OT Stoopid Drivers

John Hearns <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Ziggy said:

Sorry, but how can you know?

I don't. But do you think the 20-something young guy I saw in Newcastle
(Grainger Town) parking his BWW on a double yellow line on Thursday
evening was disabled? I think not.
Bought the Blue Badge in a dodgy pub I think.

You appear somewhat akin to a fool.

Quoted message said:

Doubly cheeky, as Blue Badges do not give you any rights to park on a
double yellow anyway.

Actually they do.

--
Paul - [censored]

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:10:19 +0100, "vernon" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:09:23 +0100, "Josey" <jc@nospam> wrote:

>
>"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>
>> I drove to Ikea today to buy a bed frame.
>
>I believe threy can be strange sizes from Ikea.

Fortunately I bought my matress for Ikea also - 20 years ago. The new
bed frame and the old matress are the same strange size.

Time for a new mattress?

What would I do with the old one?

Lightly poach it and serve with Hollandaise sauce

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:31:03 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ziggy said:

Sorry, but how can you know?

I don't. But do you think the 20-something young guy I saw in Newcastle
(Grainger Town) parking his BWW on a double yellow line on Thursday
evening was disabled? I think not.
Bought the Blue Badge in a dodgy pub I think.

There is undoubtably a problem with people getting disabled badges who
should not have them and people using disabled badges that do not belong
to them, but, as both Tony and myself have pointed out, you cannot tell
who they are just by looking.

And it would be invidious to accuse a genuinely disabled person of
fraudulent use.

Paul - censored said:

Quoted message said:

Doubly cheeky, as Blue Badges do not give you any rights to park on a
double yellow anyway.

Actually they do.

No, they don't.
A car parked on a double yellow will get a ticket like any other.
What it DOES do is give you a dispensation from getting towed.

John Hearns said:

No, they don't.
A car parked on a double yellow will get a ticket like any other.
What it DOES do is give you a dispensation from getting towed.

I Google and correct myself.
Up to three hours on a double yellow. Good-oh!

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:47:20 GMT, [email hidden] (Ziggy)

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:31:03 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ziggy said:

Sorry, but how can you know?

I don't. But do you think the 20-something young guy I saw in Newcastle
(Grainger Town) parking his BWW on a double yellow line on Thursday
evening was disabled? I think not.
Bought the Blue Badge in a dodgy pub I think.

There is undoubtably a problem with people getting disabled badges who
should not have them and people using disabled badges that do not belong
to them, but, as both Tony and myself have pointed out, you cannot tell
who they are just by looking.

And it would be invidious to accuse a genuinely disabled person of
fraudulent use.

From the website:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/DG_4001061
It seems highly likely that it would be immediately apparant to a
casual observer of the mobility impairment of a genuine blue badge
holder.

I doubt very much that the person I saw was either:
1. receiving the higher rate of the Mobility Component of the
Disability Living Allowance;
2. receiving a War Pensioner's Mobility Supplement;
3. using a motor vehicle supplied by a government health department;
4. a registered blind person;
5. had severe disability in both upper limbs; or
6. had a permanent and substantial disability which causes inability
to walk or very considerable difficulty in walking.

However, I accept that anyone can use disabled parking bays in private
car parks, and that an individual may feel a personal entitlement to
do so because of a disability not covered by the above.

It remains my belief that the driver was simply a selfish "git", as Mr
Hearns so beautifully put it, and if, as I believe, he was ingenuine,
perhaps he might think twice about using a disabled bay in the future.

Tom Crispin said:

From the website:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/DG_4001061
It seems highly likely that it would be immediately apparant to a
casual observer of the mobility impairment of a genuine blue badge
holder.

I doubt very much that the person I saw was either:
1. receiving the higher rate of the Mobility Component of the
Disability Living Allowance;
2. receiving a War Pensioner's Mobility Supplement;
3. using a motor vehicle supplied by a government health department;
4. a registered blind person;
5. had severe disability in both upper limbs; or
6. had a permanent and substantial disability which causes inability
to walk or very considerable difficulty in walking.

However, I accept that anyone can use disabled parking bays in private
car parks, and that an individual may feel a personal entitlement to
do so because of a disability not covered by the above.

It remains my belief that the driver was simply a selfish "git", as Mr
Hearns so beautifully put it, and if, as I believe, he was ingenuine,
perhaps he might think twice about using a disabled bay in the future.

I dare say there's a good chance he was.

But there are reasons why people can *legitimately* get blue badges
where the relevant disability is *not* immediately apparant.

For example:

Where they suffer from an arthritic condition that allows them to walk
short distances before their joints become painful. This means that
until the joint problems kick in they appear to be perfectly normal.

Where they suffer from heart failure and, similarly, can walk short
distances but quickly become exhausted.

It's true that it's unlikely in the case you mention but I think I'd
rather err on the side of caution given that getting it wrong would lead
to making someone already shouldering an unpleasant burden feel worse
unnecessarily.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:49:49 GMT, [email hidden] (Ziggy)

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin said:

From the website:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/DG_4001061
It seems highly likely that it would be immediately apparant to a
casual observer of the mobility impairment of a genuine blue badge
holder.

I doubt very much that the person I saw was either:
1. receiving the higher rate of the Mobility Component of the
Disability Living Allowance;
2. receiving a War Pensioner's Mobility Supplement;
3. using a motor vehicle supplied by a government health department;
4. a registered blind person;
5. had severe disability in both upper limbs; or
6. had a permanent and substantial disability which causes inability
to walk or very considerable difficulty in walking.

However, I accept that anyone can use disabled parking bays in private
car parks, and that an individual may feel a personal entitlement to
do so because of a disability not covered by the above.

It remains my belief that the driver was simply a selfish "git", as Mr
Hearns so beautifully put it, and if, as I believe, he was ingenuine,
perhaps he might think twice about using a disabled bay in the future.

I dare say there's a good chance he was.

But there are reasons why people can *legitimately* get blue badges
where the relevant disability is *not* immediately apparant.

As already posted, after I'd bought my new bed frame, and loaded into
the car, I returned to the shop to use the toilets, and to spend 95p
on a full English breakfast. As I passed the car I looked at the
damage, and also, out of curiosity, looked for a disabled bay permit.
There was no evidence of one.

Had there been one I'd've suspected it forged or borrowed.

Quoted message said:

For example:

Where they suffer from an arthritic condition that allows them to walk
short distances before their joints become painful. This means that
until the joint problems kick in they appear to be perfectly normal.

Where they suffer from heart failure and, similarly, can walk short
distances but quickly become exhausted.

Ikea is not an ideal shop for such people to use without assistance. I
don't think that Ikea provide wheelchairs, though I may be mistaken.

Quoted message said:

It's true that it's unlikely in the case you mention but I think I'd
rather err on the side of caution given that getting it wrong would lead
to making someone already shouldering an unpleasant burden feel worse
unnecessarily.

Most people, including those with a disability, can cope with a little
banter.

Tom Crispin wrote on 29/04/2007 11:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:47:20 GMT, [email hidden] (Ziggy)

Quoted message said:

And it would be invidious to accuse a genuinely disabled person of
fraudulent use.

From the website:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/DG_4001061
It seems highly likely that it would be immediately apparant to a
casual observer of the mobility impairment of a genuine blue badge
holder.

Is the wrong answer. Difficulty walking is not limited to outwardly
visible signs. There are many people who have heart conditions for
example for whom it is either not advisable or possible to walk far but
who can walk perfectly well as far as they are able. They rightly
qualify for blue badges.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tom Crispin wrote on 29/04/2007 12:14 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Most people, including those with a disability, can cope with a little
banter.

People used to say that about race or gender but it was equally
unacceptable there as it is here.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Ziggy said:

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:31:03 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ziggy said:

Sorry, but how can you know?

I don't. But do you think the 20-something young guy I saw in Newcastle
(Grainger Town) parking his BWW on a double yellow line on Thursday
evening was disabled? I think not.
Bought the Blue Badge in a dodgy pub I think.

There is undoubtably a problem with people getting disabled badges who
should not have them and people using disabled badges that do not belong
to them, but, as both Tony and myself have pointed out, you cannot tell
who they are just by looking.

And it would be invidious to accuse a genuinely disabled person of
fraudulent use.

As a current (I hope temporary) holder of a blue badge I would strongly
agree that it can be difficult to separate legitimate use from misuse;
although I do think there is a quite a lot of the latter).

I may not look vry brokem but a combination of chemotherapy and
radiotherapy leaves me so weak and unbalanced I can be hard put to make
the shop's front door from the nearest disabled slot.

If anyone ese knows someone in a similar state /do/ get them to read
Lance Amstrong's "It's not about the bike". Certainly kept me going to
the point where I think I'm winning!

Peter

--
www.amey.org.uk

Tom Crispin said:

Ikea is not an ideal shop for such people to use without assistance. I
don't think that Ikea provide wheelchairs, though I may be mistaken.

My mother has a blue badge as she has great difficulty walking. Ikea
do provide wheelchairs. I would be happy to collect a wheelchair and
trundle her all the way from the far side of the car park, however the
disabled bays are close to the shop and they are the only ones that
have a wide enough space between cars to bring a wheelchair to the
door of the car.

Tony Raven said:

Tom Crispin wrote on 28/04/2007 19:11 +0100:

Quoted message said:

And Oh what joy and
poetic justice as a perfectly healthy (physically at least) man
emerged from the deformed vehicle.

It's a common misconception that a disabled person has to show physical
signs to be disabled (and be too poor to own a relatively expensive
car). He may or may not have been disabled but it is a shame the mob
made their usual presumptions.

Quite. My Aged Ma has a disabled badge. She looks perfectly OK to the
casual observer, but has bronchial asthma which greatly restricts the
distance she is able to walk.

--
Carol
"The glassblower's cat is bompstable"
- Dorothy L. Sayers, _Clouds of Witness_

Tony Raven said:

Tom Crispin wrote on 29/04/2007 12:14 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Most people, including those with a disability, can cope with a little
banter.

People used to say that about race or gender but it was equally
unacceptable there as it is here.

That's when the banter is race or gender specific.

The car park banter was about the man's driving ability and choice of
parking place rather than any personal mobility difficulty.

For example, had someone cried out, "you drive like a woman" it would
have been insulting to any women waiting for the shop to open.

Instead a mockery was made of his sat nav system, his choice of
parking place and if he'd report the damage he'd done to the bollard.

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:14:59 +0100, Peter Amey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As a current (I hope temporary) holder of a blue badge I would strongly
agree that it can be difficult to separate legitimate use from misuse;
although I do think there is a quite a lot of the latter).

I wish you a speedy recovery.

Would you feel it a direct insult on your temporary disability if
after driving into a bollard there was some banter about sat. nav.
systems, choice of parking place and damage to property?

Tom Crispin wrote on 29/04/2007 18:19 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

People used to say that about race or gender but it was equally
unacceptable there as it is here.

That's when the banter is race or gender specific.

The car park banter was about the man's driving ability and choice of
parking place rather than any personal mobility difficulty.

That's not the story as you told it.

If I may remind you you said:

I was pondering whether the driver of a black Mazda RX-8 was really
disabled as he went into the disabled bay closest to the entrance
door......I then heard a satisfying crunch. The
driver had gone straight into a concrete bollard. And Oh what joy and
poetic justice as a perfectly healthy (physically at least) man
emerged from the deformed vehicle. A titter grew from my fellow
shoppers during our grandstand view of the hapless driver's clear
discontent at the sight of the damage.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin wrote on 28/04/2007 19:11 +0100:

Quoted message said:

And Oh what joy and
poetic justice as a perfectly healthy (physically at least) man
emerged from the deformed vehicle.

It's a common misconception that a disabled person has to show physical
signs to be disabled (and be too poor to own a relatively expensive car).
He may or may not have been disabled but it is a shame the mob made their
usual presumptions.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

You are also entitled to a blue badge if you are the carer for a person
with a disability! So he might have gone into the shop to pick someone up!
Blue badges are not only issued to disabled drivers.
Fred

Tom Crispin wrote on 29/04/2007 18:24 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Would you feel it a direct insult on your temporary disability if

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

after driving into a bollard there was some banter about sat. nav.
systems, choice of parking place and damage to property?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You've done it again! You are linking mocking his accident to being
just deserts for parking in a disabled space. If it had been a woman
driver would you have said " 'Ere love, you should have got a man to
drive you to the shops" or "Did you boyfriend not show you how to use
the GPS?" I hope your handling of diversity at school is better than
you have demonstrated here.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:14:59 +0100, Peter Amey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As a current (I hope temporary) holder of a blue badge I would strongly
agree that it can be difficult to separate legitimate use from misuse;
although I do think there is a quite a lot of the latter).

I wish you a speedy recovery.

Would you feel it a direct insult on your temporary disability if
after driving into a bollard there was some banter about sat. nav.
systems, choice of parking place and damage to property?

Tom, just let it lie.....

fred2 said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Crispin wrote on 28/04/2007 19:11 +0100:

Quoted message said:

And Oh what joy and poetic justice as a perfectly healthy
(physically at least) man emerged from the deformed vehicle.

It's a common misconception that a disabled person has to show
physical signs to be disabled (and be too poor to own a relatively
expensive car). He may or may not have been disabled but it is a
shame the mob made their usual presumptions.

You are also entitled to a blue badge if you are the carer for a
person with a disability! So he might have gone into the shop to
pick someone up! Blue badges are not only issued to disabled
drivers.

In that case, aren't they meant to only be used when transporting the
relevant disabled person around?

Chris
--
Chris Eilbeck