Paula - 2:15:25 !

I watched her on TV courtesy of Eurosport with its inept Danish comentators (they didn't know the
story of the origin of the marathon distance, they thought that the old-fashioned diving suit's only
outing was in New York, they didn't "understand" any of the costumes (i.e. that many represented
charities, and the Samaritans telephone) and stated that this year's marathon didn't raise nay money
for charity. They didn't translate the splits into kilometres (Danes don't do English miles) and
practically the only thing they talked about - incessantly - was the prize money. They knew none of
the landmarks apart from Tower Bridge. They didn't know that there are three different starting
points; they indicated that the mass start for the "slow runners" (like me) was the only starting
line. They were bamboozled to see two wheel chair starts (men and women). They were generally more
interested in discussing the Paris marathon last week (which one of them had run). But even so - I
got to watch Paula! Jonathan "Tim Grose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One word "unbelievable"

Cheers Tim

Oh, I don't know.......several other words come to mind. Uninterested, unimportant,
underwhelming....

Tim Grose said:

One word "unbelievable"

add one more "steroids," so we end up with "unbelievable steroids"

And people complain about the rare coverage we get in the US...

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I watched her on TV courtesy of Eurosport with its inept Danish

comentators

Quoted message said:

(they didn't know the story of the origin of the marathon distance, they thought that the
old-fashioned diving suit's only outing was in New York, they didn't "understand" any of the
costumes (i.e. that many represented charities, and the Samaritans telephone) and stated that this
year's marathon didn't raise nay money for charity. They didn't translate the splits into
kilometres (Danes don't do English miles) and practically the only thing they talked about -
incessantly - was the prize money. They

knew

Quoted message said:

none of the landmarks apart from Tower Bridge. They didn't know that there are three different
starting points; they indicated that the mass start

for

Quoted message said:

the "slow runners" (like me) was the only starting line. They were bamboozled to see two wheel
chair starts (men and women). They were generally more interested in discussing the Paris marathon
last week

(which

Quoted message said:

one of them had run). But even so - I got to watch Paula! Jonathan "Tim Grose"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One word "unbelievable"

Cheers Tim

prfipwqu99 said:

Tim Grose said:

One word "unbelievable"

add one more "steroids," so we end up with "unbelievable steroids"

lol

Prfipwqu99 said:

Tim Grose said:

One word "unbelievable"

add one more "steroids," so we end up with "unbelievable steroids"

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs without some kind of training
revolution (i.e., the Chinese, or Geb and Komen--and EPO) you have to be suspicious. We know that
the Chinese were doing HGH, because their swim team was caught at customs trying to smuggle it into
Australia, but they were also doing crash training with very high mileage for females. In the case
of Paula, though, I'm not aware of anything particularly unique about her training (hard and high
volume, but how many Kenyan women run three times a day?).

Below are the top 20 times prior to Paula's latest. Note that it took more than a decade to break
Ingrid Kristriansen's record and then 3 years to break
2:20......And then the flood gates opened, and 3 of the presently 6 fastest times are by one person.
Compare with the pregression in, say, the women's 800 or 400 (which the Chinese didn't
contest). Compare with what happened when Lydiard came around, or Aouita (where there were
legitimate advances in training).

Guilty as charged.

All-Time Marathon List - World Women

The top 20 performances and top 50 performers Paula Radcliffe (GBR) 2:17:18 (1) Chicago 13Oct02
Catherine Ndereba (KEN) 2:18:47 (1) Chicago 07Oct01 Radcliffe 2:18:56 (1) London 14Apr02 Ndereba
2:19:26 (2) Chicago 13Oct02 Naoko Takahashi (JPN) 2:19:46 (1) Berlin 30Sep01 Wei Yanan (CHN) 2:20:23
(1) Beijing 20Oct02 Tegla Loroupe (KEN) 2:20:43 (1) Berlin 26Sep99 Margaret Okayo (KEN) 2:20:43 (1)
Boston 15Apr02 Loroupe 2:20:47 (1) Rotterdam 19Apr98 Ingrid Kristiansen (NOR) 2:21:06 (1) London
21Apr85 Ndereba 2:21:12 (2) Boston 15Apr02 Mizuki Noguchi (JPN) 2:21:18 (1) Osaka 26Jan03 Joan
Benoit (USA) 2:21:21 (1) Chicago 20Oct85 Sun Yingjie (CHN) 2:21:21 (2) Beijing 20Oct02
[3] Yoko Shibui (JPN) 2:21:22 (3) Chicago 13Oct02 Svetlana Zakharova (RUS) 2:21:31 (4) Chicago
13Oct02 Ndereba 2:21:33 (1) Chicago 22Oct00 Uta Pippig (GER) 2:21:45 (1) Boston 18Apr94 Masako
Chiba (JPN) 2:21:45 (2) Osaka 26Jan03 Takahashi 2:21:47 (1) Bangkok 06Dec98 -- 20 performances
by 14 performers -- Naoko Sakamoto (JPN) 2:21:51 (3) Osaka 26Jan03 Eri Yamaguchi (JPN) 2:22:12
(1) Tokyo 21Nov99 Gete Wami (ETH) 2:22:19 (1) Amsterdam 20Oct02 Lornah Kiplagat (KEN) 2:22:22
(4) Osaka 26Jan03 Catherina McKiernan (IRL) 2:22:23 (1) Amsterdam 01Nov98 Lydumila Petrova
(RUS) 2:22:32 (3) London 14Apr02

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

"Tim Grose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One word "unbelievable"

Cheers Tim

Couldn't agree more Tim, it was such a fantastic run. I've been a fan of Paula's for some time, now
I am awestruck with her abilities.

I must admit, I have not posted in this group for quite some time. Is it full of Trolls? The
sarcastic remarks from others on here astounds me. Her success comes from hard work (and good sleep)
and it has taken her more than 10 year to get to her current physical level. Doubters should visit
news.bbc.co.uk2939525.stmOpen ↗ and
news.bbc.co.uk1483621.stmOpen ↗ before they make
judgements regarding steroid abuse.

ShaneC

"Lyndon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs

without

Quoted message said:

some kind of training revolution (i.e., the Chinese, or Geb and Komen--and

EPO)

Quoted message said:

you have to be suspicious.

I know what you're saying, but you have to remember that Radcliffe hasn't just said she's
'anti-drug', she's led a veritable crusade against them. This suggests she's either onto something
that really is undetectable, or she's not on drugs. Whilst I'd like to believe the it's the latter,
I'd have to agree that her apparent inability to perform well at 10,000m - yet to decimate a field
at the marathon - is somewhat strange, given that 10k and marathon ability have a high correlation.
It's simply another reason that our sport sucks at the highest levels. Even if she really is an
outstanding marathoner, few will believe she's achieved it without assistance. See where being soft
on drugs has got us?

Roger.

Given that Radcliffe has taken such a public stand against drug use, given that she has publicly
singled out drug cheats (remember it was she who held up the sign "EPO cheats out!" at the Edmonton
games 2 years ago), and given that she has allowed, even insisted, on random drug testing on
herself, I'd say your accusations are completely groundless.

In (Lyndon) said:

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs without some kind of training
revolution (i.e., the Chinese, or Geb and Komen--and EPO) you have to be suspicious. We know that
the Chinese were doing HGH, because

.....

Quoted message said:

Guilty as charged.

(Lyndon) said:

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs without some kind of training
revolution

You've been closely following her training have you? Explain it to us?

Quoted message said:

Guilty as charged.

Shoot first, ask question later and who gives a [censored] about evidence. Hang the [censored], burn the witch.
Right on. What a country :-/

I don't believe Paula Radcliffe would require illegal drugs to perform so well. I watched her run
track races and shorter road races she had heaps of guts but seemed to loose it in the closing
stages. That ever increasing head bobbing tipped off others she was beginning to suffer. They would
blow by her and she would fade. The marathon seems to agree with her. There is a piece of video of
her finishing on the BBC website.
news.bbc.co.uk2943913.stmOpen ↗ They say she was training
in Albuquerque.

Lyndon I have always found your posts interesting and informed. Sadly this was not one such one.

The sadest thing of all is even people like you now think that any improvement in an athlete must be
unnatural.

I don't know her personally (although did go for a run with her once many years ago) but from what I
have heard she has certainly defined a new way of approaching training. A few years ago she used to
race very frequently. Now she does not.

It seems her life is totally devoted to training spending most of the year at her training base and
reportedly running 140 miles a week but getting more than 12 hours a sleep and at certain times of
the year having Gerald Hartmann on hand to cater for every massage/treatment need.

She has hardly come from nowhere - World Junior XC Champ in 1992 and more or less each year since
then has set pbs.

By your logic everybody who have ever smashed a world record must be on something.

Cheers Tim Grose

"Lyndon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Prfipwqu99 said:

Tim Grose said:

One word "unbelievable"

add one more "steroids," so we end up with "unbelievable steroids"

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs

without

Quoted message said:

some kind of training revolution (i.e., the Chinese, or Geb and Komen--and

EPO)

Quoted message said:

you have to be suspicious. We know that the Chinese were doing HGH,

because

Quoted message said:

their swim team was caught at customs trying to smuggle it into Australia,

but

Quoted message said:

they were also doing crash training with very high mileage for females.

In the

Quoted message said:

case of Paula, though, I'm not aware of anything particularly unique about

her

Quoted message said:

training (hard and high volume, but how many Kenyan women run three times

a

Quoted message said:

day?).

Below are the top 20 times prior to Paula's latest. Note that it took

more

Quoted message said:

than a decade to break Ingrid Kristriansen's record and then 3 years to

break

Quoted message said:

2:20......And then the flood gates opened, and 3 of the presently 6

fastest

Quoted message said:

times are by one person. Compare with the pregression in, say, the

women's 800

Quoted message said:

or 400 (which the Chinese didn't contest). Compare with what happened

when

Quoted message said:

Lydiard came around, or Aouita (where there were legitimate advances in training).

Guilty as charged.

All-Time Marathon List - World Women

The top 20 performances and top 50 performers Paula Radcliffe (GBR) 2:17:18 (1) Chicago 13Oct02
Catherine Ndereba (KEN) 2:18:47 (1) Chicago 07Oct01 Radcliffe 2:18:56 (1) London 14Apr02 Ndereba
2:19:26 (2) Chicago 13Oct02 Naoko Takahashi (JPN) 2:19:46 (1) Berlin 30Sep01 Wei Yanan (CHN)
2:20:23 (1) Beijing 20Oct02 Tegla Loroupe (KEN) 2:20:43 (1) Berlin 26Sep99 Margaret Okayo (KEN)
2:20:43 (1) Boston 15Apr02 Loroupe 2:20:47 (1) Rotterdam 19Apr98 Ingrid Kristiansen (NOR)
2:21:06 (1) London 21Apr85 Ndereba 2:21:12 (2) Boston 15Apr02 Mizuki Noguchi (JPN) 2:21:18 (1)
Osaka 26Jan03 Joan Benoit (USA) 2:21:21 (1) Chicago 20Oct85 Sun Yingjie (CHN) 2:21:21 (2)
Beijing 20Oct02
[10]Yoko Shibui (JPN) 2:21:22 (3) Chicago 13Oct02 Svetlana Zakharova (RUS) 2:21:31 (4) Chicago
13Oct02 Ndereba 2:21:33 (1) Chicago 22Oct00 Uta Pippig (GER) 2:21:45 (1) Boston 18Apr94 Masako
Chiba (JPN) 2:21:45 (2) Osaka 26Jan03 Takahashi 2:21:47 (1) Bangkok 06Dec98 -- 20 performances
by 14 performers -- Naoko Sakamoto (JPN) 2:21:51 (3) Osaka 26Jan03 Eri Yamaguchi (JPN) 2:22:12
(1) Tokyo 21Nov99 Gete Wami (ETH) 2:22:19 (1) Amsterdam 20Oct02 Lornah Kiplagat (KEN) 2:22:22
(4) Osaka 26Jan03 Catherina McKiernan (IRL) 2:22:23 (1) Amsterdam 01Nov98 Lydumila Petrova
(RUS) 2:22:32 (3) London 14Apr02

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track

Coach

Quoted message said:

Brooks Johnson

Uninterested,

Quoted message said:

unimportant, underwhelming....

Sounds like what people think of your posts

What utter rubbish. Let's look at your data.

Are you saying Ndereba was on drugs when she improved from 2:21:33 (Chicago, October 2000) to
2:18:47 (Chicago, October 2002)?? Just as much an improvement as Paula's.

Of course Deena Drossin, who improved her marathon time in London by 5 minutes (2:26:53 in 2002) is
naturally squeeky clean!! That sort of improvement is much more likely to be "drug-induced".

Radcliffe has run 3 marathons and has improved her time by 3 minutes so she must be using an
undetectable drug!! Gimme a break!

What is wrong with you people? All these women have great talent and a huge work effort, and we are
seeing improvements in training methods that are working.

Let's see the American athletics federation come clean about US athletes and drug use.

Dave

Lyndon said:

Prfipwqu99 said:

Tim Grose said:

One word "unbelievable"

add one more "steroids," so we end up with "unbelievable steroids"

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs without some kind of training
revolution (i.e., the Chinese, or Geb and Komen--and EPO) you have to be suspicious. We know that
the Chinese were doing HGH, because their swim team was caught at customs trying to smuggle it
into Australia, but they were also doing crash training with very high mileage for females. In the
case of Paula, though, I'm not aware of anything particularly unique about her training (hard and
high volume, but how many Kenyan women run three times a day?).

Below are the top 20 times prior to Paula's latest. Note that it took more than a decade to break
Ingrid Kristriansen's record and then 3 years to break
2:20......And then the flood gates opened, and 3 of the presently 6 fastest times are by one
person. Compare with the pregression in, say, the women's 800 or 400 (which the Chinese
didn't contest). Compare with what happened when Lydiard came around, or Aouita (where there
were legitimate advances in training).

Guilty as charged.

All-Time Marathon List - World Women

The top 20 performances and top 50 performers Paula Radcliffe (GBR) 2:17:18 (1) Chicago 13Oct02
Catherine Ndereba (KEN) 2:18:47 (1) Chicago 07Oct01 Radcliffe 2:18:56 (1) London 14Apr02 Ndereba
2:19:26 (2) Chicago 13Oct02 Naoko Takahashi (JPN) 2:19:46 (1) Berlin 30Sep01 Wei Yanan (CHN)
2:20:23 (1) Beijing 20Oct02 Tegla Loroupe (KEN) 2:20:43 (1) Berlin 26Sep99 Margaret Okayo (KEN)
2:20:43 (1) Boston 15Apr02 Loroupe 2:20:47 (1) Rotterdam 19Apr98 Ingrid Kristiansen (NOR)
2:21:06 (1) London 21Apr85 Ndereba 2:21:12 (2) Boston 15Apr02 Mizuki Noguchi (JPN) 2:21:18 (1)
Osaka 26Jan03 Joan Benoit (USA) 2:21:21 (1) Chicago 20Oct85 Sun Yingjie (CHN) 2:21:21 (2)
Beijing 20Oct02
[10]Yoko Shibui (JPN) 2:21:22 (3) Chicago 13Oct02 Svetlana Zakharova (RUS) 2:21:31 (4) Chicago
13Oct02 Ndereba 2:21:33 (1) Chicago 22Oct00 Uta Pippig (GER) 2:21:45 (1) Boston 18Apr94 Masako
Chiba (JPN) 2:21:45 (2) Osaka 26Jan03 Takahashi 2:21:47 (1) Bangkok 06Dec98 -- 20 performances
by 14 performers -- Naoko Sakamoto (JPN) 2:21:51 (3) Osaka 26Jan03 Eri Yamaguchi (JPN) 2:22:12
(1) Tokyo 21Nov99 Gete Wami (ETH) 2:22:19 (1) Amsterdam 20Oct02 Lornah Kiplagat (KEN) 2:22:22
(4) Osaka 26Jan03 Catherina McKiernan (IRL) 2:22:23 (1) Amsterdam 01Nov98 Lydumila Petrova
(RUS) 2:22:32 (3) London 14Apr02

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

She broke the world 10k road record earlier this year. Inability? J "Roger Hunter"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Lyndon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs

without

Quoted message said:

some kind of training revolution (i.e., the Chinese, or Geb and

Komen--and

Quoted message said:

EPO)

Quoted message said:

you have to be suspicious.

I know what you're saying, but you have to remember that Radcliffe hasn't just said she's
'anti-drug', she's led a veritable crusade against them. This suggests she's either onto something
that really is undetectable, or she's not on drugs. Whilst I'd like to believe the it's the
latter, I'd have to agree that her apparent inability to perform well at 10,000m - yet to decimate
a field at the marathon - is somewhat strange, given that 10k and marathon ability have a high
correlation. It's simply another reason that our sport sucks at the highest levels. Even if she
really is an outstanding marathoner, few will believe she's achieved it without assistance. See
where being soft on drugs has got us?

Roger.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't believe it either. Whenever you see rapid progression in WRs

without

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some kind of training revolution

You've been closely following her training have you? Explain it to us?

Quoted message said:

Guilty as charged.

Shoot first, ask question later and who gives a [censored] about evidence. Hang the [censored], burn the
witch. Right on. What a country :-/

Absobloodylutely right. Anyone having even a passing interest in athletics would know that she is
about the least likely competitor in today's event to have done so with any kind of performance
enhancing drug. She's just the best. By a long way. And she's British. Suck it up.

She has always had ability but not the fast finish for a tactical race. It's obvious she and her
husband have had to have a rethink and decided that trying to run people into the ground is the way
to go.No messing about just run flat out from gun to tape, it seems to work!

Steve

"Tim Grose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lyndon I have always found your posts interesting and informed. Sadly this was

not

Quoted message said:

one such one.

The sadest thing of all is even people like you now think that any improvement in an athlete must
be unnatural.

I don't know her personally (although did go for a run with her once many years ago) but from what
I have heard she has certainly defined a new way

of

Quoted message said:

approaching training. A few years ago she used to race very frequently.

Now

Quoted message said:

she does not.

It seems her life is totally devoted to training spending most of the year at her training base
and reportedly running 140 miles a week but getting more than 12 hours a sleep and at certain
times of the year having Gerald Hartmann on hand to cater for every massage/treatment need.

She has hardly come from nowhere - World Junior XC Champ in 1992 and more

or

Quoted message said:

less each year since then has set pbs.

By your logic everybody who have ever smashed a world record must be on something.

Spot on. Why do we have to suspect someone as a cheat when they have put in so much effort and
have clearly not "come from nowhere". She was always a talented runner, perhaps it has been the
self belief which came from her first victories that has snowballed into her simply getting better
and better. Surely another reason for her impressive performance today was that she was being
paced by men.

"Jonathan Sydenham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

She broke the world 10k road record earlier this year. Inability?

I shouldn't have to draw the dots for you Jonathan, but if you insist. I was referring to her track
performances prior to her marathon 'breakthrough'.

Roger.