Parents For Helmets

Quoted message said:

When they are given the same tests as for motorcycle helmets, they
may, just may survive a 20mph crash with protection to the rear of the
skull and face.....

How many people have survived head injuries wearing those useless
`plastic` cycling helmets???.

Just to clarify, are you meaning that the cycle helmets may just survive
(i.e be of use) in a 20mph crash?

At first I thought you meant cyclists are unlikely to survive a fall at
20mph!

Peter Keller said:

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Kristian
Davies <[email hidden]!!.invalid> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

> Got it in one.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also remember a doctor friend of mine saying his colleagues referred to us
cyclists as 'organ donors' or some such...

Being a doctor doesn't make someone an expert on something outside their
field of expertise. Would you trust a doctor who said "this bridge is
safe" when a structural engineer had told you it was about to collapse?

I totally agree!!
Dr Peter Keller MB ChB, FANZCA who was vaguely in favour of helmets until
he made the mistake of actually reading about them and informing himself!

As a doctor myself, I've cycled without a helmet for the last nearly 70
years (admittedly with a 20-year gap in the middle) and have no wish to
be compelled to wear one now.

As with all such things, the statistical evidence is equivocal, with
many variables. There are some cases in which wearing a helmet would be
beneficial, and others in which it might be the reverse. It should be up
to the individual to make up his or her mind about where the balance
lies.

Anthony Campbell
--
Anthony Campbell - [email hidden]
Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
on-line books and sceptical articles)

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Like the Police's Christmas drink-drive campaign. The proportion of
those not involved in an accident who gave a positive sample was about
the same as the proportion of those who tested positive after being
involved in an accident. One might conclude that drink doesn't
increase your chances of having an 'accident'.

Have you got a reference for that?

http://www.herts.police.uk/FOI/Significant_Information/11_jan_06_drink_drive_results.pdf

--
Matt B

Tom Crispin said:

I guess I'm feeling demonised because I'm one of those people who compel
children to wear helemts.

Tom, no-one here is demonising you.
You are teaching children how to ride bikes - which is great.

You and your school choose to provide helmets for the children.
I don;t think there should be a problem.

My two pence worth is that maybe you should consider sending out a form to
each child, asking the parent to sign whether they want the child to use a
helmet or not. Parent signs yes, you make sure the child uses a helmet.
I don't think anyone in this group has an issue with parents providing, or
chosing cycle helmets for children.

davek said:

I'm sure you would agree that making sure your bike is roadworthy is far
more important than wearing a helmet, but clearly there are many parents
who don't know the first thing about bike maintenance and are happy to
send their kids out on death-traps. So why no campaign to educate parents
so they understand the need for routine bike maintenance?

I agree there. Having helped on a few "Dr Bikes" you see kids bikes in
absolutely appaling states, usually the cheap end BMX types with those
circulator units on the brakes, which enable the handlebars to spin round.
They usually fall apart tout suite, and the bike is left without brakes.
Yes, a campaign to raise parents awareness of their duties of care would
be good. Also to make people aware that bike shops can fix things!
(Except those useless cheapo BMXes which are made of cheese)

John Hearns said:

Tom, no-one here is demonising you.
You are teaching children how to ride bikes - which is great.

Oh yes, seconded, absolutely and unreservedly.

Personally, I consider this type of training infinitely more beneficial
than any helmet. If anything should be made compulsory, it is training.

d.

"Mark Thompson"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When they are given the same tests as for motorcycle helmets, they
may, just may survive a 20mph crash with protection to the rear of the
skull and face.....

How many people have survived head injuries wearing those useless
`plastic` cycling helmets???.

Just to clarify, are you meaning that the cycle helmets may just survive
(i.e be of use) in a 20mph crash?

Yes, if the same design as a motorcycle `crash helmet` and `safety tests`
are applied to cycle helmets,
that`s not say they will be fully protected as no-one is guaranteed to
survive even tripping over the pavement !!!! but they will be `better`
protected than the current design of `cycle` helmets give......

Quoted message said:

At first I thought you meant cyclists are unlikely to survive a fall at
20mph!

And then you re-read it ??

Lee....

Quoted message said:

http://www.herts.police.uk/FOI/Significant_Information/11_jan_06_drink_
drive_results.pdf

Only for 2003/4 - for later years those caught drink-crashing is 5.8% and
1.7%, while those caught drink driving is 11% and 10.8% Cripes!

Presumably the lower rates for those in accidents is due to higher
proportions being tested, whereas during the campaigns they only test if
they have or appear to have been drinking? S'pose so anyway, or we'd have
massive campaigns to get all drivers drunk at the wheel!

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:29:10 -0000, "Kristian Davies" <Post to
Newsgroup!!> said in <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

When I was a teenager, I didn't want to wear one because it was un-cool.
Now I wouldn't dream of not wearing one. Surely it's the minimum safety
precaution to take whether effective or not.

Especially when walking. Pedestrians have a higher proportion of head
injuries than cyclists, and there are many times more of them.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Tom Crispin twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

I also suspect that a jury would be more forgiving towards a teacher
if there was a fault with a bike that an unhelmeted child.

Quite possibly on the grounds that it's easy to see if a child is wearing
a helmet or not (though harder to see if it's being worn properly I'll
grant you), but bicycles are "machinery" and therefore "complicated"?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

David Martin said:

John B said:

Ian Smith said:

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 19:22:07 +0000, John B <[email hidden]>
wrote:
>
> It is interesting that Carlie Annetts is asking for examples of
> cycling accidents, by e-mailing her at:
> [email hidden]

Actually, she seems to be asking about accidents parents have
personal experience of while their children were not wearing
helmets.

Yes I miswrote my last post. In neither cases I quoted was my
daughter wearing a helmet - and in neither case would one have
helped.

Quoted message said:

I burnt my fingers in a coffee-roaster chamber earlier this week,
and neither of my daughters was wearing a helmet at the time.

I hope you've told her.

How about accidents when not wearing a helmet leading to children?

Accidents when not pinching your helmet leading to children?

IGMC and go and stand in the smutty corner.
--
Ambrose

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.herts.police.uk/FOI/Significant_Information/11_jan_06_drink_
drive_results.pdf

Only for 2003/4 - for later years those caught drink-crashing is 5.8%
and
1.7%, while those caught drink driving is 11% and 10.8% Cripes!

Presumably the lower rates for those in accidents is due to higher
proportions being tested, whereas during the campaigns they only test
if they have or appear to have been drinking? S'pose so anyway, or
we'd have massive campaigns to get all drivers drunk at the wheel!

You'd be wanting a roadblock style breathalyser campaign, not a "stop
suspicious people" one. I think the latter is what we use.

I have seen the former in Dublin, where the police were happy to pass me
with lighting that was well below legal standard. (I'd had to take a
pragmatic point of view on it, being on a borrowed bike, and I had
reflectives and was on very well lit wide roads.)
--
Ambrose

Simon Bennett said:

BigRab said:

Quoted message said:

I also remember a doctor friend of mine saying his colleagues
referred to us cyclists as 'organ donors' or some such...

Sorry, that usually refers to motorcyclists...... probably.

I know whose organs I'd rather have!

Mine are ready dosed with azathioprine (an anti rejection drug, among other
uses). Does that make them better or worse?

--
Ambrose

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

IGMC and go and stand in the smutty corner.

Does 'C' mean pbaqba?

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Simon Bennett said:

BigRab said:

> I also remember a doctor friend of mine saying his colleagues
> referred to us cyclists as 'organ donors' or some such...

Sorry, that usually refers to motorcyclists...... probably.

I know whose organs I'd rather have!

Quoted message said:

Mine are ready dosed with azathioprine (an anti rejection drug, among other
uses). Does that make them better or worse?

Probably ineligible. Can you give blood?

Auto-immune diseases often prevent eligibility as a donor.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Simon Bennett said:

BigRab said:

> I also remember a doctor friend of mine saying his colleagues
> referred to us cyclists as 'organ donors' or some such...

Sorry, that usually refers to motorcyclists...... probably.

I know whose organs I'd rather have!

Mine are ready dosed with azathioprine (an anti rejection drug, among
other uses). Does that make them better or worse?

Oh, I don't know. Does azathioprine have any good side-effects?

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

IGMC and go and stand in the smutty corner.

Does 'C' mean pbaqba?

No, pbaqbz.

(On another note, I've just found out how to make Bhgybbx Rkcerff decipher
ROT13 again. (Alt+Shift+H, then Alt+M, 3))
--
Ambrose

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Simon Bennett said:

BigRab wrote:

>> I also remember a doctor friend of mine saying his colleagues
>> referred to us cyclists as 'organ donors' or some such...
>
> Sorry, that usually refers to motorcyclists...... probably.

I know whose organs I'd rather have!

Quoted message said:

Mine are ready dosed with azathioprine (an anti rejection drug,
among other uses). Does that make them better or worse?

Probably ineligible. Can you give blood?

Almost certainly not.

Quoted message said:

Auto-immune diseases often prevent eligibility as a donor.

I imagine that is the case. No need to keep cycling now, if I don't need my
organs to be kept healthy for someone else 🙂
--
Ambrose

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:20:35 +0000 someone who may be Tom Crispin
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I guess I'm feeling demonised because I'm one of those people who
compel children to wear helemts.

You are being challenged. if you have a good case then you can put
it forward.

Quoted message said:

I simply want to highlight the case
for compulsion in certain circumstances.

You have yet to make any convincing case for such compulsion.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Simon Bennett said:

BigRab said:

Quoted message said:

I also remember a doctor friend of mine saying his colleagues
referred to us cyclists as 'organ donors' or some such...

Sorry, that usually refers to motorcyclists...... probably.

I know whose organs I'd rather have!

I think motorcyclists usually make better organ donors as they often
peg out with head and neck injuries. We OTOH are most commonly crushed
by large vehicles, which may not be good for our internal organs.

--
Dave...