OT suv's

ilaboo said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's

but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.

thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
wheels in the back.

also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab

see this trend in your city?

Seems that every tradesman that would have driven a 2.4L four banger
Toyota fifteen years ago, now has a gargantuan model with a V8. My
neighbor uses a Dodge version of this obnoxiousness to haul a good 2-3
gallons of paint at a time.

Quoted message said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's
but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx. thing now
are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of wheels in
the back.
also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab see this trend in your city?
peter

As a matter of fact, I was listening to Ed Wallace's weekend show "Wheels"
on the radio on Saturday, and he said the same thing. SUV sales are 'way
down whereas in Texas, at least, pickups are selling more than ever.

I think it is due to their poor gas mileage. He said the number one
complain of Hummer buyers was that they "had no idea that Hummers only got 4
mph" when they bought them.

Go figure!

Pat in TX

landotter said:

ilaboo said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's

Quoted message said:

but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.

Quoted message said:

thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
wheels in the back.

Quoted message said:

also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab

Quoted message said:

see this trend in your city?

Seems that every tradesman that would have driven a 2.4L four banger
Toyota fifteen years ago, now has a gargantuan model with a V8. My
neighbor uses a Dodge version of this obnoxiousness to haul a good 2-3
gallons of paint at a time.

I see this said about working trucks all the time, and it annoys me.
Do you watch your neighbor all the time, to be sure that he only moves
a few gallons of paint? Do you follow him around to see if he's using
his vehicle in accordance with what you think is "necessary" to drive
such a vehicle? Is he a contractor, painter, carpenter or something
of the like?

If you lived across the street from my parents, you'd probably say the
same thing about my dad. Great big truck, fully lettered commercial
F250 long bed extended cab 4 door, to be precise. More often than
not, it leaves the driveway and comes home after with little enough
stuff in the back that it would be child's play for my short bed,
regular cab Ranger. There are also usually 2 occupants as well, him &
the pup, Sandy. However, when he leaves the house, he's off to work.
Step one is often to go round up the crew, whatever laborers,
painters, carpenters etc. don't have a vehicle or license. Now the
cab is full. Then it's off to the Depot, where the bed is loaded up
with lumber, concrete, tools, stones, pavers, etc. Once the truck is
loaded up like this, he doesn't go back to the driveway so the
neighbors can approve of his vehicle usage, he goes to the jobsite.
The stuff is unloaded, the job is started, and at the end of the day
the guys are dropped off. The truck comes home about as empty as it
left: Him, the pup and some odds and ends in the bed. Furthermore,
he spends an easy 30+ hours per week in this truck, and spending an
hour in my Ranger bothers his back. My ranger would also have a hard
time (read: totally [censored] the sheets) if I tried to pull a 12,000 lb.
GVW dump trailer.

An interesting aside, he gets better mileage overall with the new,
bigger, heavier 3/4 ton than he did in his old 1/2 ton, and the new truck
has a bigger engine to boot. When you factor in how hard the vehicle
has to work to move a load the larger vehicles make more sense. It
seems to me your self-righteous assessment of others vehicles is ill/
under informed at best, and makes you out to be a bit of a jerk at
worst.

.. It

Quoted message said:

seems to me your self-righteous assessment of others vehicles is ill/
under informed at best, and makes you out to be a bit of a jerk at
worst.

where i come from when you have something nasty to say to someone you say it
in there face

you got something to say to me?

peter

ilaboo said:

. It

Quoted message said:

seems to me your self-righteous assessment of others vehicles is ill/
under informed at best, and makes you out to be a bit of a jerk at
worst.

where i come from when you have something nasty to say to someone you
say it in there face

you got something to say to me?

Usenet POTD!

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

ilaboo said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's
but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.
thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
wheels in the back.
also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab
see this trend in your city?

Seems that every tradesman that would have driven a 2.4L four banger
Toyota fifteen years ago, now has a gargantuan model with a V8. My
neighbor uses a Dodge version of this obnoxiousness to haul a good 2-3
gallons of paint at a time.

I see this said about working trucks all the time, and it annoys me.
Do you watch your neighbor all the time, to be sure that he only moves
a few gallons of paint? Do you follow him around to see if he's using
his vehicle in accordance with what you think is "necessary" to drive
such a vehicle? Is he a contractor, painter, carpenter or something
of the like?

If you lived across the street from my parents, you'd probably say the
same thing about my dad. Great big truck, fully lettered commercial
F250 long bed extended cab 4 door, to be precise. More often than
not, it leaves the driveway and comes home after with little enough
stuff in the back that it would be child's play for my short bed,
regular cab Ranger. There are also usually 2 occupants as well, him &
the pup, Sandy. However, when he leaves the house, he's off to work.
Step one is often to go round up the crew, whatever laborers,
painters, carpenters etc. don't have a vehicle or license. Now the
cab is full. Then it's off to the Depot, where the bed is loaded up
with lumber, concrete, tools, stones, pavers, etc. Once the truck is
loaded up like this, he doesn't go back to the driveway so the
neighbors can approve of his vehicle usage, he goes to the jobsite.
The stuff is unloaded, the job is started, and at the end of the day
the guys are dropped off. The truck comes home about as empty as it
left: Him, the pup and some odds and ends in the bed. Furthermore,
he spends an easy 30+ hours per week in this truck, and spending an
hour in my Ranger bothers his back. My ranger would also have a hard
time (read: totally [censored] the sheets) if I tried to pull a 12,000 lb.
GVW dump trailer....

While this is certainly reasonable use for 3/4-ton truck, it is not
typically of far too many. The cleanliness of the truck is usually a
give-away as to whether it is a real work truck.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

landotter said:

ilaboo said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's

Quoted message said:

but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.

Quoted message said:

thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
wheels in the back.

Quoted message said:

also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab

Quoted message said:

see this trend in your city?

Seems that every tradesman that would have driven a 2.4L four banger
Toyota fifteen years ago, now has a gargantuan model with a V8. My
neighbor uses a Dodge version of this obnoxiousness to haul a good 2-3
gallons of paint at a time.

ilaboo said:

. It> seems to me your self-righteous assessment of others vehicles is ill/

Quoted message said:

under informed at best, and makes you out to be a bit of a jerk at
worst.

where i come from when you have something nasty to say to someone you say it
in there face

you got something to say to me?

peter

Peter,

For one so quick to cast judgments and criticize with such a broad
brush, you seem awfully touch to some criticism yourself.

Dan

landotter said:

ilaboo said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's

Quoted message said:

but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.

Quoted message said:

thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
wheels in the back.

Quoted message said:

also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab

Quoted message said:

see this trend in your city?

Seems that every tradesman that would have driven a 2.4L four banger
Toyota fifteen years ago, now has a gargantuan model with a V8. My
neighbor uses a Dodge version of this obnoxiousness to haul a good 2-3
gallons of paint at a time.

ilaboo said:

. It> seems to me your self-righteous assessment of others vehicles is ill/

Quoted message said:

under informed at best, and makes you out to be a bit of a jerk at
worst.

where i come from when you have something nasty to say to someone you say it
in there face

you got something to say to me?

peter

Peter,

For one so quick to cast judgments and criticize with such a broad
brush, you seem awfully touch to some criticism yourself.

Dan

On Jan 10, 9:02 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

landotter said:

On Jan 8, 9:10 am, "ilaboo" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's
> but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.
> thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
> wheels in the back.
> also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
> cab
> see this trend in your city?
Seems that every tradesman that would have driven a 2.4L four banger
Toyota fifteen years ago, now has a gargantuan model with a V8. My
neighbor uses a Dodge version of this obnoxiousness to haul a good 2-3
gallons of paint at a time.

Quoted message said:

I see this said about working trucks all the time, and it annoys me.
Do you watch your neighbor all the time, to be sure that he only moves
a few gallons of paint? Do you follow him around to see if he's using
his vehicle in accordance with what you think is "necessary" to drive
such a vehicle? Is he a contractor, painter, carpenter or something
of the like?

Quoted message said:

If you lived across the street from my parents, you'd probably say the
same thing about my dad. Great big truck, fully lettered commercial
F250 long bed extended cab 4 door, to be precise. More often than
not, it leaves the driveway and comes home after with little enough
stuff in the back that it would be child's play for my short bed,
regular cab Ranger. There are also usually 2 occupants as well, him &
the pup, Sandy. However, when he leaves the house, he's off to work.
Step one is often to go round up the crew, whatever laborers,
painters, carpenters etc. don't have a vehicle or license. Now the
cab is full. Then it's off to the Depot, where the bed is loaded up
with lumber, concrete, tools, stones, pavers, etc. Once the truck is
loaded up like this, he doesn't go back to the driveway so the
neighbors can approve of his vehicle usage, he goes to the jobsite.
The stuff is unloaded, the job is started, and at the end of the day
the guys are dropped off. The truck comes home about as empty as it
left: Him, the pup and some odds and ends in the bed. Furthermore,
he spends an easy 30+ hours per week in this truck, and spending an
hour in my Ranger bothers his back. My ranger would also have a hard
time (read: totally [censored] the sheets) if I tried to pull a 12,000 lb.
GVW dump trailer....

While this is certainly reasonable use for 3/4-ton truck, it is not
typically of far too many. The cleanliness of the truck is usually a
give-away as to whether it is a real work truck.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can you really be sure how many are used like this, and how many are
not? If a truck spends 2 hours per day, twice a week hauling
materials it's already likely to be cheaper to have a vehicle with
which you can haul the stuff than it would be to drive a light truck
and have it delivered. I'd say most 3/4 ton trucks fit this bill, and
I'd expect it's more than 4 hours per week. If the truck is being
used 4 hours a week, and there are 168 hours in a week, what are the
odds you'll see the truck while it's hauling a bunch of stuff?

Quoted post said:

On Jan 10, 9:02 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The cleanliness of the truck is usually a
give-away as to whether it is a real work truck.

Can you really be sure how many are used like this, and how many are
not?

I don't think we need anything like exact numbers, to know that the
majority of pickups could be replaced by cars.

As an example: 30 years ago, pickups made up a far smaller percentage
of vehicles on the road than they do today. You can't pretend this is
from some great surge in the number of farmers or construction
workers!

And in my college classes, I've had opportunity to assign problems to
students, where each would make certain calculations based on their
own vehicle's characteristics. The number of pickup trucks astounds
me - and these are not farm boys.

Face it - a great proportion of pickups, like SUVs, are bought as
fashion items. An example would be the one belonging to the student
that gave me a ride home, with immaculate plush upholstery, a custom
paint job, a stereo system that would blow me out of my living room,
chrome wheels, etc. etc.

If you see a pickup with chromed wheels, it's not a work truck.

Quoted message said:

If a truck spends 2 hours per day, twice a week hauling
materials it's already likely to be cheaper to have a vehicle with
which you can haul the stuff than it would be to drive a light truck
and have it delivered.

Hmm. Sounds like a vehicle for a person who doesn't know the meaning
of "utility trailer."

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

For one so quick to cast judgments and criticize with such a broad
brush, you seem awfully touch to some criticism yourself.

Dan

dan it's not tru--i hve been using usenets for over 10 years and never if i
recall responded in kind-

it really leads nowhere-and i know it but when i get nastiness on bike
uenet, and after my experiences with cycles here in the bronxs--sometimes
and appropriate response i feel is justified

t

tia
peter

Quoted message said:

Usenet POTD!

i assume that pord means post on the top of of message you respond to

people tell me to post on the bottom of message

confused

peter

ilaboo said:

Quoted message said:

Usenet POTD!

i assume that pord means post on the top of of message you respond to

people tell me to post on the bottom of message

confused

"Post Of The Day"

(And yes, the bottom posting is appreciated.)

Quoted message said:

Quoted post said:

On Jan 10, 9:02 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The cleanliness of the truck is usually a
give-away as to whether it is a real work truck.

Quoted message said:

Can you really be sure how many are used like this, and how many are
not?

I don't think we need anything like exact numbers, to know that the
majority of pickups could be replaced by cars.

As an example: 30 years ago, pickups made up a far smaller percentage
of vehicles on the road than they do today. You can't pretend this is
from some great surge in the number of farmers or construction
workers!

I'd say some other factors are the fact that the average plot of land
is smaller, and people don't have the parking for multiple vehicles
like they used to. Also, insurance - probably not overly common or
mandatory 30 years ago. These days the cost of keeping multiple
vehicles is overwhelming. I would have liked a full size truck for
occasional use and a car for daily driving/commuting, but it wasn't
feasibly possible so I had to settle for a compact pickup.

Quoted message said:

And in my college classes, I've had opportunity to assign problems to
students, where each would make certain calculations based on their
own vehicle's characteristics. The number of pickup trucks astounds
me - and these are not farm boys.

Face it - a great proportion of pickups, like SUVs, are bought as
fashion items. An example would be the one belonging to the student
that gave me a ride home, with immaculate plush upholstery, a custom
paint job, a stereo system that would blow me out of my living room,
chrome wheels, etc. etc.

I never claimed they were not, though the "great" in "great
proportion" is subjective.

Quoted message said:

If you see a pickup with chromed wheels, it's not a work truck.

[censored]. I can't say I'm surprised, but still. I could show you a
slew of work trucks parked in front of a local pub any weekday between
5 & 7 PM. Most of them have chrome wheels. These days, most trucks
come with them, especially if you wanted other options. My dad's work
truck has a ton of chrome, but it was already on the lot and it also
had the options he cared about. To order a truck you'd be more likely
to approve of (delete the chrome and whatever other options) would
have cost even more.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a truck spends 2 hours per day, twice a week hauling
materials it's already likely to be cheaper to have a vehicle with
which you can haul the stuff than it would be to drive a light truck
and have it delivered.

Hmm. Sounds like a vehicle for a person who doesn't know the meaning
of "utility trailer."

Sounds like someone who does not have much experience in the field.
For one, you're assuming storage for the utility trailer, in addition
to the other trucks, the box truck, the dump trailer, etc. For
another, if something comes up when you're on the job you'd then have
to go get the trailer to go get the materials, instead of being able
to just go get the needed materials and get back onto the job. Time
is money, and the extra driving negates the benefit. Further, when a
customer wants a house remodeled and they call a contractor for a bid,
they expect to see a big lettered work truck, not a 1985 civic wagon.
With the exception of the extremists like yourself, most people would
be turned off by their contractor arriving in a car. Lastly, I should
point out, I mentioned that I think the 2 hours per day twice a week
is on the minimal use end of the scale for 3/4 ton work trucks.

ilaboo said:

Quoted message said:

For one so quick to cast judgments and criticize with such a broad
brush, you seem awfully touch to some criticism yourself.

Quoted message said:

Dan

dan it's not tru--i hve been using usenets for over 10 years and never if i
recall responded in kind-

it really leads nowhere-and i know it but when i get nastiness on  bike
uenet, and after my experiences with cycles here in the bronxs--sometimes
and appropriate response i feel is justified

t

tia
peter

Peter,

You lost me.

Dan

ilaboo said:

i see lots sof posts on this usenet about suv's

but let they and humvees are now passe at least in the bronx.

thing now are 1/2 ton pickups with cabs, 4 wheel drive and double sets of
wheels in the back.

also there is one person in my neighboorhood who drives a tractor trailer
cab

see this trend in your city?

cry the beloved world

peter

In Houston, dang H2's a midsize ver-hic-cle, made for the school run.
F350's a man car.

I'm only half kiddin'.

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

I don't think we need anything like exact numbers, to know that the
majority of pickups could be replaced by cars.

Quoted message said:

As an example: 30 years ago, pickups made up a far smaller percentage
of vehicles on the road than they do today. You can't pretend this is
from some great surge in the number of farmers or construction
workers!

I'd say some other factors are the fact that the average plot of land
is smaller, and people don't have the parking for multiple vehicles
like they used to.

Do you _seriously_ think this has had more of an effect than fashion?
I really, really doubt it. I _know_ it's not the case for pickup
users of my acquaintance.

Quoted message said:

I would have liked a full size truck for
occasional use and a car for daily driving/commuting, but it wasn't
feasibly possible so I had to settle for a compact pickup.

I'm a bit curious about the use of your pickup. What business are you
in?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And in my college classes, I've had opportunity to assign problems to
students, where each would make certain calculations based on their
own vehicle's characteristics. The number of pickup trucks astounds
me - and these are not farm boys.

Quoted message said:

Face it - a great proportion of pickups, like SUVs, are bought as
fashion items. An example would be the one belonging to the student
that gave me a ride home, with immaculate plush upholstery, a custom
paint job, a stereo system that would blow me out of my living room,
chrome wheels, etc. etc.

I never claimed they were not, though the "great" in "great
proportion" is subjective.

Quoted message said:

If you see a pickup with chromed wheels, it's not a work truck.

[censored]. I can't say I'm surprised, but still. I could show you a
slew of work trucks parked in front of a local pub any weekday between
5 & 7 PM. Most of them have chrome wheels.

Hmm. That doesn't seem to be the case around here. We just remodeled
our house, a major project. Of the five (I think) pickups that were
driven here at various times, none had chrome wheels. In fact, all
had that dull and dented patina that usually comes when a pickup does
real work.

OTOH, the ones I passed today were mostly nice and shiny - wheels
included. The great volume of materials and tools those "workers"
needed somehow fit under the Armor-Alled bed covers.

Maybe we just have more delicate framing contractors. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a truck spends 2 hours per day, twice a week hauling
materials it's already likely to be cheaper to have a vehicle with
which you can haul the stuff than it would be to drive a light truck
and have it delivered.

Quoted message said:

Hmm. Sounds like a vehicle for a person who doesn't know the meaning
of "utility trailer."

Sounds like someone who does not have much experience in the field.
For one, you're assuming storage for the utility trailer, in addition
to the other trucks, the box truck, the dump trailer, etc. For
another, if something comes up when you're on the job you'd then have
to go get the trailer to go get the materials, instead of being able
to just go get the needed materials and get back onto the job. Time
is money, and the extra driving negates the benefit. Further, when a
customer wants a house remodeled and they call a contractor for a bid,
they expect to see a big lettered work truck, not a 1985 civic wagon.
With the exception of the extremists like yourself, most people would
be turned off by their contractor arriving in a car. Lastly, I should
point out, I mentioned that I think the 2 hours per day twice a week
is on the minimal use end of the scale for 3/4 ton work trucks.

I won't dispute that there are people who need trucks of various
kinds, including 3/4 ton pickups. But I think your justifications
have very little to do with the vast majority of pickups on the road.

As an example: Europe somehow manages to get its construction done
using a completely different array of vehicles. Workers there, in my
admittedly limited experience, seem to arrive in tiny panel trucks.
In fact, the electrician on our home project arrived in a small panel
truck. We had no urge to shoo him away!

But I repeat: I believe the vast majority of pickups on the roads have
nothing to do with work. Ford F-150s are popular simply because
they're popular. Leather covered captain's chairs? Entertainment
systems? Power-adjustable pedals? Chrome wheels? Work truck???

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Face it - a great proportion of pickups, like SUVs, are bought as
fashion items. An example would be the one belonging to the student
that gave me a ride home, with immaculate plush upholstery, a custom
paint job, a stereo system that would blow me out of my living room,
chrome wheels, etc. etc.

A work truck can also be a personal truck. It's usually only
farm trucks that are stripped down. Other work trucks that
I see around here have all the bells and whistles.

Quoted message said:

If you see a pickup with chromed wheels, it's not a work truck.

I don't think that is a determining factor so much any more.

I'd say the "non-work truck" truck is most likely a half ton.
Any 3/4 or 1 ton is likely dedicated to work or more serious
hauling.

Half ton trucks have been gentrified for the type of user
you are critiquing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a truck spends 2 hours per day, twice a week hauling
materials it's already likely to be cheaper to have a vehicle with
which you can haul the stuff than it would be to drive a light truck
and have it delivered.

Hmm. Sounds like a vehicle for a person who doesn't know the meaning
of "utility trailer."

I don't think you understand the full implications of "hauling".

Just because you can haul 10,000 pounds in your little Honda
Civic doesn't mean you should!

With the joys of gearing, small engines at high rpms in low
gears can indeed pull very heavy things.

Such vehicles don't stop very well, nor last very long and
the drivers that do such things using their utility trailers
deserve the tickets they get when/if they get caught out in
public with such hauling equipment.

SMH

Stephen Harding said:

Quoted message said:

Face it - a great proportion of pickups, like SUVs, are bought as
fashion items. An example would be the one belonging to the student
that gave me a ride home, with immaculate plush upholstery, a custom
paint job, a stereo system that would blow me out of my living room,
chrome wheels, etc. etc.

A work truck can also be a personal truck. It's usually only
farm trucks that are stripped down. Other work trucks that
I see around here have all the bells and whistles.

Quoted message said:

If you see a pickup with chromed wheels, it's not a work truck.

I don't think that is a determining factor so much any more.

I'd say the "non-work truck" truck is most likely a half ton.
Any 3/4 or 1 ton is likely dedicated to work or more serious
hauling.

Half ton trucks have been gentrified for the type of user
you are critiquing.

Around here I see 1 ton dually pickups lowered to the point they have
less ground clearance than my Honda Civic, with 20+-inch chrome
"spinner" rims and low profile street tread tires. No way such a truck
could carry a real load or make it across a normal construction site.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If a truck spends 2 hours per day, twice a week hauling
materials it's already likely to be cheaper to have a vehicle with
which you can haul the stuff than it would be to drive a light truck
and have it delivered.

Hmm. Sounds like a vehicle for a person who doesn't know the meaning
of "utility trailer."

I don't think you understand the full implications of "hauling".

Just because you can haul 10,000 pounds in your little Honda
Civic doesn't mean you should!

With the joys of gearing, small engines at high rpms in low
gears can indeed pull very heavy things.

Such vehicles don't stop very well, nor last very long and
the drivers that do such things using their utility trailers
deserve the tickets they get when/if they get caught out in
public with such hauling equipment.

My experience is that a Ford F-350 with ~2500 pounds in the bed hauling
an ~6000 pound trailer does not stop well. Nor does a Ford F-550 loaded
up to about 21,000 pounds.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth