OT: is "resurrection" possible?

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Shawn, Feb 27, 2004.

  1. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    Does anyone know of some recorded medical cases of individuals who were pronounced dead by a health
    official but who then came back to life at a later time? I'm trying to establish some facts before I
    discuss the topic with a family member who is religious. Thanks for any help.

    Shawn
     
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  2. Doe

    Doe Guest

    >Subject: OT: is "resurrection" possible?
    >From: Shawn [email protected]
    >Date: 2/26/2004 7:51 PM Mountain Standard Time
    >Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >Does anyone know of some recorded medical cases of individuals who were pronounced dead by a health
    >official but who then came back to life at a later time? I'm trying to establish some facts before
    >I discuss the topic with a family member who is religious. Thanks for any help.
    >

    Used to happen all the time ..

    They designed a bell with a string for when they buried people .. IF .. they woke they could / would
    pull the string and they would be dug up .. asap ..

    Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
     
  3. Shawn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Does anyone know of some recorded medical cases of individuals who were pronounced dead by a health
    >official but who then came back to life at a later time? I'm trying to establish some facts before
    >I discuss the topic with a family member who is religious. Thanks for any help.

    Yes, definitely, it has happened a number of times. For example:
    http://www.defrance.org/artman/publish/article_437.shtml
    http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/08/23/story756451485.asp

    However, it's extremely unlikely these people were actually dead. They were almost certainly
    declared dead erroneously.

    It really boils down to how you define death. Medicine defines "clinical death" as the absence of
    systole (ie, cardiac arrest, no pulse). There's a small window of time where someone with no pulse
    can be revived (paramedics and ER doctors accomplish that almost daily these days).

    But once someone has gone for more than about 6-8 minutes with no pulse, their organs begin dying,
    starting with the brain. Once the brain ceases functioning, the person is "brain dead." Even if
    their heart can be restarted at that point and all the other organs survive, they will never be
    conscious again. The "person" is gone, and for all intents and purposes they are dead even though
    the rest of their body continues to function.

    But if the heart is not restarted within a few minutes, all the organs and tissues of the body will
    die. This is "cellular death" and from that there is absolutely no return. There are *no* cases of
    resurrection from cellular death (outside of legends and religious doctrine).

    In short, no one who was truly dead has ever come back to life.
     
  4. Talkback

    Talkback Guest

    Shawn wrote:
    > Does anyone know of some recorded medical cases of individuals who were pronounced dead by a
    > health official but who then came back to life at a later time? I'm trying to establish some facts
    > before I discuss the topic with a family member who is religious. Thanks for any help.
    >
    > Shawn
     
  5. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    Carey Gregory wrote:

    > Yes, definitely, it has happened a number of times. For example:
    > http://www.defrance.org/artman/publish/article_437.shtml
    > http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2003/08/23/story756451485.asp
    >
    > However, it's extremely unlikely these people were actually dead. They were almost certainly
    > declared dead erroneously.
    >
    > It really boils down to how you define death. Medicine defines "clinical death" as the absence of
    > systole (ie, cardiac arrest, no pulse). There's a small window of time where someone with no pulse
    > can be revived (paramedics and ER doctors accomplish that almost daily these days).
    >
    > But once someone has gone for more than about 6-8 minutes with no pulse, their organs begin dying,
    > starting with the brain. Once the brain ceases functioning, the person is "brain dead." Even if
    > their heart can be restarted at that point and all the other organs survive, they will never be
    > conscious again. The "person" is gone, and for all intents and purposes they are dead even though
    > the rest of their body continues to function.
    >
    > But if the heart is not restarted within a few minutes, all the organs and tissues of the body
    > will die. This is "cellular death" and from that there is absolutely no return. There are *no*
    > cases of resurrection from cellular death (outside of legends and religious doctrine).
    >
    > In short, no one who was truly dead has ever come back to life.

    Thank you for your reply. Well basically my father who is a rather feverish Christian gave me a
    videotape containing a story of the alleged resurrection of a person in Nigeria (a highly suspicious
    location) that was supposedly pronounced dead after a car accident and then awoke after three days.
    The claim was that the initial diagnosis indicated no breathing, no pulse, dilated pupils, and then
    he was left in the morgue. I'm thinking of either a very blatant lie or at best an extremely
    incompetent doctor and diagosis. Either way, I am reminded of the commercial nature of the video
    ($35 a pop I believe), from a Christian evangelical publication.

    The sad thing to me personally is that before his retirement, my father was a surgeon, but appears
    to have lost all skepticism, no matter how basic, over time regarding his faith.
     
  6. Shawn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Thank you for your reply. Well basically my father who is a rather feverish Christian gave me a
    >videotape containing a story of the alleged resurrection of a person in Nigeria (a highly
    >suspicious location) that was supposedly pronounced dead after a car accident and then awoke after
    >three days. The claim was that the initial diagnosis indicated no breathing, no pulse, dilated
    >pupils, and then he was left in the morgue. I'm thinking of either a very blatant lie or at best an
    >extremely incompetent doctor and diagosis. Either way, I am reminded of the commercial nature of
    >the video ($35 a pop I believe), from a Christian evangelical publication.

    Nigeria? $35 for the video? As if that's not enough.

    Lots of stuff on the web about this. Do a google search on "Daniel Ekechukwu"

    >The sad thing to me personally is that before his retirement, my father was a surgeon, but appears
    >to have lost all skepticism, no matter how basic, over time regarding his faith.

    Sigh.... He was a surgeon and he believes this rot?
     
  7. Talkback

    Talkback Guest

    Carey Gregory wrote:
    > Shawn <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > Sigh.... He was a surgeon and he believes this rot?
    >

    In the context of religion, believing something like isn't necessarily contradictory with being a
    surgeon. A brilliant surgeon can believe in God and take the Bible literally if he wants to. It's
    not as if he needs to give God a bypass to believe.

    Whatever he believes now shouldn't cause you to worry. My dad believed you could figure out winning
    lottery numbers in advance. I just learned to tune it out and nod.
     
  8. talkback <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In the context of religion, believing something like isn't necessarily contradictory with being a
    >surgeon. A brilliant surgeon can believe in God and take the Bible literally if he wants to. It's
    >not as if he needs to give God a bypass to believe.

    Understood, but this tale is incompatible with science *and* Biblical teachings. The Bible doesn't
    predict ad hoc resurrections.

    >Whatever he believes now shouldn't cause you to worry. My dad believed you could figure out winning
    >lottery numbers in advance. I just learned to tune it out and nod.

    Rest assured I won't be losing any sleep over it. ;-) On the rare occasion I waste $1 on a lotto
    ticket, I would be happy to play your father's numbers. They're as good as any other.
     
  9. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    Carey Gregory wrote:

    > Sigh.... He was a surgeon and he believes this rot?

    Maybe the stress got to him. In any case, he just seemed to stop caring about his career, or wealth,
    or the world, or anything other than his faith. And certainly he has much FAITH in this stuff.
     
  10. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    talkback wrote:

    > Whatever he believes now shouldn't cause you to worry. My dad believed you could figure out
    > winning lottery numbers in advance. I just learned to tune it out and nod.

    That's really what I've been trying to do over the years as well. It's a bit more difficult for me,
    as I've been under constant verbal assault over the years regarding the highway to hell on which
    I've apparently travelling.
     
  11. Shawn

    Shawn Guest

    Carey Gregory wrote:

    > On the rare occasion I waste $1 on a lotto ticket, I would be happy to play your father's numbers.
    > They're as good as any other.

    I once played lottery for fun. On a subscription of $50, I got $67 back, if I recall correctly. I
    think I'm going to take the winning to my grave.
     
  12. Talkback

    Talkback Guest

    Shawn wrote:
    > talkback wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Whatever he believes now shouldn't cause you to worry. My dad believed you could figure out
    >>winning lottery numbers in advance. I just learned to tune it out and nod.
    >
    >
    > That's really what I've been trying to do over the years as well. It's a bit more difficult for
    > me, as I've been under constant verbal assault over the years regarding the highway to hell on
    > which I've apparently travelling.
    >

    You can either tune out or avoid the source or irritation, or get of the highway at the
    next ramp. (-;
     
  13. Talkback

    Talkback Guest

    Shawn wrote:

    > Carey Gregory wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On the rare occasion I waste $1 on a lotto ticket, I would be happy to play your father's numbers.
    >>They're as good as any other.
    >
    >
    > I once played lottery for fun. On a subscription of $50, I got $67 back, if I recall correctly. I
    > think I'm going to take the winning to my grave.
    >
    That's the only way to keep them. I played a lottery once. It was for the Canadian Olypic Games in
    Montreal (to defray the deficit). The games made medical history because the then mayor had said,
    "The Olympics couldn't end up as a loss any more than a man could have a baby. Guess what happened).

    Anyway, I bought a ticket, $10 back then was a lot of money, and I GOT NOTHING! ...so I stopped
    doing that. It's a tax on the stipid and lazy. Sad how some people are actually looking at the
    lotteries as their retirement planning.
     
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