OT: Rummy Quits

Ride-A-Lot said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker
has no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very
smart and logical dude.

I hope thats not Bill Gates you mean. You'd have to reboot the country
every night.

Robert Gates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gates

Humm, maybe he should have gone with bill instead.

Ride-A-Lot said:

Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker has
no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very smart and
logical dude.

He was high up on the Soviet working group when the CIA failed to notice
the USSR was falling apart. He was also very tied up in Iran-Contra.

Meet the new boss. The same as the old boss.

--
Lynn Wallace

If FDR fought fascism the way Bush fights terrorism, we'd all be
speaking German now.

Raptor said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker
has no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very
smart and logical dude.

He was high up on the Soviet working group when the CIA failed to notice
the USSR was falling apart. He was also very tied up in Iran-Contra.

Meet the new boss. The same as the old boss.

I was just going to say, anyone who was that high up in the CIA cannot be
a good thing.
--
Slack

Slack said:

Raptor said:

Ride-A-Lot said:

Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker
has no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very
smart and logical dude.

He was high up on the Soviet working group when the CIA failed to
notice the USSR was falling apart. He was also very tied up in
Iran-Contra.

Meet the new boss. The same as the old boss.

I was just going to say, anyone who was that high up in the CIA cannot
be a good thing.

C'mon Slack, George Senior ran the CIA, and look what a good President
he turned out to be.

Shawn

"Shawn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slack said:

Raptor said:

Ride-A-Lot wrote:
> Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker
> has no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very
> smart and logical dude.

He was high up on the Soviet working group when the CIA failed to notice
the USSR was falling apart. He was also very tied up in Iran-Contra.

Meet the new boss. The same as the old boss.

I was just going to say, anyone who was that high up in the CIA cannot be
a good thing.

C'mon Slack, George Senior ran the CIA, and look what a good President he
turned out to be.

George Senior let the professionals plan and fight the war. We haven't seen
that this time. I'm curious as to how Gates will use his generals and his
staff.

Glenn D.

"Marty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

History will judge. Not uninformed Bush-hating pukes. In my unhumble
opinion this war (GWOT, OIF, and OEF) will go down as one of the best run
wars in history (right up to Jan 2007).

What is your background in military strategy and operations that would give
your opinion credibility? My fourteen years as a military officer gives me a
different perspective than yours.

Glenn D.

Glenn Dowdy said:

"Shawn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Slack said:

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:46:43 -0800, Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Ride-A-Lot wrote:
>> Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker
>> has no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very
>> smart and logical dude.
> He was high up on the Soviet working group when the CIA failed to notice
> the USSR was falling apart. He was also very tied up in Iran-Contra.
>
> Meet the new boss. The same as the old boss.
>

I was just going to say, anyone who was that high up in the CIA cannot be
a good thing.

C'mon Slack, George Senior ran the CIA, and look what a good President he
turned out to be.

George Senior let the professionals plan and fight the war. We haven't seen
that this time. I'm curious as to how Gates will use his generals and his
staff.

I agreed with his war policy in Iraq (well Powell and Schwarzkopf's) up
until they retreated before taking Baghdad. I thought "big pussies".
How wrong I was.

Shawn

Per Marty:

Quoted message said:

In my unhumble opinion
this war (GWOT, OIF, and OEF) will go down as one of the best run wars in
history (right up to Jan 2007).

Would you include the time after the fighting was over?

If so, how about the widespread looting and general breakdown in order following
the technical military victory? e.g. looting of the Baghdad museum, looting
the hospitals, stripping the infrastructure in general? From everything I've
heard/read so far these things were predicted long in advance by state
department experts - who were largely ignored.

When a reporter called Rumsfeld on it, he said something like "Well gee, we
can't help it if there are a lot of crooks over there..."

I saw General Franks being interviewed once and he seemed to be dancing on the
subject. Interviewer said something like "General Franks, did you have enough
manpower?" Franks said something like "Yes, we had adequate manpower to achieve
our immediate military objective - which was defeating the Iraqi army".

--
PeteCresswell

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

When a reporter called Rumsfeld on it, he said something like "Well gee, we
can't help it if there are a lot of crooks over there..."

Just saw a clip of that interview on The News Hour tonite. The "Well gee... "
part was pretty close.

He also capped it off with the exact words: "Stuff happens".... Which, to me,
was *really* over the top.... I mean... you go into a country, defeat their
military, remove all of their leadership, and you're surprised that there's
massive disorder and looting??? Sheesh!

Nobody could be that foolish. The only explanation I can think of is that the
administration had some ulterior motive for allowing the looting to happen.
--
PeteCresswell

Shawn said:

Slack said:

Raptor said:

Ride-A-Lot wrote:
> Now this is one I can throw my two cents into. An investment banker
> has no right making military decisions. Gates will be good. Very
> smart and logical dude.

He was high up on the Soviet working group when the CIA failed to
notice the USSR was falling apart. He was also very tied up in
Iran-Contra.

Meet the new boss. The same as the old boss.

I was just going to say, anyone who was that high up in the CIA
cannot be a good thing.

C'mon Slack, George Senior ran the CIA, and look what a good President
he turned out to be.

Shawn

Exactly, and look how his kids turned out. If ever there was a
[legitimate] time for regime change in Iraq, it was the Gulf War.
Beating them out of Kuwait didn't do a damn thing except to setup the next
President(s) to deal with it.

That and his famous tax hike during a nasty recession; you're free to call
that a "good president," but I think I'll set my standard a little higher
--
Slack

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per (PeteCresswell):

Quoted message said:

When a reporter called Rumsfeld on it, he said something like "Well gee, we
can't help it if there are a lot of crooks over there..."

Just saw a clip of that interview on The News Hour tonite. The "Well gee... "
part was pretty close.

He also capped it off with the exact words: "Stuff happens".... Which, to me,
was *really* over the top.... I mean... you go into a country, defeat their
military, remove all of their leadership, and you're surprised that there's
massive disorder and looting??? Sheesh!

Nobody could be that foolish. The only explanation I can think of is that the
administration had some ulterior motive for allowing the looting to happen.

Um, I'm very sorry to say that the evidence is ample that somebody CAN
be that foolish.

--
Lynn Wallace

If FDR fought fascism the way Bush fights terrorism, we'd all be
speaking German now.

G.T. said:

Who's the next member of the Axis of Evil?

Canada! Nothing but trouble I tell ya! I swear the extra "A" after
every sentence is a code word. Come on! Why do you think they all live
in the lower 1/4 of that country? It's a plot I say.

Let's not all get bent out of shape here. I don't think Al (B)ore would
of had an easier time after 9/11. The Dems proved themselves in a tough
situation a few times before:

Bill Clinton couldn't hit the side of a barn housing Bin Laden wearing a
shirt that said "hit me".

Jimmy Carter couldn't handle Iran's implosion.

Harry s. Truman dropped not one, but two of the deadliest and dirtiest
killing machines in the world because he was "frustrated".

I've said it before and I'll say it again. To bad they didn't freeze
Ronnie before his brain went mush.

....This message paid for by "I used to be a democrat, then became a
republican, and now I just don't give a [censored]".

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Marty said:

History will judge. Not uninformed Bush-hating pukes. In my unhumble opinion
this war (GWOT, OIF, and OEF) will go down as one of the best run wars in
history (right up to Jan 2007).

Having a good idea of the fringe you are operating on, I have no doubt
what you say is based on a true story.

Quoted message said:

As for Rummy being a creep. Ever met him?
Ever spoken to him? I'm guessing not and that you get your perspective from
the standard global rectal/cranial inversion which has the typical world
view of "US bad/ everybody else good". I have had the pleasure of meeting
and briefing Rummy on several occasions. He's engaging, sharp as a tack and
a nice guy. He listens, asks questions (and your opinion) and is genuine a
guys' guy. If you have to ask what THAT is then nevermind.

I'd have to liken this last part to those who sit behind their
keyboards and call me a creep without having met me. They don't know
me, have never met me and if our paths ever crossed, would most
definitely lack the intestinal fortitude to ever speak to me. They
have no idea as to what I may be like in person and to tell the truth,
I don't give a [censored] what they think. On that note, I'm sure Rummy
doesn't care what media-fed zombies think of him, especially on a
personal level. The bottom line is that the zombies are just not worth
it.

As far as Greg's encounter goes, I'd be willing to wager that a
preconcieved notion of who Rummy is may have had something to do with
his being creeped out. Sometimes iconic people can be intimidating
along those lines and they can sense when those around them may be put
off or intimidated by their mere presence, causing them to put on more
airs than when around those they are comfortable with. I'm sure Rummy
is much more comfortable in a military briefing than in the bellows of
a media stronghold.

JD

Per G.T.:

Quoted message said:

Who's the next member of the Axis of Evil?

My theory is that the Iraq thing was just an honest mistake.

Think about it:
--------------------------------------------
- Who has demonstrated nuclear capability?
- Who has been documented tb supporting terrorist operations?
- Who has a major woodie for the USA?
-------------------------------------------

Hint: there's only one letter difference in the name...

We all know that 43 was no scholar. He admits to having had a significant
alcohol problem, and he is widely believed to have use cocaine....

A few brain cells here, a few brain cells there....

I think he just got Iraq and Iran mixed up.
--
PeteCresswell

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't give a [censored] what they think. On that note, I'm sure Rummy
doesn't care what media-fed zombies think of him, especially on a
personal level. The bottom line is that the zombies are just not worth
it.

So these guys are media-fed zombies:

"We need to continue to fight the global war on terror and keep it off our
shores," General Swannack said in a telephone interview. "But I do not
believe Secretary Rumsfeld is the right person to fight that war based on
his absolute failures in managing the war against Saddam in Iraq."

"General Newbold said he regretted not opposing the invasion of Iraq more
vigorously, and called the invasion peripheral to the job of defeating Al
Qaeda."

"Eaton says Rumsfeld is not competent strategically, operationally, and
tactically and is more than anyone else, responsible for the chaos in Iraq.
He says he sees a growing reluctance of experienced military and civilians
to challenge his leadership. He says they are intimidated by Rumfeld
because of the way he retaliates by undercutting them.

Eaton says Rumsfeld demand more than loyalty, he demands fealty. And he has
hired men who give it. The new Army Sec. Francis Harvey, who when faced
with the compelling need to increase the size of the service, refused,
instead he relied on a shell game of hiring civilians to do jobs previously
done by soldiers. He kept the force strength static-on paper."

Greg

Per Marty:

Quoted message said:

History will judge.

Quoted message said:

I have had the pleasure of meeting
and briefing Rummy on several occasions. He's engaging, sharp as a tack and
a nice guy.

What's your take on the reason that he opted to allow Iraq to fall into chaos
after the invasion?

Obviously he's extremely intelligent, so he *had* to have known what was going
to happen without enough troops to maintain order.

How come he went down that path?

And why did he offer up "Stuff happens" when called on it?
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) said:

- Who has demonstrated nuclear capability?

Clearly not Iraq, though there was well-documented efforts to move
that way (in the UNMOVIC documents). Happily, the Israeli Air Force
took out his breeder reactor before it could produce anything.

Quoted message said:

- Who has been documented tb supporting terrorist operations?

That would be Iraq. Not debatable. Canceled checks and certificates
of appreciation to suicide bomber families would be the most obvious
evidence.

Quoted message said:

- Who has a major woodie for the USA?

Like Iraq didn't? I'd certainly think that trying to assassinate an
ex US president would qualify.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Bill Sornson said:

You'll notice I commented ONLY on the tone of the discourse. (You'll also
notice that all that vaunted "angry left" vitriol has suddenly stopped among
Dem leaders, leaving just web-heads, bloggers and dot org-ers to continue
the spew even after the bell has rung ending the fight.)

The fight is far from over. This nice talk will last until the first
contentious issue comes up, then it's on. I give it three days from the
time Congress re-convenes, unless Shrub tries something between now and
then.

Quoted message said:

But hey, you were in a room with one of them once. Trumps Marty's and CDB's
experiences any day.

Signed, Sorni Sarcams (Sic)

Hey, [censored] was reportedly pretty charismatic.

--
Lynn Wallace

If FDR fought fascism the way Bush fights terrorism, we'd all be
speaking German now.

(PeteCresswell) said:

Per G.T.:

Quoted message said:

Who's the next member of the Axis of Evil?

My theory is that the Iraq thing was just an honest mistake.

Think about it:
--------------------------------------------
- Who has demonstrated nuclear capability?
- Who has been documented tb supporting terrorist operations?
- Who has a major woodie for the USA?
-------------------------------------------

Hint: there's only one letter difference in the name...

We all know that 43 was no scholar.

He got better grades than Kerry AND tested higher. (Yet another reason
Kerry's "joke" was just absurd.) Bush is the first US prez with an MBA from
Harvard Business School, IINM.

It's not his fault FL went his way in 2000, but the haters will never let it
go.

Quoted message said:

He admits to having had a
significant alcohol problem, and he is widely believed to have use
cocaine....

He quit drinking /many/ years ago (like /many/ people of all political
persuasions...except Ted Kennedy maybe). Gee, he's done pretty well for a
lush and a wash-out, huh?

It's just more of the Bush Derangement Syndrome. Maybe if Hillary ever
becomes prez you'll see the likes of it matched; otherwise, not likely.

Quoted message said:

A few brain cells here, a few brain cells there....

I think he just got Iraq and Iran mixed up.

Along with nearly every intelligence agency here and abroad -- AND nearly
all the leading Democrats, too. They were all on board until things got
hard; just check their quotes.