Pantothenic Acid megadose - permanent side effects

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Eggfriedmice, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    Hi there.

    Recently I have become very ill, and despite seeing a number of doctors and specialists, nobody is
    able to help me. So my last hope is that I'll find something or somebody on the internet who can
    help. It's a long story, so I hope you can bear with me...here goes...

    About 3 years ago, I started taking a megadose of Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) to cure my acne. And
    cure my acne it did, wonderfully. I took 10 grams a day in time-release form (4 doses of 2.5g
    daily), with no other b-vitamins - for 2 years solid. Amazingly, I experienced no side effects for 2
    years. But suddenly friends started to notice that my hair was a lot lighter. It was brittle and
    fine, and falling out more than usual. So I switched to non-timed release, and occasionally added a
    low-dose Multi-B vitamin to stave off any possible deficiencies caused by a b vitamin imbalance.

    This didn't help though, and I soon developed a strong tingling/buzzing sensation in my left foot,
    with constant tiny muscle twitches in my calves, bloating/stomach discomfort after lunch, intense
    restless legs at night, and some fatigue.

    Foolishly, I persisted with the B5 because I was hypnotised by the effect on my skin. But things
    turned from bad to worse - I developed a sore and swollen tongue, with mouth ulcers and tooth
    impressions down the sides. I had intermittent diarrhea, a rash of dermatitis round my nose, and
    occasional panic attacks. On top of this, the acne was starting to come back. So I dropped my B5 to
    5 grams a day, not wishing to bring on a rebound deficiency by stopping suddenly, and took 2 high
    dose multi-b vitamins a day (not at the same time as the
    B5). Sometimes I would take 2 b100 multi-b tablets, 2 b50s, and have 2 glasses of berocca a day, all
    in an attempt to redress my deficiency without having to give up the B5 altogether.

    Well, I improved, and each time I dropped the B5 some more, I got better for a few days - especially
    the nagging fatigue and low energy I had developed. But it would always gradually return, until I
    dropped it by another gram or two. This cycle continued until about 2 and a half months ago, when I
    finally stopped the B5 altogether after gradually reducing it. All the while, I carried on taking 2
    high-dose multi-b vitamins a day (by high dose I mean 100mgs of each one).

    For 2 weeks I felt brilliant, totally cured and happy. But then, over the next 2 months, I noticed
    that I would tire more easily again, and by midweek would practically collapse of exhaustion in the
    evening. Sleep would help me recover initially, but soon my sleep became disturbed with vivid dreams
    and early morning waking. Now I'm down to one b50 a day (medium dose multi-b), but the tiredness
    lasts all day and becomes extreme sometimes, feeling like dizziness and nausea. When I stopped all b
    vitamins for 2 weeks, including multis, I felt no better, possibly even worse. My brain fatigue is
    worse at weekends, I feel very spaced out and am never able to lie-in properly. I feel drained and
    ill, edgy and often breathless and weak. For the last few months I have also had a bright orange
    coating on my tongue, which can be brushed off, and is not related to what I eat. The acne hs
    completely returned.

    A trip to the dr failed to help - blood tests a month ago revealed no abnormalities with liver,
    kidneys, thyroid, b12 or folate status, bone profile, or red blood count - my only abnormality is
    low white blood cell count (about 3000/µL), but the dr dismisses this and says I have chronic
    fatigue syndrome. Folate was very high, so I stopped all vitamins for 2 weeks and repeated the test
    - again, B12 and folate were totally normal.

    I'm hoping someone might be able to answer some of my questions, because no doctor has known
    anything about b vitamins:

    1. Do you think I have a metabolic imbalance that can be redressed with proper supplementation of
    individual b vitamins which may have been depleted over time, or should I cut out all vitamins?
    2. Is it possible my body's demand for certain b vitamins has increased dramatically?
    3. Could this be a rebound b5 deficiency causing exhausted adrenal glands? I know B5 is very
    important for energy and adrenal function, but I had these symptoms whilst still taking a
    B5 megadose.
    4. Is this just chronic fatigue syndrome triggered by a long-standing nutrient defiency?

    Thank you for reading, any help at all would be enormously appreciated.
     
    Tags:


  2. Tim Tyler

    Tim Tyler Guest

    eggfriedmice <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote:

    : Recently I have become very ill, and despite seeing a number of doctors and specialists, nobody is
    : able to help me. So my last hope is that I'll find something or somebody on the internet who can
    : help. It's a long story, so I hope you can bear with me...here goes...

    : About 3 years ago, I started taking a megadose of Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) to cure my acne.
    : And cure my acne it did, wonderfully. I took 10 grams a day in time-release form (4 doses of 2.5g
    : daily), with no other b-vitamins - for 2 years solid. Amazingly, I experienced no side effects for
    : 2 years. [...]

    I'm not sure why that would be amazing.

    Is there any good reason to think you can overdose on vitamin B5?
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org
     
  3. markd

    markd Guest

    The other obvious possibility is that what you feel now coincided with the start of the vit. change,
    not because of it. It has much of the sound of depression too, especially the variable level of it
    over time. Do you exercise?
     
  4. Ron

    Ron Guest

    "eggfriedmice" <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > About 3 years ago, I started taking a megadose of Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) to cure my acne. I
    > soon developed a strong tingling/buzzing sensation in my left foot, with constant tiny muscle
    > twitches in my calves, bloating/stomach discomfort after lunch, intense restless legs at night,
    > and some fatigue.

    The most obvious and measurable effect of overdosing on Vitamin B5 is that it lowers phosphorus.
    This can over time be responsible for lowered stomach aid and subsequent bloating. Very low
    phosphorus will almost definitely create a calcium / phosphorus ratio conflict with negative effects
    on bone metabolism and muscle functions..

    > but the tiredness lasts all day and becomes extreme sometimes, feeling like dizziness and
    > nausea...

    Those are classic effects of Vitamin B5 overdose.

    > A trip to the dr failed to help - blood tests a month ago revealed no abnormalities

    Blood tests are notorious of missing a lot of kidney abnormalities, which may develop from
    mega-intake of B5. It you had your VLDL triglycerides checked, they would have likely been in the
    stratosphere as well, another nice benefit of mega-dosing on B5.

    The best way to counteract pantothenic acid overdose would be to increase your phosphorus and/or
    protein intake. Lecithin for instance will counteract B5 a lot, but it will possibly also make
    your acne worse. Niacinamide is probably the best choice in your case and will normalize
    phosphorus levels.

    You can also try to do it with food alone, where - other than a high protein intake - grain sources
    (pasta, bread, cereal...) at higher amounts will also get phosphate levels back up to normal again.
    Don't forget, at those mega levels, pantothenic acid isn't a harmless little essential vitamin any
    longer, but a drug, and drugs will give you side effects. Sooner or later! --Ron
     
  5. Tim Tyler

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Ron <ron@70707.org> wrote:
    : "eggfriedmice" <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote in message

    :> About 3 years ago, I started taking a megadose of Pantothenic Acid (vitamin B5) to cure my acne.
    :> I soon developed a strong tingling/buzzing sensation in my left foot, with constant tiny muscle
    :> twitches in my calves, bloating/stomach discomfort after lunch, intense restless legs at night,
    :> and some fatigue.

    No serious side effects have been reported, even at intakes of up to 10,000 mg per day.

    The known side effects of very large doses are diarrhea and sensitive teeth.

    : The most obvious and measurable effect of overdosing on Vitamin B5 is that it lowers phosphorus.

    Is there any evidence for this?

    :> but the tiredness lasts all day and becomes extreme sometimes, feeling like dizziness and
    :> nausea...

    : Those are classic effects of Vitamin B5 overdose.

    ...or this?

    : Blood tests are notorious of missing a lot of kidney abnormalities, which may develop from
    : mega-intake of B5. It you had your VLDL triglycerides checked, they would have likely been in the
    : stratosphere as well, another nice benefit of mega-dosing on B5.

    ...or this?
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org
     
  6. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    Ron - a thousand thanks for offering advice, you have no idea how much it's appreciated after
    dealing with doctor after doctor who doesn't even know the names of their B vitamins and just
    insists I have chronic fatigue syndrome! I will definitely try what you suggest, very encouraging.

    I've also noticed that I become extremely hungry before meals, and with this hunger comes dizziness
    and shakiness like hypoglycaemia. When I do eat, the tiredness is almost instantly exacerbated, and
    I feel like my nervous system is being agitated for a few hours afterwards - especially as my left
    foot will begin 'buzzing' again. All this suggests to me a digestive disorder - although I don't
    suffer from heartburn or constipation, just nausea and watery stools...urgh! sorry :¬(
     
  7. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    > I'm not sure why that would be amazing.
    >
    > Is there any good reason to think you can overdose on vitamin B5?

    This seems amazing because I've learnt from multiple sources that megadosing on one B vitamin in
    isolation - particularly of the timed-release variety - can prevent other B vitamins from being
    properly absorbed, or at the very least cause an imbalance which results in various neurological and
    metabolic disturbances etc. So to flood my body with 20 timed-release B5 tablets a day for 2 years,
    and not experience any side effects until then, seems remarkably lucky!
     
  8. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    markd@frog-link.com wrote in message news:<3f69d8f4$0$36060$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>...
    > The other obvious possibility is that what you feel now coincided with the start of the vit.
    > change, not because of it. It has much of the sound of depression too, especially the variable
    > level of it over time. Do you exercise?

    I'm in no doubt that anxiety and depression as a result of my symptoms are exacerbating the
    situation, but I've felt definite changes after shifting my B vitamin doses which I'm convinced
    aren't psychological. I still feel like I did when I was megadosing on B5 - and if I increased the
    amount, I would always feel much worse.

    As with all health problems though, it pays to remain positive so I will bear this in mind.
     
  9. Mouldy Mouse

    Mouldy Mouse Guest

    eggfriedmice@hotmail.com (eggfriedmice) wrote in message
    news:<d83d0d6c.0309180550.16799b87@posting.google.com>...
    > Hi there.
    >
    > Recently I have become very ill, and despite seeing a number of doctors and specialists, nobody is
    > able to help me. So my last hope is that I'll find something or somebody on the internet who can
    > help. It's a long story, so I hope you can bear with me...here goes...
    >

    > I'm hoping someone might be able to answer some of my questions, because no doctor has known
    > anything about b vitamins:
    >
    > 1. Do you think I have a metabolic imbalance that can be redressed with proper supplementation of
    > individual b vitamins which may have been depleted over time, or should I cut out all vitamins?
    > 2. Is it possible my body's demand for certain b vitamins has increased dramatically?
    > 3. Could this be a rebound b5 deficiency causing exhausted adrenal glands? I know B5 is very
    > important for energy and adrenal function, but I had these symptoms whilst still taking a B5
    > megadose.
    > 4. Is this just chronic fatigue syndrome triggered by a long-standing nutrient defiency?
    >
    > Thank you for reading, any help at all would be enormously appreciated.

    I'd say it is chronic fatigue syndrome with a severe amine sensitivity brought on by megadosing on B
    vitamins. B vitamins are notorious for being a problem for those with amine sensitivity. I can't
    take >DRI doses without getting a rash. You may find some relief on a FAILSAFE diet though you may
    retain your amine sensitivity. It may provide some relief for your acne if you're lucky.

    Visit http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/ for starters.
     
  10. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    > I'd say it is chronic fatigue syndrome with a severe amine sensitivity brought on by megadosing on
    > B vitamins. B vitamins are notorious for being a problem for those with amine sensitivity. I can't
    > take >DRI doses without getting a rash. You may find some relief on a FAILSAFE diet though you may
    > retain your amine sensitivity. It may provide some relief for your acne if you're lucky.
    >
    > Visit http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/ for starters.

    Thanks for the suggestions. I can't bear to entertain the possibility that it's chronic fatigue
    syndrome because everything I read about CFS says it normally lasts 3-6 years. Plus I don't have a
    lot of the typical symptoms - no aching joints, no fluey feelings or sore throats, and I don't
    usually have headaches. Tiredness and a feeling of being in a daze (like I've been hit round the
    head or am drunk) are my most frequent problems.

    As for amine sensitivity, I don't know anything about this so will try to do some research. Thanks.
     
  11. Tim Tyler

    Tim Tyler Guest

    eggfriedmice <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:

    :> I'm not sure why that would be amazing.
    :>
    :> Is there any good reason to think you can overdose on vitamin B5?

    : This seems amazing because I've learnt from multiple sources that megadosing on one B vitamin in
    : isolation - particularly of the timed-release variety - can prevent other B vitamins from being
    : properly absorbed, or at the very least cause an imbalance which results in various neurological
    : and metabolic disturbances etc. So to flood my body with 20 timed-release B5 tablets a day for 2
    : years, and not experience any side effects until then, seems remarkably lucky!

    Stupendously large doses of B5 are taken fairly often by acne sufferers. 10g is not
    particularly unusual.

    http://gmuntz.tripod.com/b5.html suggests 10g doses.

    It is possible that you are one of the first to experience chronic B5 toxicity - if so I'd be
    interested to hear about it.

    However it seems fairly likely that your problem has nothing to do with your B5 intake.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org
     
  12. Gym Bob

    Gym Bob Guest

    A friend of mine went through this crap and after a few years of doctors shoulder shrugs went to see
    a more progressive Naturopathic type MD.

    He diagnosed him as having parasites and prescribed magnesium and calcium shots followed by heavy
    supplements. He came around in a few months.

    His GP would not co-operate in a followup manner and would have nothing to do with the whole thing.
    He said magnesium was not related with parasites and refused to help or look at the test results.

    BTW: the local lab required instructions on how to test for these compounds the diagnosing doc
    requested.

    "eggfriedmice" <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:d83d0d6c.0309190614.5e5c1b48@posting.google.com...
    > > I'd say it is chronic fatigue syndrome with a severe amine sensitivity brought on by megadosing
    > > on B vitamins. B vitamins are notorious for being a problem for those with amine sensitivity. I
    > > can't take >DRI doses without getting a rash. You may find some relief on a FAILSAFE diet though
    > > you may retain your amine sensitivity. It may provide some relief for your acne if you're lucky.
    > >
    > > Visit http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/ for starters.
    >
    > Thanks for the suggestions. I can't bear to entertain the possibility that it's chronic fatigue
    > syndrome because everything I read about CFS says it normally lasts 3-6 years. Plus I don't have a
    > lot of the typical symptoms - no aching joints, no fluey feelings or sore throats, and I don't
    > usually have headaches. Tiredness and a feeling of being in a daze (like I've been hit round the
    > head or am drunk) are my most frequent problems.
    >
    > As for amine sensitivity, I don't know anything about this so will try to do some
    > research. Thanks.
     
  13. On 19 Sep 2003 01:49:02 -0700, eggfriedmice@hotmail.com (eggfriedmice) wrote:

    >I've also noticed that I become extremely hungry before meals, and with this hunger comes
    >dizziness and shakiness like hypoglycaemia. When I do eat, the tiredness is almost instantly
    >exacerbated, and I

    It might be caused by too fast emptying of the stomach content into duodenum. That attracts lot of
    blood to the veins surrounding the intestines and thus dizziness. Your symptoms sounds very like
    some Ihave had for several years, but seems to be due to fast stomach emptying.(and I do not eat any
    B-vitamin pills at all at the time, so no intoxication by B5 could be the cause)
     
  14. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> wrote in message news:<HLGCLw.4w3@bath.ac.uk>...
    >
    > No serious side effects have been reported, even at intakes of up to 10,000 mg per day.
    >
    > The known side effects of very large doses are diarrhea and sensitive teeth.
    >

    Tim, although medical reference books state that there are no known side effects other than diarrhea
    and sensitive teeth, I have read more and more acne sufferers recounting serious problems as a
    result of their B5 megadosing. From tiredness and eye problems, to serious B vitamin defiencies - it
    is now common knowledge on acne forums that B5 megadosing is bad news, and not the miracle cure it
    was once believed to be. How do you explain the fact that I suffered from a serious B vitamin
    defiency, with all the classic signs, for many months?

    The correlation between dropping my dose and feeling better is so strong that I refuse to believe
    B5 is not involved with the problem. When I re-introduce B5, I get worse - when I reduce it, I
    get better.

    My problem now is that I've cut it out altogether but the effects seem to be lasting.
     
  15. Eggfriedmice

    Eggfriedmice Guest

    Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> wrote in message news:<HLIKwH.Ltv@bath.ac.uk>...
    > eggfriedmice <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:
    >
    > However it seems fairly likely that your problem has nothing to do with your B5 intake.

    Tim, any ideas what my problem COULD be caused by? Any suggestions more than welcome! Thanks.
     
  16. Tim Tyler

    Tim Tyler Guest

    eggfriedmice <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote:
    : Tim Tyler <tim@tt1.org> wrote in message news:
    :> eggfriedmice <eggfriedmice@hotmail.com> wrote or quoted:

    :> However it seems fairly likely that your problem has nothing to do with your B5 intake.

    : Tim, any ideas what my problem COULD be caused by? Any suggestions more than welcome! Thanks.

    I haven't got your medical history and I'm not a doctor.

    B5 toxicity may not impossible - but I would be cautious about ruling out other options prematurely.

    For instance if your observations lead you to suspect your B5 pills, check out their other
    ingredients.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1.org
     
  17. SilverSlug

    SilverSlug New Member

    Joined:
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    There's a lot of info in McGraw Hill's "Nutrition Almanac", particularly under the individual nutrients.

    Some vitamin deficiencies mimic CFS (depression, fatigue, brain fog). Some B vitiamins (and PABA) are manufactured by gut biota. If your megadosing confused your system enough, it may have affected the microbe balance in your gut which could then result in vitamin deprivation.

    if you look through the B vitamins in the above mentioned (excellent, inexpensive paperback) book, you can get a sense of what's missing and also what to eat which is rich in what's missing.

    Gut biota imbalance is not a trivial problem. If you do conclude that this is your problem, go to an excellent natural foods/supplement store and ask for help in re-balancing/restoring you gut biota. It's doable, but it's work.

    The body more readily gets vitamins from foods than from supplements. If you conclude that you are now deficient in particular nutrients, the internet has a lot of info on what are good sources of missing nutrients. Example: Romaine lettuce is high in PABA (low PABA can manifest as chronic tiredness).

    I sympathize completely with your situation. It's only human to want to improve one's appearance and vitamins are so touted in this culture that the disadvantages of taking them are downplayed.

    Good Luck in your recovery.
     
  18. swizzly

    swizzly New Member

    Joined:
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    Hi there.
    How is your condition Eggfriedmice, did you get better, did something help you?
    I found this topic as my wife has similar issues described above, which I think, might be related to B5 overdose.
    She has been suffering from acne for a long time, nothing helped apart roaccutan, that is a very strong medicament, she wanted put down.
    We found on the net, that overdose of B5 helped many people. We though, we could give a try, nothing bad could happen, B5 should be safe since it is water soluble.
    About two months ago she began to take gradually increasing amount of B5: 1000mg-2000mg-4000mg. After a week she had the first symptoms: burning feeling in the left arm, some discomfort, anxiety, dry skin.
    She put down the B5 immediately. Unfortunately the symptoms stayed and worsened. Now she has anxiety, depression, no appetite, she lost considerable weight, increased pulse and the newest symptom is the tinnitus.
    She visited several physicians, psychologist and psychiatrist. Till now none of them could help. There are better times, when the symptoms weakens, but they are coming back after a day or two. She studies psychology at the university, which makes the things even more complicated, as she knows how ugly the psychological issues can be. I can't rule out, that her research on the topic and fear of psychological disorders worsened the symptoms.
    Anyway, she constantly analyze herself, and she couldn't find any real psychological reason for the symptoms. She used to have the same real-life problems before: stress due to university exams. We can't see a real reason that could trigger the issue apart from B5.
    Now she began to take B-complex 3 times a day (normal dose), but it just doesn't really help. We are now desperate, don't know what to do.
    She only used the B5 for a week or so, and the symptoms are still here, and they had even worsen.
    Regards,
    swizzly
     
  19. pamB

    pamB New Member

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    Hi swizzly i've just come across your post stating about your wife suffering vitamin b5 side effects im just curious to know whether she is still having them?

    I was taking b5 supplements for 2 years and for 1 of those years i was taking 10 grams (20 500,mg tablets/capsules a day) and it might sound weird but nearly all of my symptoms happened after i stopped taking them and im still suffering now to this day :( i stopped taking them in 2009 and my symptoms are still there i have very dry/flakey skin on my face and scalp,hair loss,stomach problems i.e indegestion,gas,nausea,burning etc, coated tongue,tiredness and thats just some of what im suffering with

    Im new to this site but i was wondering if you know of any other way i can contact eggfriedmice?
    Im curious to know how shes getting on whether she cured her problems

    Thanks
     
  20. swizzly

    swizzly New Member

    Joined:
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    Hi pamB, Sorry for answering a bit late, but I wasn't checking this site very often. My wife is still having some symptoms, mainly psychological ones, but they are somewhat easier to bear as previously. She visits a psychiatrist and gets prescribed antidepressants, maybe this is what helped her, but we are not sure. The psychiatrist told her, that the B5 or the imbalance of the vitamins could cause her depression and anxiety. It has been about 2-3 months that she takes the meds, some days are fine, but there are sometimes worse periods. The worse that no one knows for sure, what caused the problem, and how long will the recovery take.
    Apart the psychological problems, she still has hair loss, elevated pulse and some kind of blurry or strange vision. The coated tongue issues is gone thanks to drinking nettle tea every morning.

    Best regards,
    Swizzly
     
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