Pannier Sizes

Roos Eisma said:

Unless you enjoy doing wheelies in which case heavy rear panniers *do*
give suberb handling :-)

As do very low gears on steep hill climbs 🙂

- Richard

--
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Quoted message said:

If the train in question has a guard's van to put the bikes in, then a
trailer wouldn't be a problem. If the bicycle arrangements consist of a
space at one end of the passenger car with a pair of bike hooks, then a
trailer is definintely not going to work. When I took the Caledonian

Sleeper

Quoted message said:

last April the bicycle rode in a guard's van, with the front wheel

suspended

Quoted message said:

from a hook on the wall. Very nice, except I had to remove the front
panniers and deflate the (rather fat, 26 x 1.6"😉 front tire to get hoist

the

Quoted message said:

bike onto the hook. A trailer would have been a wonderful thing to have
then. By contrast, when I took Virgin trains from Holyhead to London, the
bicycle area was at one end of the passenger car, with room for two

bicycles

Quoted message said:

suspended by their top tubes from a pair of hooks at waist level. My bike
and 4 panniers was easy to get in with barely room for a second bike, but

a

Quoted message said:

trailer absolutely would not have fit.

Thanks for this.

OK... I'll expand a little. I'm going LE -> JOG in September. The train
down will be 1st Great Western. Coming back: still not sure how it's
going to exactly work yet, but no doubt ScotRail will be involved at
least some of the way (i.e. from Thurso).

Can anybody comment on the cycle storage facilities in trains for these
2 companies, and whether taking a trailer would be feasible on either?

Thanks

Mark

Mark said:

OK... I'll expand a little. I'm going LE -> JOG in September. The train
down will be 1st Great Western. Coming back: still not sure how it's
going to exactly work yet, but no doubt ScotRail will be involved at
least some of the way (i.e. from Thurso).

Can anybody comment on the cycle storage facilities in trains for these
2 companies, and whether taking a trailer would be feasible on either?

I've taken a tandem on First Great Western, no problem. Both journeys
used rolling stock with a guards' van of sorts, kitted out with bike
racks and plenty of room for a Bob trailer.

This was two years ago, Paddington-St Austell.

Tim

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On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 00:16:14 +0100, Tim Hall
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I've taken a tandem on First Great Western, no problem. Both journeys
used rolling stock with a guards' van of sorts, kitted out with bike
racks and plenty of room for a Bob trailer.

But the HSTs are nearing their end of life, and the new Adelantes have
much more limited space - according to the Tandem Club you need to
remove the front wheel and hang our tandem upside down by the rear
wheel!

Guy
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Gonzalez said:

I felt perfectly safe rolling round hairpin bends on Pyreneean passes
at 35mph+. The extra weight makes the bike grip the road surface, low
weight at the front give you a real feel for the bike, and you don't
have to lean into the turn as much as you would have to on an unladen
bike.

Well, whatever floats your boat, but if you can find any regular road
cyclist here aside from yourself who'd sooner do hairpins at 35 with
lowrider panniers than without a load at all I'd be fairly surprised:
I've never come across the folk that get a lift up big passes to zoom
down adding extra weights to their forks to make life easier...

The only bike I've ridden where lowriders don't detract from the
handling at all is the Streetmachine, but that "cheats" with the load
underneath the rider between the wheels, rather than directly loading
the steering mechanism.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Gonzalez said:

I felt perfectly safe rolling round hairpin bends on Pyreneean passes
at 35mph+. The extra weight makes the bike grip the road surface, low
weight at the front give you a real feel for the bike, and you don't
have to lean into the turn as much as you would have to on an unladen
bike.

Well, whatever floats your boat, but if you can find any regular road
cyclist here aside from yourself who'd sooner do hairpins at 35 with
lowrider panniers than without a load at all I'd be fairly surprised:
I've never come across the folk that get a lift up big passes to zoom
down adding extra weights to their forks to make life easier...

It used to be common in the TdF for riders to be passed water bottles
at the cols. Now they have set feeding stations after some wag loaded
his bike with lead water bottles before descending. Of course this
was to help with speed, not handling - nevertheless, I feel very
stable descending with laden panniers.

Quoted message said:

The only bike I've ridden where lowriders don't detract from the
handling at all is the Streetmachine, but that "cheats" with the load
underneath the rider between the wheels, rather than directly loading
the steering mechanism.

Gonzalez said:

It used to be common in the TdF for riders to be passed water bottles
at the cols. Now they have set feeding stations after some wag loaded
his bike with lead water bottles before descending.

I thought it was more to do with being passed dubious substances,
although I suppose lead could be classified as such.

John B

Gonzalez said:

It used to be common in the TdF for riders to be passed water bottles
at the cols. Now they have set feeding stations after some wag loaded
his bike with lead water bottles before descending. Of course this
was to help with speed, not handling - nevertheless, I feel very
stable descending with laden panniers.

Would carrying extra weight in a bottle really help with the descent
speed?
But in any case, weight mounted under the rider's centre of mass in the
main frame will cause rather different behaviour to loading the steering
forks as lowriders do.

I'm not saying laden front panniers make the bike badly unstable, just
that they have a negative effect compared to an unladen bike. I did say
higher up the thread that splitting big loads front and rear made the
bike far more stable than putting it all on the back.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:03:12 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez said:

It used to be common in the TdF for riders to be passed water bottles
at the cols. Now they have set feeding stations after some wag loaded
his bike with lead water bottles before descending. Of course this
was to help with speed, not handling - nevertheless, I feel very
stable descending with laden panniers.

Would carrying extra weight in a bottle really help with the descent
speed?

They shouldn't, for the same reason that pendulums don't swing faster
if you make the bob heavier.

The extra weight makes for extra 'dropping' force.

But the extra weight needs extra force to move it. In fact, extra
force that's exactly the same as the extra dropping force.

......but, a bike going down a hill always has significant air
resistance acting upon it, and it becomes more significant with the
square of the speed attained - so when high speeds are attained, like
on long descents, it can easily be having more effect than rolling
resistance.

If the weights were made so that they did not affect the shape of the
bike + biker, the air resistance would become smaller relative to the
force due to gravity, and therefore lead weights would help keep speed
up (or increase the top speed possible)

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"Gawnsoft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:03:12 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Gonzalez said:

It used to be common in the TdF for riders to be passed water bottles
at the cols. Now they have set feeding stations after some wag loaded
his bike with lead water bottles before descending. Of course this
was to help with speed, not handling - nevertheless, I feel very
stable descending with laden panniers.

Would carrying extra weight in a bottle really help with the descent
speed?

They shouldn't, for the same reason that pendulums don't swing faster
if you make the bob heavier.

The extra weight makes for extra 'dropping' force.

But the extra weight needs extra force to move it. In fact, extra
force that's exactly the same as the extra dropping force.

.....but, a bike going down a hill always has significant air
resistance acting upon it, and it becomes more significant with the
square of the speed attained - so when high speeds are attained, like
on long descents, it can easily be having more effect than rolling
resistance.

If the weights were made so that they did not affect the shape of the
bike + biker, the air resistance would become smaller relative to the
force due to gravity, and therefore lead weights would help keep speed
up (or increase the top speed possible)

Please reassure us that you don't work in physics or engineering! :-)
--
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bare needs of survival and have progressed to the transcendant."
- Marc Goodman in talk.bizarre

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I'm not saying laden front panniers make the bike badly unstable, just
: that they have a negative effect compared to an unladen bike. I did say
: higher up the thread that splitting big loads front and rear made the
: bike far more stable than putting it all on the back.

I remember reading an article in the CTC mag where the author rode with
French tourists in the Alps and they used front panniers only to give
better handling that having the same weight in rear panniers.

Of course, handling was still worse than it would have been without
the luggage.

And this is the complete opposite of what the OP was originally proposing...

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:40:51 +0200, "Mark South"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Please reassure us that you don't work in physics or engineering! :-)

Please feel reassured. I'm a social scientist!

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
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"Gawnsoft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:40:51 +0200, "Mark South"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Please reassure us that you don't work in physics or engineering! :-)

Please feel reassured. I'm a social scientist!

Is that pair of sentences a syllogism?

I can't think of anything more frightening than a social scientist :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:27:24 +0200, "Mark South"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

"Gawnsoft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:40:51 +0200, "Mark South"
<[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):

Quoted message said:

Please reassure us that you don't work in physics or engineering! :-)

Please feel reassured. I'm a social scientist!

Is that pair of sentences a syllogism?

I can't think of anything more frightening than a social scientist :-)

An engineer who's not civil?

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
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Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

Mark South said:

I can't think of anything more frightening than a social scientist
:-)

Civil servants who are neither civil nor servile?

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
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Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:22:22 +0100, "Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]>

wrote in message : said:

Civil servants who are neither civil nor servile?

Apropos of nothing much, I came across this gem the other day:
<url:http://www.abd.org.uk/otr/otr15web.pdf>

"RTS want cars banned from city centres, with hardliners seeing this
as a first step towards the goal of outlawing all motor vehicles and
rethinking economic activity based on zero growth. The group's leader
is an Oxfrod graduate, Roger Geffen, aged 31. His father, Dr Terence
Geffen, a former under-secretary at the Department of Health, is
reported to be "disappointed" when his son gave up work to become a
full-time protester, but who agrees with his ideas about cars. This
is evdence of the supportive link between the very top of the civil
service bureaucracy and the hardline eco terrorists that the ABD has
long suspected."

Amusing that Reclaim The Streets are "hardline eco-terrorists", doubly
amusing that a vague statement from one retired civil servant should
be taken as proof of a link between Government and these same hardline
eco-terrorists!

Still, I suppose it would be too much to expect ABD to be rational.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University