Pavement cyclists

On 11 Jun 2004 20:58:35 GMT, Andy Leighton <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Make the pavement shared use - cyclists hate using them.

Andy Leighton <[email hidden]> wrote:

<Snipped Text>

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Slotted manhole covers?

--
Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1, (Ex-OSOS#5) - FJ1200 ABS
Honda Concerto 16v: Windows free zone (Mac G5 Dual Processor)
http://www.thehewitts.plus.com - now online

In news:[email hidden],
Andy Leighton <[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously:
What is the

Quoted message said:

best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Cobbles.
--

Martin Bulmer

Pie Conservation Threat

Walk in the road?

"Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning (to go and
see the cricket) and was passing over town bridge in Peterborough.
As I got half way across I noticed a couple of women walking to my
left and a cycle coming up from behind. So I matched pace with the
other walkers and we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then you wouldn't
have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers also grumbled their

agreement

Quoted message said:

but let the woman through.

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

"Well why ride on the pavement then?"

"Because there isn't a cycle-path" as she surges forward.

"Well get off and push" I shout at her back as she gets out of

conversation

Quoted message said:

distance.

This is no isolated case and in this case she was going at six or seven
mph. Some people whizz across at about 12 mph on the pavement.

There is a police station more or less at one end of the bridge (on
Bridge Street would you believe) but no visible policing of pavement
cycling (that I have seen).

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Get the council to paint a little picture of a cycle, and a little
picture of people walking on the pavement surface complete with nice
signs and advertising campaign.

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Pavement-cyclist-cameras, with mugshots of the worst offenders in the
newspaper each week.

These will work by looking for the distinctive radar signature of
moving bicycle wheels.

Offenders will switch to spokeless racing wheels to avoid detection, at
which point they will discover they can't kerb hop any more anyway, and
they will be forced to ride on the roads.

AC

Martin Bulmer said:

In news:[email hidden],
Andy Leighton <[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously:
What is the

Quoted message said:

best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Cobbles.

Bollocks to you too.

Andy Leighton said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning (to go and
see the cricket) and was passing over town bridge in Peterborough.
As I got half way across I noticed a couple of women walking to my
left and a cycle coming up from behind. So I matched pace with the
other walkers and we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then you wouldn't
have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers also grumbled their agreement
but let the woman through.

I normally say something along the lines of "don't your parents let you
ride on the road yet", especially if they look well over 20

Quoted message said:

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

"Well why ride on the pavement then?"

"Because there isn't a cycle-path" as she surges forward.

"Well get off and push" I shout at her back as she gets out of conversation
distance.

This is no isolated case and in this case she was going at six or seven
mph. Some people whizz across at about 12 mph on the pavement.

There is a police station more or less at one end of the bridge (on
Bridge Street would you believe) but no visible policing of pavement
cycling (that I have seen).

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

"Andy Leighton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning (to go and
see the cricket) and was passing over town bridge in Peterborough.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Prove to 'em that it is more dangerous riding on the pavement than riding on
the road and beat the [censored] out of 'em with a baseball bat every time you
encounter them ;-)

Dave.

-alternately throw a newspaper boy/girl in their path when they're not
looking (see my previous post)

Andy Leighton said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning (to go and
see the cricket) and was passing over town bridge in Peterborough.
As I got half way across I noticed a couple of women walking to my
left and a cycle coming up from behind. So I matched pace with the
other walkers and we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then you wouldn't
have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers also grumbled their agreement
but let the woman through.

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

"Well why ride on the pavement then?"

"Because there isn't a cycle-path" as she surges forward.

"Well get off and push" I shout at her back as she gets out of conversation
distance.

This is no isolated case and in this case she was going at six or seven
mph. Some people whizz across at about 12 mph on the pavement.

There is a police station more or less at one end of the bridge (on
Bridge Street would you believe) but no visible policing of pavement
cycling (that I have seen).

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of
the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Make the roads less dangerous?

Reply to Pete whelan

Quoted message said:

I normally say something along the lines of "don't your parents let you
ride on the road yet", especially if they look well over 20

Ha! [promptly steals for own use...]

--
Mark, UK.
We hope to hear him swear, we love to hear him squeak,
We like to see him biting fingers in his horny beak.

Andy Leighton said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

More humiliation of pavement cyclists. Mine is "Push it!", but it's a bit
[censored] and I might start using Pete Whelan's (see above).

"jamie g" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Leighton said:

Quoted message said:

There have been letters to the local paper but I doubt that most of

the offenders read it and the rest ignore the letters. What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Make the roads less dangerous?

Less dangerous than what?
A car may hit you whilst you cycle on the road, it may also mount the
pavement and hit you whilst you cycle on it,
this isn't a throwaway remark, I regularly read of peds hit by cars mounting
the pavement.
You will still have to negotiate the same junctions whether cycling on the
road or pavement. Should negotiating a roundabout or making a right turn
seem daunting then get off and cross as you would if a ped.

When you approach a junction as a cyclist on the road priorities, in the
main, are clear to you and other road users. If you approach the same
junction as a pavement cyclist the situation is more ambiguous and this may
make other road users show extra caution toward you or OTOH they may not
expect a bicycle to drop off the kerb in front of them if sight lines are
more restricted for the pavement than road, this isn't so much of a problem
for peds with their lower speeds.

If you are going to cycle slowly on the pavement what's the point?
--
Regards,
Pete

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:53:10 +0000 (UTC), "Peter B"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

A car may hit you whilst you cycle on the road, it may also mount the
pavement and hit you whilst you cycle on it,
this isn't a throwaway remark, I regularly read of peds hit by cars mounting
the pavement.

ISTR about 60-70 people killed per year by motor vehicles on the
footway, same again on ped crossings.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Simonb said:

Andy Leighton said:

What is the best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

More humiliation of pavement cyclists. Mine is "Push it!", but it's a bit
[censored] and I might start using Pete Whelan's (see above).

I usually stand in the way; making them join the road of cycle v.
slowly. Head down looking at phone usually avoids confrontation but
I'm happy to enter debate on use of pavements if required.

Quoted message said:

What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Easy,

You have to be tough on the causes of pavement cycling, not just
address the 'problem' of pavement cycling itself.

Run a national awareness campaign highlighting that cycles are
vehicles and have at least as much right to use the roads as car
drivers: quite possibly more seeing that the use of the public road
for cycling (and walking) is a legal right, not a privilege controlled
through licence.

Start banning driviers who fail to acknowledge the rights of cyclists
to use the public road and drive without due consideration, even when
injury or death does not result.

Follow this up with a 'zero tolerance' campaign for those drivers who
intimidate cyclists off the roads by speeding, overtaking too closely,
overtaking cyclists then turning left across their paths, failing to
give way at junctions and roundabouts, etc., etc. Apart from making
cyclists much more confident to use the roads this will also help to
undermine the general lack of respect for the law that is so evident
in this country, an attitude so evident in the behaviour of motor
vehicle users.

Next, reduce urban speed limits to a level where all those 'errors'
made by drivers will not lead to death and injury. You seem to think
12 MPH is recklessly fast for a cyclist, so shall we say lets
introduce a universal urban limit of 10 MPH and 20 MPH on rural lanes?

We should also get rid of all those stupid 'cycle paths' along side
roads as these give the message that the cyclist can only be 'safe' if
they ride on the pavement, albeit a pavement with a sign up calling
it a 'cycle path.'

Then again we could just accept that 'pavement cycling' is not much of
a 'problem' in any case. Each year under 60 people are injured by
'pavement cyclists' and genuinely serious injuries and deaths almost
unknown. In comparison around 40 people a year are killed and another
3500 injured by car drivers whilst they walk on a footway and another
80 killed and 4300 injured by car drivers whilst they use a pedestrian
crossing. (Highway Code advice 'always slow down and be prepared to
stop).

We might also like to address the problem of pedestrians who step into
the highway without looking and collide with cyclists. This causes 3
times more injures then does 'pavement cycling' and accounts for most
cycle/pedestrian collision deaths, usually running at 2-3 pedestrians
and another 2-3 cyclists per year.

Perhaps someone could also run course for arrogant pedestrians in
courtesy and common sense when encountering cyclists politely asking
to pass on a ‘footpath'. Unfortunately, far to many ‘pedestrians'
(often just car drivers who have found somewhere to leave their car)
take the hostility they display towards cyclists when driving onto
shared use paths, bridleways and so on going out of their way to be
confrontational and obstructive. Still that's the British for you...

jamie g said:

Andy Leighton said:

I was walking to the train station at 0730 this morning (to go and
see the cricket) and was passing over town bridge in Peterborough.
As I got half way across I noticed a couple of women walking to my
left and a cycle coming up from behind. So I matched pace with the
other walkers and we walked three abreast.

"Excuse me" an indignant middle-aged female voice comes from behind me.

"If you were on the road like you are supposed to be then you wouldn't
have a problem" I replied. My fellow walkers also grumbled their agreement
but let the woman through.

"It is too dangerous" she said as she pushed through.

Make the roads less dangerous?

Firstly many people will tell you that it is generally less dangerous
on the road than the pavement. Also I think it is well accepted that
it is much less dangerous than it is perceived.

In point of fact this particular road is quite safe during the day
(at night you do get some mad speeders). At 0730 there was very
low traffic density - no more than about five vehicles on the
road over the bridge.

With bike-week almost upon us, I feel it is important to stress
to returning and new riders how to ride their bikes properly, and
to show the road isn't as dangerous as they think. Basically get
them off the pavements and onto the roads.

Personally I would think that it would be a good thing for local
councils to fund adult (and child) bike education - which as well
as helping with petty law-breaking such as this might also give more
people the confidence to get out on their bike.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton said:

What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Why does it matter? Of all the problems to get worked up about, pavement
cyclists should rank very low on the list.

What is the best approach to try to reduce the number of pedestrians
killed by motor vehicles on the pavement (or even off the pavement, they
are just as dead)?

James

Howard said:

Quoted message said:

What is the
best approach to try and reduce pavement cycling?

Easy,

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Next, reduce urban speed limits to a level where all those 'errors'
made by drivers will not lead to death and injury. You seem to think
12 MPH is recklessly fast for a cyclist,

On a pavement, yes - especially a pavement where there are children and
babies in buggies etc. On the road 12 mph is not recklessly fast, even
I averaged at least that when I used to commute to work (I now work at
home and cycle commuting the 5 yards from my bedroom to my office is
impractical).

Quoted message said:

Then again we could just accept that 'pavement cycling' is not much of
a 'problem' in any case. Each year under 60 people are injured by
'pavement cyclists' and genuinely serious injuries and deaths almost
unknown.

Depends by what you mean a 'problem'. Obviously it isn't that serious
when you look at injury figures - and that was not the basis on which
I am against it. Pavement cycling is just another example of anti-
social behaviour. Same as graffiti, pissing in the street, and public
drunkeness.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps someone could also run course for arrogant pedestrians in
courtesy and common sense when encountering cyclists politely asking
to pass on a 'footpath'.

If people showed common sense, courtesy and respect for the law by
riding their bike in the road or pushing the bike along the footway
then I am more than willing to show some courtesy back.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, far to many 'pedestrians' (often just car drivers who
have found somewhere to leave their car) take the hostility they
display towards cyclists when driving onto shared use paths, bridleways
and so on going out of their way to be confrontational and obstructive.

I have no problems with people on bikes on shared use paths, bridleways
etc. Even those shared use paths which are very poorly designed - where
I have to step out into the bike bit from time to time due to street
furniture (or where the bikes have to go in the pedestrian bit for the
same reason). I think I have previously posted that I do not drive,
do not have a license, and I have never driven. I use feet, bike, bus
and train to get about.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_