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OT: Question to Paul re Cannon 300D

Started by Glenn · · Last activity · 12 posts · 225 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
16 November 2004
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19 November 2004
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Glenn
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  1. Hi Paul,

    I'm thinking of going digital and will probably replace my EOS 50E with the
    300D (I've already bought a second hand Olympus 5050 to replace two of my
    caving cameras). I frequently use a graduated mauve together with a rotary
    polarising filter with my 50E (slide film) and wondered if this is still
    necessary if I move over to digital. Did you used to use filters (and still
    do?)

    Many thanks,

    Glenn

    Web site: http://www.andromeda-park.demon.co.uk
    Speleo Vercors: http://www.speleo-vercors.org

  2. Glenn said:

    I frequently use a graduated mauve
    together with a rotary polarising filter with my 50E (slide film) and
    wondered if this is still necessary if I move over to digital. Did
    you used to use filters (and still do?)

    Yes I used to use filters, skylight and 81B for sunny and overcast days,
    graduated greys for darkening overly bright skies (or lightening overly
    dark land) and a polariser.

    Nowadays I no longer bother with the skylight and 81B (I can easily
    adjust colour balance digitally, or in Photoshop afterwareds) and nor do
    I bother with the grads anymore.

    I can now get essentially the same effect as the grads in Photoshop,
    using either contrast masking, layer masking or the new shadow/highlight
    control. This does require a little time spent post processing, but
    produces far better results than grads IMO, because you can create masks
    which fit the shape of the horizon, rather than being limited to a
    straight line. You can also adjust the strength of the effect to get it
    exactly how you want it, it's far more versatile than grads.

    But of course, you do have to learn how to do it, there's no magic
    button to press. Some argue that using a filter is easier, and it
    probably is, but when I'm out shooting I don't like to spend a lot of
    time faffing about with filters. I'd rather spend 10 minutes on the
    computer than waste 5 minutes out in the field.

    It's also far more practical because digital cameras have a much wider
    dynamic range than film (contrary to what most people mistakenly
    believe). It's not immediately obvious, but if you shoot in RAW mode
    and convert to 16 bit per channel, it's amazing how much detail and
    colour you can get out of the shadows. For this reason you simply
    expose for the highlights and worry about the shadows later. The
    shadows may look black on the LCD, but they're not. The histogram will
    confirm that you haven't underexposed the image, even if it looks like
    you have.

    Some have also argued that using a grad gives better quality results,
    since digital shadow detail is of lower quality. This is a valid point,
    but there are two things to consider. Firstly, if you use a grad when
    you take the shot, it's very difficult to "undo" the effect later, it's
    much easier to work on an unfiltered image.

    Secondly, regarding quality, the big question is how much contrast there
    is in the scene and how much you want to brighten the shadows. If it's
    extremely contrasty and you want to brighten them a lot, then shadow
    quality will suffer. However, in most situations the contrast isn't
    that great, and you don't brighten the shadows too much, so the results
    look fine.

    If you really do have a high contrast problem and you want the best
    quality, the simple solution is to take two shots, one exposed for the
    highlights, one for the shadows (on a tripod of course for identical
    framing). These two shots can later be blended using layer masking for
    excellent quality results.

    As for the polariser, that's one filter that you can't simulate in
    software. Certainly you can darken blue skies and so on, but it's not
    the same and it's not as good. You obviously can't remove glare from
    the surface of water and see what's underneath. So a good old polariser
    is still a very useful filter, that can't be replaced with software.

    There's one more filter than I now use which you may be interested in,
    an infrared filter. Many digital cameras are sensitive to infrared
    light, so if you use a filter to block out all visual light, only
    infrared light will be recorded. These require very long exposures
    (usually 8-30 seconds) and are difficult to take because the viewfinder
    is black (so you have to set up the shot on a tripod before you attach
    the filter), but can produce very interesting effects. Fortunately
    auto-focus works through the filter (you can't focus manually because
    infrared focuses in a different plane).

    Hope this helps.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  3. "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Glenn said:

    I frequently use a graduated mauve
    together with a rotary polarising filter with my 50E (slide film) and
    wondered if this is still necessary if I move over to digital. Did
    you used to use filters (and still do?)


    SNIP
    As for the polariser, that's one filter that you can't simulate in
    software. Certainly you can darken blue skies and so on, but it's not
    the same and it's not as good. You obviously can't remove glare from
    the surface of water and see what's underneath. So a good old polariser
    is still a very useful filter, that can't be replaced with software.

    There's one more filter than I now use which you may be interested in,
    an infrared filter. Many digital cameras are sensitive to infrared
    light, so if you use a filter to block out all visual light, only
    infrared light will be recorded. These require very long exposures
    (usually 8-30 seconds) and are difficult to take because the viewfinder
    is black (so you have to set up the shot on a tripod before you attach
    the filter), but can produce very interesting effects. Fortunately
    auto-focus works through the filter (you can't focus manually because
    infrared focuses in a different plane).

    Thanks for that Paul, very useful. I use the polariser a lot in the Alps (in
    limestone areas mostly) to increase/decrease contrast caused by
    glare/reflection off all that wonderful limestone!

    Cheers,

    Glenn

    Web site: http://www.andromeda-park.demon.co.uk
    Speleo Vercors: http://www.speleo-vercors.org

  4. I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Paul
    Saunders contained the following:

    Quoted message said:


    Nowadays I no longer bother with the skylight and 81B

    They do serve as a good first line of defence for the lens.
    --
    Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
    It's only Usenet, no one dies.
    My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
    Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Berrow
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Paul
    Saunders contained the following:

    Quoted message said:


    Nowadays I no longer bother with the skylight and 81B

    They do serve as a good first line of defence for the lens.

    I wouldn't, neither would Pual I dare say, use those as a lens
    protecting filter - the UV would be my choice and I'd leave it on except
    for those occasions when an extra filter is required and two filters
    would cause vignetting.
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk

  6. Geoff Berrow said:
    Quoted message said:

    Nowadays I no longer bother with the skylight and 81B

    They do serve as a good first line of defence for the lens.

    So they say, but in spite of using them for nearly 20 years, I've yet to
    damage a filter, which leads me to believe that my lenses aren't at that
    much risk. I rarely walk with my camera, I usually stop, take it out of
    the case, take the shot, put it back in the case, then continue walking.

    Besides, there's also the vignetting issue as Bill said.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  7. Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I rarely walk with my camera, I usually stop, take it out of
    the case, take the shot, put it back in the case, then continue walking.


    <Cough>
    Well, actually, it isn't usually quite as QUICK as that, now is it?
    --
    Gordon

  8. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I rarely walk with my camera, I usually stop, take it out of
    the case, take the shot, put it back in the case, then continue walking.


    <Cough>
    Well, actually, it isn't usually quite as QUICK as that, now is it?


    NO! This afternoon Judith fired off a couple of photos; I did
    likewise - and Paul was still setting up the tripod... :-)
    --
    "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is
    probably the day that they start making vacuum cleaners."
    --Doc in alt.privacy

  9. In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    NO! This afternoon Judith fired off a couple of photos; I did
    likewise - and Paul was still setting up the tripod... :-)

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush - or something like that.
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk

  10. Fran said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I rarely walk with my camera, I usually stop, take it out of
    the case, take the shot, put it back in the case, then continue
    walking.


    <Cough>
    Well, actually, it isn't usually quite as QUICK as that, now is it?

    I never said it was quick, just that I rarely walk with the camera, I
    tend to put it back in the case before moving off.

    Quoted message said:

    NO! This afternoon Judith fired off a couple of photos; I did
    likewise - and Paul was still setting up the tripod... :-)

    But I only set it up once! So consider yourself very lucky!

    I couldn't be bothered with all that faffing about in the rain, I'll go
    back in a few days when the rain stops and really take my time over it.
    I've been known to spend a whole hour photographing one waterfall,
    taking as many as 20-30 photographs. I may spend 8 hours doing the same
    walk on my own. :-)

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

  11. In article <[email hidden]>, pvs1
    @wildwales.fsnet.co.uk says...

    Quoted message said:
    Fran said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I rarely walk with my camera, I usually stop, take it out of
    > the case, take the shot, put it back in the case, then continue
    > walking.
    >
    <Cough>
    Well, actually, it isn't usually quite as QUICK as that, now is it?

    I never said it was quick, just that I rarely walk with the camera, I
    tend to put it back in the case before moving off.

    Quoted message said:

    NO! This afternoon Judith fired off a couple of photos; I did
    likewise - and Paul was still setting up the tripod... :-)

    But I only set it up once! So consider yourself very lucky!

    I couldn't be bothered with all that faffing about in the rain, I'll go
    back in a few days when the rain stops and really take my time over it.
    I've been known to spend a whole hour photographing one waterfall,
    taking as many as 20-30 photographs. I may spend 8 hours doing the same
    walk on my own. :-)

    in which case you can pretty much guarantee that you /will be/ on your
    own :-)

    --
    Darren

  12. Darren G said:
    Quoted message said:

    I couldn't be bothered with all that faffing about in the rain, I'll
    go back in a few days when the rain stops and really take my time
    over it. I've been known to spend a whole hour photographing one
    waterfall, taking as many as 20-30 photographs. I may spend 8 hours
    doing the same walk on my own. :-)

    in which case you can pretty much guarantee that you /will be/ on your
    own :-)

    That's the idea!

    Seriously, I take most of my best photos when I'm on my own. Don't have
    the same level of concentration when I have company, and there's usually
    the rush factor, unless I'm with another photographer.

    Paul
    --
    http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
    http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

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