OT Google Groups Question

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone here use Google Groups? I just signed up so I could access the
a.b. groups from my PC and I want to add a signature to match the one
on my WebTV account. How do you do this (assuming it's possible)?.

Sorry for the OT post, feel free to E-mail me: ChrisZCorner "at" webtv
"dot" net so as not to clutter up the board.

Thanks

GG is intended as a Usenet archive. It is quite annoying for regular
newsgroup contributors. For that, you will need a (free) newsgroup reader.

Plenty of others will jump in with the details.

Welcome!

J.

Quoted message said:

Anyone here use Google Groups? I just signed up so I could access the
a.b. groups from my PC and I want to add a signature to match the one
on my WebTV account. How do you do this (assuming it's possible)?.

Copy and past from a text file (e.g. Microsoft Notepad®)

Quoted message said:

Sorry for the OT post, feel free to E-mail me: ChrisZCorner "at" webtv
"dot" net so as not to clutter up the board.

The signature below was copied and pasted from Notepad®.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Jay Bollyn said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone here use Google Groups? I just signed up so I could access the
a.b. groups from my PC and I want to add a signature to match the one
on my WebTV account. How do you do this (assuming it's possible)?.

Sorry for the OT post, feel free to E-mail me: ChrisZCorner "at" webtv
"dot" net so as not to clutter up the board.

Thanks

GG is intended as a Usenet archive. It is quite annoying for regular
newsgroup contributors. For that, you will need a (free) newsgroup reader.

Plenty of others will jump in with the details.

Welcome!

Why Google can not adhere to standard Usenet conventions is a good
question. Is it ignorance or arrogance?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why Google can not adhere to standard Usenet conventions is a good
question. Is it ignorance or arrogance?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

google.com is interested in making money. Not a lot of money in maintaining
a Usenet archive. So they don't lavish $$ on user response time, at five
nines. I am sure their hardware and bandwidth expense, supporting their
Usenet archive, would absolutely drown a company with shallower pockets.

I think google.com expects active Usenet users to have a (pay) Usenet NNTP
server. It is not a huge expense.

J.

From: [email hidden] (Jay)

Quoted message said:

GG is intended as a Usenet archive. It is
quite annoying for regular newsgroup
contributors. For that, you will need a
(free) newsgroup reader.

Quoted message said:

Plenty of others will jump in with the
details.

Quoted message said:

Welcome!
J.

Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

Jay Bollyn said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why Google can not adhere to standard Usenet conventions is a good
question. Is it ignorance or arrogance?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

google.com is interested in making money. Not a lot of money in maintaining
a Usenet archive. So they don't lavish $$ on user response time, at five
nines. I am sure their hardware and bandwidth expense, supporting their
Usenet archive, would absolutely drown a company with shallower pockets.

I think google.com expects active Usenet users to have a (pay) Usenet NNTP
server. It is not a huge expense.

Why does not Goggle (or Jay for that matter) recognize the signature
separator?

Why does Google delete blank lines when quoting text in replies?

Why does Google delete text and put in "- Hide quoted text -" and "-
Show quoted text -"?

Why does not Google not use the user-name field as written in the
attribution line?

Why do Google posts mess up the quotation hierarchy when Windows Mail
6.0 users reply?

Fixing any of these would not be a major effort.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

"It's Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (Jay)

Quoted message said:

GG is intended as a Usenet archive. It is
quite annoying for regular newsgroup
contributors. For that, you will need a
(free) newsgroup reader.

Quoted message said:

Plenty of others will jump in with the
details.

Quoted message said:

Welcome!
J.

Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

You have not waited long enough. IMO, newsgroups are mostly a 9am - 5pm CST
thing. Most people contribute on company time, using their company PC and
Internet connection. Only a few of us take newsgroups home with us. But it
does seem like the bike groups contribute off hours, more than some of the
other groups. I guess because bikes are, for most, a leisure activity.

J.

Jay Bollyn said:

"It's Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.

You have not waited long enough. IMO, newsgroups are mostly a 9am - 5pm CST
thing. Most people contribute on company time, using their company PC and
Internet connection. Only a few of us take newsgroups home with us. But it
does seem like the bike groups contribute off hours, more than some of the
other groups. I guess because bikes are, for most, a leisure activity.

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"It's Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.

Quoted message said:

Jay Bollyn said:

You have not waited long enough. IMO, newsgroups are mostly a 9am -
5pm CST thing. Most people contribute on company time, using their
company PC and Internet connection. Only a few of us take newsgroups
home with us. But it does seem like the bike groups contribute off
hours, more than some of the other groups. I guess because bikes are,
for most, a leisure activity.

Tom Sherman said:

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

Between smoking a bowl outside, talking to girls, watching youtube and
various other pursuits, I'm grateful they get anything done at all some
days. (I am officially ignorant of all that) Management is the art of
the possible, not the perfect.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"It's Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote
> Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.

Quoted message said:

Jay Bollyn said:

You have not waited long enough. IMO, newsgroups are mostly a 9am -
5pm CST thing. Most people contribute on company time, using their
company PC and Internet connection. Only a few of us take newsgroups
home with us. But it does seem like the bike groups contribute off
hours, more than some of the other groups. I guess because bikes are,
for most, a leisure activity.

Tom Sherman said:

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

Between smoking a bowl outside, talking to girls, watching youtube and
various other pursuits, I'm grateful they get anything done at all some
days. (I am officially ignorant of all that) Management is the art of
the possible, not the perfect.

My experience of work is that people who are not productive enough are
soon shown the door. In fact, unless one is abnormally productive, one
has to work more time that is booked to stay employed.

I have worked at jobs where talking (unless spoken to by a supervisor)
outside of break or lunch time could result in disciplinary action.

Andrew Muzi is obviously not enough of a tyrant to be a good capitalist.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Andrew Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

> "It's Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote
>> Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.

Quoted message said:

Jay Bollyn wrote:
> You have not waited long enough. IMO, newsgroups are mostly a 9am -
> 5pm CST thing. Most people contribute on company time, using their
> company PC and Internet connection. Only a few of us take newsgroups
> home with us. But it does seem like the bike groups contribute off
> hours, more than some of the other groups. I guess because bikes are,
> for most, a leisure activity.

Tom Sherman said:

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

Between smoking a bowl outside, talking to girls, watching youtube and
various other pursuits, I'm grateful they get anything done at all some
days. (I am officially ignorant of all that) Management is the art of
the possible, not the perfect.

My experience of work is that people who are not productive enough are
soon shown the door. In fact, unless one is abnormally productive, one
has to work more time that is booked to stay employed.

I have worked at jobs where talking (unless spoken to by a supervisor)
outside of break or lunch time could result in disciplinary action.

Andrew Muzi is obviously not enough of a tyrant to be a good capitalist.

Perhaps Tom Sherman is not productive enough to be a good worker!

Seriously, I'd like to point out that my (okay, public-sector) employer
is humane, offers good benefits, and has a policy that specifically
permits non-work-related computer use during breaks and lunch. The pay
is below-market, but everything else is...above-market. I stay because
they like my work and the work is interesting.

Tom, you've made reference periodically to the horrendous-sounding work
environments you've experienced. You're working white-collar jobs, as
far as I can tell, so why do you stay in these hellholes?

If I was in a job where the productivity expectations exceeded what I
thought possible within the work day, I would leave the job. Maybe the
employer is being unreasonable, maybe the worker is being unreasonable,
but in either case the mismatch serves neither.

As for Andrew's commitment to capitalism, one can read online about how
he went from four stores to one:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/muzi.html

Which is not the usual way of things, but capitalism and the
considerable freedom of Western free-market democracies give one broad
leeway to define success. The recognized right I find most interesting
in your country's founding documents is "the pursuit of happiness." It's
not the most important right, but it may be the most liberating one.

Tom: pursue happiness.

Canada's constitution recognizes no parallel right, though we do have a
"Notwithstanding Clause" which allows most of the substantial
constitutional rights to be suspended by legislation for a period of no
more than five years, though with permissible renewals. So that's nice.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

There are two primary challenges for any manager of people: Hire (and keep)
the right person in a position appropriate for that person; and keep that
person enthused and motivated to do a great job, with minimal supervision.

Any manager (or company) who needs to micro-manage their staff's Internet
activities, has failed in at least one, and perhaps both of the points
above.

Please note, I am referring to college educated, highly trained positions. I
do plenty of work-related things on the Internet, evenings and weekends. My
management knows, I am darn near the perfect employee for my IT position.
They like to have me around, and I like the work. I am very concerned about
doing a good job. It is working well for both parties.

J.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Andrew Muzi said:

>> "It's Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote
>>> Uh, no one's jumping. Any suggestions? I don't want to cause trouble.
> Jay Bollyn wrote:
>> You have not waited long enough. IMO, newsgroups are mostly a 9am -
>> 5pm CST thing. Most people contribute on company time, using their
>> company PC and Internet connection. Only a few of us take newsgroups
>> home with us. But it does seem like the bike groups contribute off
>> hours, more than some of the other groups. I guess because bikes are,
>> for most, a leisure activity.
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
> Internet activities?
Between smoking a bowl outside, talking to girls, watching youtube and
various other pursuits, I'm grateful they get anything done at all some
days. (I am officially ignorant of all that) Management is the art of
the possible, not the perfect.

My experience of work is that people who are not productive enough are
soon shown the door. In fact, unless one is abnormally productive, one
has to work more time that is booked to stay employed.

I have worked at jobs where talking (unless spoken to by a supervisor)
outside of break or lunch time could result in disciplinary action.

Andrew Muzi is obviously not enough of a tyrant to be a good capitalist.

Perhaps Tom Sherman is not productive enough to be a good worker!

Well, at one job I lasted through more than 10 other people doing
similar work either getting fired or encouraged to leave.

Quoted message said:

Seriously, I'd like to point out that my (okay, public-sector) employer
is humane, offers good benefits, and has a policy that specifically
permits non-work-related computer use during breaks and lunch. The pay
is below-market, but everything else is...above-market. I stay because
they like my work and the work is interesting.

The keep factors here are "public sector" and Canada.

In the US, many public sector jobs have been eliminated by the
ideological craze for privatization and those that remain are mainly
filled by nepotism instead of merit.

Quoted message said:

Tom, you've made reference periodically to the horrendous-sounding work
environments you've experienced. You're working white-collar jobs, as
far as I can tell, so why do you stay in these hellholes?

Well, some of them were entry level, which was all I could get due to
circumstances. (I had to drop out of college for medical reasons, had no
family to move in with, and needed money for rent and to eat). At these
jobs, the workers were uniformly treated as fungible, since there was
significant unemployment and no social safety net.

As for white collar jobs, pretty much all have been infected by the
hysteria to maximize profit for the owners at the expense of the
workers. I have known people who changed jobs several times looking for
something different, and all they achieved was an effective blacklisting
as malcontents.

The obvious solution is to be born independently wealthy, but the
preachers tell us that only the current rich are morally deserving
enough to be blessed with wealth by God.

Quoted message said:

If I was in a job where the productivity expectations exceeded what I
thought possible within the work day, I would leave the job. Maybe the
employer is being unreasonable, maybe the worker is being unreasonable,
but in either case the mismatch serves neither.

If you had no guarantee of finding another job, no accumulated wealth to
fall back on, no family to take you in, would you be so eager to leave?

Quoted message said:

As for Andrew's commitment to capitalism, one can read online about how
he went from four stores to one:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/muzi.html

I used to have a bicycle that was purchased from the former east side
location.

Quoted message said:

Which is not the usual way of things, but capitalism and the
considerable freedom of Western free-market democracies give one broad
leeway to define success. The recognized right I find most interesting
in your country's founding documents is "the pursuit of happiness." It's
not the most important right, but it may be the most liberating one.

I am not a Constitutional scholar by any means, but U.S. Supreme Court
Associate Justice Stephen Johnson Field wrote: "Among these inalienable
rights, as proclaimed in that great document, is the right of men to
pursue their happiness, by which is meant the right to pursue any lawful
business or vocation, in any manner not inconsistent with the equal
rights of others, which may increase their prosperity or develop their
faculties, so as to give to them their highest enjoyment."

Quoted message said:

Tom: pursue happiness.

Canada's constitution recognizes no parallel right, though we do have a
"Notwithstanding Clause" which allows most of the substantial
constitutional rights to be suspended by legislation for a period of no
more than five years, though with permissible renewals. So that's nice.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html

Well, the last seven years in the US have shown that the Executive can
violate the Constitution, and the Congress will do nothing.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Jay Bollyn said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

There are two primary challenges for any manager of people: Hire (and keep)
the right person in a position appropriate for that person; and keep that
person enthused and motivated to do a great job, with minimal supervision.

I have worked for several businesses in the past, where the primary goal
of the manager was to satisfy his (all were male) need to dominate
others by being a petty tyrant.

Quoted message said:

Any manager (or company) who needs to micro-manage their staff's Internet
activities, has failed in at least one, and perhaps both of the points
above.

Well, in some places the IT department blocks off what they think the
employees do not need, and monitors the rest to see if it is
appropriately related to work.

Quoted message said:

Please note, I am referring to college educated, highly trained positions. I
do plenty of work-related things on the Internet, evenings and weekends. My
management knows, I am darn near the perfect employee for my IT position.
They like to have me around, and I like the work. I am very concerned about
doing a good job. It is working well for both parties.

Are you not working in the public sector?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

Jay Bollyn said:

Quoted message said:

Why kind of an employer lets employees spend time on non-essential
Internet activities?

Quoted message said:

There are two primary challenges for any manager of people: Hire
(and keep) the right person in a position appropriate for that
person; and keep that person enthused and motivated to do a great
job, with minimal supervision.

Quoted message said:

Any manager (or company) who needs to micro-manage their staff's
Internet activities, has failed in at least one, and perhaps both of
the points above.

Quoted message said:

Please note, I am referring to college educated, highly trained
positions. I do plenty of work-related things on the Internet,
evenings and weekends. My management knows, I am darn near the
perfect employee for my IT position. They like to have me around,
and I like the work. I am very concerned about doing a good job. It
is working well for both parties.

I think the whole concept of "micro management" is misplaced. Proper
management uses the chain of command that is apparently only clearly
defined in the military. The commander does not reprimand a soldier
for performing a duty improperly, he brings the matter up to his next
level of command, who follows the thread in similar manner until the
person responsible is reached. Leaving people out of the chain of
command is where the term "micro management" arises.

In civilian management the same holds true. Upper management wants
results and if they are not forthcoming, the reason should be found.
If this happens to be extracurricular activities, the immediate
supervisor should be made responsible... all the way up to the top.
For these events to occur reliably, top managers must make
walk-through visits to projects to get personal experience of what is
occurring. That way, at meetings, no one feels free to present
scenarios that the boss may have seen otherwise and they feel that the
boss cares.

Jobst Brandt

-snip-

Tom Sherman said:

... many public sector jobs ...
are mainly filled by nepotism instead of merit.

You of all people? Mr Socialism dissing on the placeholders and inlaws??
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Uhm, Guys???

- -
Compliments of:
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

If you want to E-mail me use:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

My website:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

Andrew Muzi said:

-snip-

Tom Sherman said:

... many public sector jobs ...
are mainly filled by nepotism instead of merit.

You of all people? Mr Socialism dissing on the placeholders and inlaws??

What part of socialism is establishing a privileged class? That is more
like the crony capitalism currently in favor in the US.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful