OT: Wireless networking and security.

dave said:

Tricky hey?

We actually have a new sport. For car passengers.. How many networks
can you get into in a trip. THe record is 11. THats 11 totally non
secure networks you could get into in one drive. Scarey huh?

I left my laptop running netstumbler on on my drive to work (10
miles), at least 50% on country lanes with no houses. 30 networks, 15
shown as open. Best are the ones where the SSID gives a big clue as
to the location - business name or address etc.

My neighbour was telling me that a short walk into town with a
wireless PDA is also enlightening - open networks which seem to be
located in Barclays Bank.

Tim

Neil Hardman said:

If the owner of this internet connection is on some kind of "pay as you go"
deal with their ISP, then you might be costing them real money as well as
the inconvenience of pinching bandwidth.

It is a theoretical possibility, but I believe it to be rare where I
live (in Japan). Of course, picking up a 10 pound note (or 10p coin) is
also potentially theft, too.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

Jon Senior said:

I pointed my wireless bridge at this router and presto... I have access
to the net.

Without recourse to expensive uni-directional aerials, how exactly do
you locate the owner of a wireless network? Given a potential range of
300m, there are a large number of possibilities.

Jon (The possibly immoral!)

Not near Admiral Lord Nelson School are you? 1,000 potential open
connectons FWIT by an I.T. manager!

Simon Brooke said:

I run an 802.11b network in the house; it's actually inside our
firewall. Originally I was very paranoid about security on it, but as
this made life exceedingly difficult when visitors wanted to use their
computers I've now greatly relaxed the security.

I have mine set up to accept only designated MAC addressess wirelessly,
but no other security. A guest can look up a MAC number on their card,
or connect using a wire.

--
Nick Kew

Tim Hall said:

I left my laptop running netstumbler on on my drive to work (10
miles), at least 50% on country lanes with no houses. 30 networks, 15
shown as open. Best are the ones where the SSID gives a big clue as
to the location - business name or address etc.

My neighbour was telling me that a short walk into town with a
wireless PDA is also enlightening - open networks which seem to be
located in Barclays Bank.

A broadcast SSID does not mean an open network. I broadcast mine but
you would have trouble connecting to it.

Tony

James Annan said:

Neil Hardman said:

If the owner of this internet connection is on some kind of "pay as
you go" deal with their ISP, then you might be costing them real money
as well as the inconvenience of pinching bandwidth.

It is a theoretical possibility, but I believe it to be rare where I
live (in Japan). Of course, picking up a 10 pound note (or 10p coin) is
also potentially theft, too.

James

Most of us don't live in Japan and PAYG is a very common option in the
UK. Its less like picking up a note or coin. More like spotting your
neighbours telephone cable going past your window and getting out the
croc clips to make some free calls.

Tony

Nick Kew said:

Simon Brooke said:

I run an 802.11b network in the house; it's actually inside our
firewall. Originally I was very paranoid about security on it, but as
this made life exceedingly difficult when visitors wanted to use their
computers I've now greatly relaxed the security.

I have mine set up to accept only designated MAC addressess wirelessly,
but no other security. A guest can look up a MAC number on their card,
or connect using a wire.

That stops people connecting to your router but doesn't stop them
picking up and reading the wireless communications between your
computers and the router. I would suggest you set at least the basic
level encryption.

Tony

Tony Raven said:

Tim Hall said:

I left my laptop running netstumbler on on my drive to work (10
miles), at least 50% on country lanes with no houses. 30 networks, 15
shown as open. Best are the ones where the SSID gives a big clue as
to the location - business name or address etc.

My neighbour was telling me that a short walk into town with a
wireless PDA is also enlightening - open networks which seem to be
located in Barclays Bank.

A broadcast SSID does not mean an open network. I broadcast mine but
you would have trouble connecting to it.

Also, an open access point doesn't mean an accessible network. All our
company access points are open, but they are firewalled off from
everywhere. You need to log in to the VPN to get connectivity to the
intranet or the internet.

Pete

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:35:03 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tim Hall said:

I left my laptop running netstumbler on on my drive to work (10
miles), at least 50% on country lanes with no houses. 30 networks, 15
shown as open. Best are the ones where the SSID gives a big clue as
to the location - business name or address etc.

My neighbour was telling me that a short walk into town with a
wireless PDA is also enlightening - open networks which seem to be
located in Barclays Bank.

A broadcast SSID does not mean an open network.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant open network with an SSID like "Joe's
Tools Ltd" when there's one firm called Joe's Tools in the village.

Quoted message said:

I broadcast mine but
you would have trouble connecting to it.

Same here.

Tim

Tony Raven said:

James Annan said:

Neil Hardman said:

If the owner of this internet connection is on some kind of "pay

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you go" deal with their ISP, then you might be costing them real

money

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as well as the inconvenience of pinching bandwidth.

It is a theoretical possibility, but I believe it to be rare where

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

live (in Japan). Of course, picking up a 10 pound note (or 10p

coin) is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

also potentially theft, too.

James

Most of us don't live in Japan and PAYG is a very common option in

the

Quoted message said:

UK.

I agree that if it is likely to actually cost someone else money, it is
not acceptable to use their connection.

James

Jon Senior said:

I have internet access again! In advance of my move to the flat next to
a friend and our corresponding wireless shared internet connection, I
set up one of the wireless bridges today. Once configured, I scanned the
local airwaves and found two wireless networks within reach, one
implements the WEP encryption, the other appears to be a wireless router
with all its default settings (SSID = default).

I pointed my wireless bridge at this router and presto... I have access
to the net.

So; morally or legally, what is the stance on this one. The cynic in me
would have it that a door left wide open is an invitation to enter, but
I feel I should get in touch with the owner and at the least, offer to
subsidise his connection for a month and lock down the security a little
better.

Without recourse to expensive uni-directional aerials, how exactly do
you locate the owner of a wireless network? Given a potential range of
300m, there are a large number of possibilities.

Jon (The possibly immoral!)

Tricky hey?

We actually have a new sport. For car passengers.. How many networks
can you get into in a trip. THe record is 11. THats 11 totally non
secure networks you could get into in one drive. Scarey huh?

Dave

Tony Raven <[email hidden]> wrote:

: There has been a test case and the arguement was rejected. Not being

Ta. Filed away.

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

Ningi <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Also, an open access point doesn't mean an accessible network. All our

Indeed. The ones that we are rolling out now broadcast their SSID and
have no WEP set. Doesn't mean they'll be of any use to you though 🙂

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

On 31 Jan 2005 11:00:20 GMT,

Arthur Clune said:

Ningi <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Also, an open access point doesn't mean an accessible network. All our

Indeed. The ones that we are rolling out now broadcast their SSID and
have no WEP set. Doesn't mean they'll be of any use to you though 🙂

That's what I do at home. Amusing all the people who connect and acquire
an IP and then proceed to broadcast netbios junk - obviously an
invitation for me to connect back to them :-)

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 01:14:40 +0000, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

So; morally or legally, what is the stance on this one. The cynic in me
would have it that a door left wide open is an invitation to enter, but
I feel I should get in touch with the owner and at the least, offer to
subsidise his connection for a month and lock down the security a little
better.

I'm still trying to track down which neighbour has a wide-open access
point. Mine is 802.11g and his is only 11b, so I have no incentive to
use his bandwidth instead of mine. Mine is, of course, restricted by
WEP, obscured SSID, nominated MAC address and an access password. But
in my office at work I can use Smeg's network any time I like :-)

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:42:44 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Under the Misuse of Computers Act 1990
it is an offence unless you are either the owner of the connection or
have been specifically authorised by the owner of the connection.

Asking nicely is always an option :-)

Guy
--
"then came ye chavves, theyre cartes girded wyth candels
blue, and theyre beastes wyth straynge horn-lyke thyngs
onn theyre arses that theyre fartes be herde from myles
around." Chaucer, the Sheppey Tales

Just zis Guy said:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 09:42:44 +0000, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Under the Misuse of Computers Act 1990
it is an offence unless you are either the owner of the connection or
have been specifically authorised by the owner of the connection.

Asking nicely is always an option :-)

Probably a necessary but not a sufficient condition. The owner has to
say yes to the nice request as well.

Tony