    on the teaching of evolution in the nation's schools.

    Earlier this month, a federal appeals court in Georgia heard arguments
    over evolution disclaimer stickers placed in a biology textbooks. A
    federal judge in January had ordered Cobb County school officials to
    immediately remove the stickers, which called evolution a theory, not
    a
    fact.

    In November, state education officials in Kansas adopted new classroom
    science standards that call the theory of evolution into question.

    My biggest complaint with the Right hasn't anything to do with
    politics - it's the lack of separation of church and state, one of the
    principles this country was founded on and should remain based on. Just
    call me an ultra-conservative. 🙂

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  3. "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said
    Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    It's hard for me to consider it a victory. Just the fact that it had to be
    adjudicated in a court, that anybody would even consider "intelligent
    design" as something to be mentioned outside of a religion class, is a loss
    for what little rational faculty remains in modern society.

    David

  4. "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said
    Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    It's hard for me to consider it a victory. Just the fact that it had to
    be adjudicated in a court, that anybody would even consider "intelligent
    design" as something to be mentioned outside of a religion class, is a
    loss for what little rational faculty remains in modern society.

    David

    Re-read the story. The school board members pushing the change had their
    fannies booted at the next election.

    Hugh

    --
    Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
    chocolate. ("Ladi"😉

  5. "Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote >

    Quoted message said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote
    > By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    > 22 minutes ago
    >
    > HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    > classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said
    > Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    > since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    It's hard for me to consider it a victory. Just the fact that it had to
    be adjudicated in a court, that anybody would even consider "intelligent
    design" as something to be mentioned outside of a religion class, is a
    loss for what little rational faculty remains in modern society.

    Re-read the story. The school board members pushing the change had their
    fannies booted at the next election.

    Yes, I know. My point was that the fact that we are even talking about this
    outside of Sunday School is disturbing.

    The US Public School system is slowly decaying. Standards are lessening,
    teachers are more and more incompetant, and grades are becoming politically
    incorrect (we wouldn't want Dally's kids to FEEL bad about getting a D+,
    better they be given a "good effort, chakras well aligned"😉.

    I've [censored] here before about my daughter's history teacher managing to
    discuss the fall of the Berlin Wall without ever mentioning the name Ronald
    Reagan. And the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" being taught as a lesson in
    the myth of global warming. Now I'll have to [censored] about religion being
    taught in science class.

    Damn, I'm a [censored].

    David

  6. "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The US Public School system is slowly decaying. Standards are lessening,
    teachers are more and more incompetant,

    Incompetent.

    Perhaps the teachers weren't all that competent back in the dark ages when
    you went to school. Perhaps the US Public School System was never as good
    as you're trying to imply.

    Quoted message said:


    Damn, I'm a [censored].

    David

  7. "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    The US Public School system is slowly decaying. Standards are lessening,
    teachers are more and more incompetant,

    Incompetent.

    Perhaps the teachers weren't all that competent back in the dark ages when
    you went to school. Perhaps the US Public School System was never as good
    as you're trying to imply.

    Speling flamme! The depts to witch MFW haz faullun 🙁

    David

  8. Steve Freides said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:[email hidden]
    s.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in
    biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a
    federal judge said Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest


    courtroom

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clashes on evolution since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    Don't get too excited. As soon as Justice O'Conner is gone and
    Alito replaces her, and this issue reaches the Supreme Court,
    mentioning intelligent design will be allowed in schools.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    In November, state education officials in Kansas adopted new
    classroom science standards that call the theory of evolution


    into

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    question.

    My biggest complaint with the Right hasn't anything to do with
    politics - it's the lack of separation of church and state,


    one of

    Quoted message said:

    the principles this country was founded on and should remain


    based

    Quoted message said:

    on. Just call me an ultra-conservative. 🙂

    Wrong. There's nothing in the U.S. Constitution about a
    'separation of church and state'. You need to bring yourself up
    to speed on the Establishment Clause and why it was added. Do it
    now so you won't be shocked when the NEW Supreme Court starts
    making rulings that actually follow the Constitution as it was
    written. If you don't, you'll be really, really mad when it
    happens.

    locker

    Quoted message said:


    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  9. JC Der Koenig said:

    Perhaps the teachers weren't all that competent back in the dark ages when
    you went to school. Perhaps the US Public School System was never as good
    as you're trying to imply.


    The diff then and now was in controlling the intake. Today's public
    schools have been set a different mission than then which includes
    having to provide for the worst from a deteriorating pool of students.
    Can you imagine the schools of the 60's being told they must TEACH in
    any language they encounter from the debris washing up on US's shores?

    As far as I.D., the schools foment all sorts of myths such as (as David
    says) global warming. I can't see one further myth being all that bad.
    That is, I.D. isn't as bad as some other myths being taught.

  10. If that really happene we will be in alot better shape but it never
    will. The Corporations would lose all there power.

    locker said:
    Steve Freides said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]
    s.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in
    biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a
    federal judge said Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest

    courtroom

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clashes on evolution since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    Don't get too excited. As soon as Justice O'Conner is gone and
    Alito replaces her, and this issue reaches the Supreme Court,
    mentioning intelligent design will be allowed in schools.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In November, state education officials in Kansas adopted new
    classroom science standards that call the theory of evolution

    into

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    question.

    My biggest complaint with the Right hasn't anything to do with
    politics - it's the lack of separation of church and state,

    one of

    Quoted message said:

    the principles this country was founded on and should remain

    based

    Quoted message said:

    on. Just call me an ultra-conservative. 🙂

    Wrong. There's nothing in the U.S. Constitution about a
    'separation of church and state'. You need to bring yourself up
    to speed on the Establishment Clause and why it was added. Do it
    now so you won't be shocked when the NEW Supreme Court starts
    making rulings that actually follow the Constitution as it was
    written. If you don't, you'll be really, really mad when it
    happens.

    locker

    Quoted message said:

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  11. "Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    JC Der Koenig said:

    Perhaps the teachers weren't all that competent back in the dark ages
    when you went to school. Perhaps the US Public School System was never
    as good as you're trying to imply.


    The diff then and now was in controlling the intake. Today's public
    schools have been set a different mission than then which includes having
    to provide for the worst from a deteriorating pool of students. Can you
    imagine the schools of the 60's being told they must TEACH in any language
    they encounter from the debris washing up on US's shores?

    Many of the people I attended school with in the 60's and 70's never
    mastered reading, writing, or arithmetic; and most of those went on to drop
    out at an early age. The teachers from back then may have done a better job
    educating the most academically proficient 20% of the population, but beyond
    that they didn't do much at all. Have you ever heard of Dexter Manley?

  12. "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote >

    Quoted message said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote
    > "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote
    >> By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    >> 22 minutes ago
    >>
    >> HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    >> classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge


    said

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    >> since the 1925 Scopes trial.
    >
    > Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    It's hard for me to consider it a victory. Just the fact that it had to
    be adjudicated in a court, that anybody would even consider


    "intelligent

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    design" as something to be mentioned outside of a religion class, is a
    loss for what little rational faculty remains in modern society.

    Re-read the story. The school board members pushing the change had their
    fannies booted at the next election.

    Yes, I know. My point was that the fact that we are even talking about


    this

    Quoted message said:

    outside of Sunday School is disturbing.

    The US Public School system is slowly decaying. Standards are lessening,
    teachers are more and more incompetant, and grades are becoming


    politically

    Quoted message said:

    incorrect (we wouldn't want Dally's kids to FEEL bad about getting a D+,
    better they be given a "good effort, chakras well aligned"😉.

    I've [censored] here before about my daughter's history teacher managing to
    discuss the fall of the Berlin Wall without ever mentioning the name


    Ronald

    Quoted message said:

    Reagan. And the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" being taught as a lesson in
    the myth of global warming. Now I'll have to [censored] about religion being
    taught in science class.

    Damn, I'm a [censored].

    David

    The thing I find funny is, they try to dismiss the "Theory of Evolution" as
    just a theory. As soon as they say that, they have already conceded defeat
    through ignorance and invalidated themselves. They just don't know it!

    --
    Dr. Dickie
    Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
    Poking kooks with a pointy stick.
    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'😉, but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'"
    - Isaac Asimov

  13. "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    "Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote >

    Quoted message said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote
    > "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote
    >> By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    >> 22 minutes ago
    >>
    >> HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in
    >> biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal
    >> judge said Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes
    >> on evolution since the 1925 Scopes trial.
    >
    > Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    It's hard for me to consider it a victory. Just the fact that it had
    to be adjudicated in a court, that anybody would even consider
    "intelligent design" as something to be mentioned outside of a
    religion class, is a loss for what little rational faculty remains in
    modern society.

    Re-read the story. The school board members pushing the change had
    their fannies booted at the next election.

    Yes, I know. My point was that the fact that we are even talking about
    this outside of Sunday School is disturbing.

    The US Public School system is slowly decaying. Standards are lessening,
    teachers are more and more incompetant, and grades are becoming
    politically incorrect (we wouldn't want Dally's kids to FEEL bad about
    getting a D+, better they be given a "good effort, chakras well
    aligned"😉.

    I've [censored] here before about my daughter's history teacher managing to
    discuss the fall of the Berlin Wall without ever mentioning the name
    Ronald Reagan. And the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" being taught as a
    lesson in the myth of global warming. Now I'll have to [censored] about
    religion being taught in science class.

    Using movies to teach history gives me a pain, too.

    But what's your beef with global warming? Most reputable scientists think
    ID is bunk so it's bunk, but most reputable scientists think human
    activity is altering the climate, so *they're* bunk?

    You pushing for science or ideology here? Get your story straight.

    Hugh

    --
    Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
    chocolate. ("Ladi"😉

  14. On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:18:19 -0800, "locker" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Freides said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:[email hidden]
    s.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in
    biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a
    federal judge said Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest


    courtroom

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    clashes on evolution since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    Don't get too excited. As soon as Justice O'Conner is gone and
    Alito replaces her, and this issue reaches the Supreme Court,
    mentioning intelligent design will be allowed in schools.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    In November, state education officials in Kansas adopted new
    classroom science standards that call the theory of evolution


    into

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    question.

    My biggest complaint with the Right hasn't anything to do with
    politics - it's the lack of separation of church and state,


    one of

    Quoted message said:

    the principles this country was founded on and should remain


    based

    Quoted message said:

    on. Just call me an ultra-conservative. 🙂

    Wrong. There's nothing in the U.S. Constitution about a
    'separation of church and state'. You need to bring yourself up
    to speed on the Establishment Clause and why it was added. Do it
    now so you won't be shocked when the NEW Supreme Court starts
    making rulings that actually follow the Constitution as it was
    written. If you don't, you'll be really, really mad when it
    happens.


    Very good, "Locker". You've finally posted something that wasn't
    garbage.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
    or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,

    David Cohen said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    22 minutes ago

    HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in biology
    classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said
    Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution
    since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    It's hard for me to consider it a victory. Just the fact that it had to be
    adjudicated in a court, that anybody would even consider "intelligent
    design" as something to be mentioned outside of a religion class, is a loss
    for what little rational faculty remains in modern society.

    I agree there. It's f-ing amazing that in 2005 we would even have this
    issue come up and end up in court no less, but at least the ID idiots
    are being beaten back and common sense won the day.

    --
    Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

  16. In article <[email hidden]>,

    David Cohen said:

    "JC Der Koenig" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    The US Public School system is slowly decaying. Standards are lessening,
    teachers are more and more incompetant,

    Incompetent.

    Perhaps the teachers weren't all that competent back in the dark ages when
    you went to school. Perhaps the US Public School System was never as good
    as you're trying to imply.

    Speling flamme! The depts to witch MFW haz faullun 🙁

    You lOOser.

    --
    Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

  17. "Hugh Beyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Using movies to teach history gives me a pain, too.

    But what's your beef with global warming? Most reputable scientists think
    ID is bunk so it's bunk, but most reputable scientists think human
    activity is altering the climate, so *they're* bunk?

    You pushing for science or ideology here? Get your story straight.

    Hugh


    Well, that is a slippery slope. To say that MOST REPUTABLE scientists think
    human activity is altering the climate, may be right. To say that MOST
    REPUTABLE scientists believe we are causing a greenhouse effect, I think
    would be wrong.
    Most scientists agree that there is some global warming going on, the
    reasons for it are FAR from settled.
    The left tends to try to discredit any scientist that does not get on the
    "greenhouse effect" bandwagon, so if you are biased you could say REPUTABLE
    scientist agree that we are altering the climate by greenhouse effect.
    But if you say altering the climate, what does that mean? So far, there is
    no strong evidence for the greenhouse effect> There is evidence that the CO2
    levels are rising, but the satellite data does not support the greenhouse
    effect (although just this summer, some scientists decided that we should
    simply add in a fudge factor to MAKE the satellite data fit what they want
    it to say--HA!).
    Whether or not we are altering the climate does not mean we are effecting it
    in the ways that some media darling scientists would have you believe.
    Science is not about how many people believe something--it ain't no stinking
    democracy. Reality cares not if you believe. In the end, the preponderance
    of evidence will win. On this, the jury is simply still out, and the
    hysterical chicken-littles who say otherwise, are simply wrong.

    --
    Dr. Dickie
    Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
    Poking kooks with a pointy stick.
    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
    discoveries,
    is not 'Eureka!' ('I found it!'😉, but rather 'hmm....that's funny...'"
    - Isaac Asimov

  18. Hey look everyone! [censored]-Hanson's back from his trip to the gay
    bathouses.

    John Hanson said:

    On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 01:18:19 -0800, "locker" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    misc.fitness.weights:

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Freides said:

    "WillBrink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:[email hidden]
    s.com...

    Quoted message said:

    > By MARTHA RAFFAELE, Associated Press Writer
    > 22 minutes ago
    >
    > HARRISBURG, Pa. - "Intelligent design" cannot be mentioned in
    > biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a
    > federal judge said Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest


    courtroom

    Quoted message said:

    > clashes on evolution since the 1925 Scopes trial.

    Hale-f#$%ing-llujah - it's about time.

    Don't get too excited. As soon as Justice O'Conner is gone and
    Alito replaces her, and this issue reaches the Supreme Court,
    mentioning intelligent design will be allowed in schools.

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > In November, state education officials in Kansas adopted new
    > classroom science standards that call the theory of evolution


    into

    Quoted message said:

    > question.

    My biggest complaint with the Right hasn't anything to do with
    politics - it's the lack of separation of church and state,


    one of

    Quoted message said:

    the principles this country was founded on and should remain


    based

    Quoted message said:

    on. Just call me an ultra-conservative. 🙂

    Wrong. There's nothing in the U.S. Constitution about a
    'separation of church and state'. You need to bring yourself up
    to speed on the Establishment Clause and why it was added. Do it
    now so you won't be shocked when the NEW Supreme Court starts
    making rulings that actually follow the Constitution as it was
    written. If you don't, you'll be really, really mad when it
    happens.


    Very good, "Locker". You've finally posted something that wasn't
    garbage.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
    or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
    speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
    assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

  19. Paul Cassel said:

    As far as I.D., the schools foment all sorts of myths such as (as
    David says) global warming. I can't see one further myth being all
    that bad. That is, I.D. isn't as bad as some other myths being
    taught.

    That global warming has a large component due to human activities is a
    valid scientific hypothesis. OTOH, ID is a non-falsifiable, hence a
    non-scientific hypothesis, a fraud invented to backdoor religion into
    the science class. Thereby lies the important difference. ID is always
    propagated by non-scientific means, for example by referring to
    popular preferences (over a half of the US population believe in some
    variety of creationism). Global warming debate is hardly a myth as it
    takes place on the pages of Nature by experts in climate research. But
    I'm yet to see a single ID supporter versed in evolution theory.

  20. correction...

    DZ said:
    Paul Cassel said:

    As far as I.D., the schools foment all sorts of myths such as (as
    David says) global warming. I can't see one further myth being all
    that bad. That is, I.D. isn't as bad as some other myths being
    taught.

    That global warming has a large component due to human activities is a
    valid scientific hypothesis. OTOH, ID is a non-falsifiable, hence a
    non-scientific hypothesis, a fraud invented to backdoor religion into
    the science class. Thereby lies the important difference. ID is always
    propagated by non-scientific means, for example by referring to
    popular preferences (over a half of the US population believe in some
    variety of creationism). Global warming

    .... is hardly a myth as ...

    Quoted message said:

    the debate takes place on the pages of Nature by experts in climate
    research. But I'm yet to see a single ID supporter versed in
    evolution theory.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.