Pavement Cycling

Tony Raven said:

In "]news:[email hidden], AndyMorris <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Pedestrians (mis)perception of pavement cyclists is partly down the surprise they feel after
being passed by a cyclist. The cyclist is in control of the bike, can estimate the speed and
position of the ped and can pass fairly closely with very low risk, as born out by the stats.

However the ped feels that the cyclist is barely in control (because the ped was last time they
were on a bike) and experiences a heart stopping fright as the cyclist appears from nowhere,
passes very close and then shoots off at speed

You can substitute "cyclists" for "pedestrians" and "drivers" for "cyclists" and "car" for "bike"
in the above and it remains equally valid.

So I did

Cyclists (mis)perception of drivers is partly down the surprise they feel after being passed by a
driver. The driver is in control of the car, can estimate the speed and position of the bike and can
pass fairly closely with very low risk, as born out by the stats.

However the cyclist feels that the driver is barely in control (because the cyclist was last time
they were in a car) and experiences a heart stopping fright as the driver appears from nowhere,
passes very close and then shoots off at speed.

And its not really valid.

Cyclist are very rarely surprised by cars, we deal with them all the time, many drivers have little
idea of the speed cyclist may be going at, or of the width of their own vehicles. The stats show
that they do kill a fair number of cyclist, but no as many as the 'its to scary to cycle' mind set
would suggest.

Cyclists have good reason to think that the driver may not be in control, mobile phones, [censored], maps,
kids can all distract. The motorist may not even be aware of the cyclist.

I guess I was trying to suggest that cyclists using (official or unofficial) shared use facilities
should be aware that pedestrians will percive the situation differently and ajust thier speed
accordingly.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

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you know? said:

Nathaniel Porter said:

Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous, unnecessary and is against the law. It is
that simple.

Except when misguided councils paint a picture of a bicycle on the footway (which is the closest
most of them have apparently come to a real bicycle). Or where the rider is a child.

SNIP

Really? AIUI, it's illegal for any cyclist to ride on the pavement; regardless of age.

Nathaniel Porter said:

Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous, unnecessary and is against the law. It is
that simple.

No it isn't. In Tokyo, for example, almost everyone cycles on the pavement, and it isn't dangerous,
because the cyclists are polite and courteous towards the pedestrians, only using small speed
differentials when overtaking, etc.. People of all ages and social classes cycle on the pavements.
Bank managers and lawyers cycle to work on the pavements, housewives do their shopping cycling on
the pavements. And nearly all of them cycle on -- wait for it -- utility bicycles designed for easy
convenient comfortable commuting and shopping. They cycle across roads using pedestrian crossings.
At lunch time you will sometimes see some cyclists cycling on the crowded pavements one-handed,
while carrying on top of the other upraised hand a tray with a prepared covered lunch they're
delivering.

There's nothing inherently dangerous or wrong about pavement cycling per se. We (UK) have a problem
with a significant number of rude inconsiderate pavement cyclists which we've chosen to solve by
banning pavement cycling.

Now, if we applied the same logic to the problem of rude inconsiderate car drivers on the roads...

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 650 3085 School of Artificial Intelligence, Division of
Informatics Edinburgh University, 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK
[dai.ed.ac.ukcamOpen ↗ ] DoD #205

you know? said:

These restrictions don't work at all as traffic calming measures unless they are so narrow that a
bus can't get through them - God knows why councils persist in doing this.

The only solution is to adopt the primary riding position - or "take the lane" as our American
cousins put it.

These pinch points are absolute death traps for cyclists. Do not give motorists a chance to get
alongside you at one. They'd rather hit you than slow down for a moment.

--
Dave...

(Chris Malcolm) said:

Quoted message said:

Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous, unnecessary and is against the law. It is
that simple.

No it isn't. In Tokyo, for example, almost everyone cycles on the pavement, and it isn't dangerous,
because the cyclists are polite and courteous towards the pedestrians, only using small speed
differentials when overtaking, etc.. People of all ages and social classes cycle on the pavements.

Is it not compulsory in Tokyo? I have heard that bikes are not allowed to use the road there.

--
Dave...

C'mon Eddy, tell us what you *really* think...

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"[Not Responding]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

you know? said:

Nathaniel Porter said:

Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous, unnecessary and is against the law. It is
that simple.

Except when misguided councils paint a picture of a bicycle on the footway (which is the closest
most of them have apparently come to a real bicycle). Or where the rider is a child.

SNIP

Really? AIUI, it's illegal for any cyclist to ride on the pavement; regardless of age.

Really? My 4 year old daughter on her 14in wheeled bike is supposed to to mix it with trucks, busses
and all those car drivers? Then the law is an ass.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "Rory" == Rory <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

"[Not Responding]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

you know? said:

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:11:37 +0100, "Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous,

unnecessary and is >>against the law. It is that simple.

Quoted message said:

Except when misguided councils paint a picture of a bicycle on

the >footway (which is the closest most of them have apparently come to a >real bicycle). Or
where the rider is a child.

Quoted message said:

SNIP

Really? AIUI, it's illegal for any cyclist to ride on the pavement; regardless of age.

Quoted message said:

Really? My 4 year old daughter on her 14in wheeled bike is supposed to to mix it with trucks,
busses and all those car drivers? Then the law is an ass.

Well... technically it is an offence for anyone to ride on the pavement. OTOH the courts are
typically not interested in attempts to prosecute those deemed not to be criminally responsible.
Whilst there is no hard and fast age limit for this; 10 years old is a reasonable guide line AIUI.

Dave Kahn said:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 07:34:13 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous, unnecessary and is against the law. It is
that simple.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No it isn't. In Tokyo, for example, almost everyone cycles on the pavement, and it isn't
dangerous, because the cyclists are polite and courteous towards the pedestrians, only using small
speed differentials when overtaking, etc.. People of all ages and social classes cycle on the
pavements.

Quoted message said:

Is it not compulsory in Tokyo? I have heard that bikes are not allowed to use the road there.

They are allowed to use the road as well, but few do. I noted that the police cyclists, who use
white bicycles equipped with radios etc., seemed always to use the road, never the pavement. But
that might have been because their natural prey was the misbehaving car driver.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 650 3085 School of Artificial Intelligence, Division of
Informatics Edinburgh University, 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK
[dai.ed.ac.ukcamOpen ↗ ] DoD #205

"Nathaniel Porter" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Pavement cycling is like speeding. It is dangerous, unnecessary and is against the law. It is
that simple.

Obviously more resources need to be put into preventing more dangerous breaches of traffic law,
but that does not and cannot justify pavement cycling.

It's not that simple. There are pavements and there are pavements. To combine two threads into one
there's a bit of pavement I regularly ride on because there's never anyone on it and if I stayed in
the narrowish twisty road it would mean the less considerate car drivers trying to squeeze through
an uncomfortably narrow gap against oncoming traffic and the more considerate car drivers, buses and
lorries being held up behind me. A while ago while I was on this pavement feeling happy about
helping my fellow inhabitants of this overcrowded planet I realised traffic wasn't flowing past and
was being held up by a couple of cyclists 2-abreast. As I watched, one car swerved it's way past
causing shouts by the cyclists and blaring horn from the car coming in the opposite direction.

There are always going to be road users like that so in my book safety, common sense and
consideration beat the law any day. Think about it people.