pealling push up push down

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by n crowley [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

This is in his book where Hinault was referring to riding on level roads, what else could he say when he did not know the secret of how to combine arm resistance with leg muscles for increased power output in time trials. You believe Pruitt is an expert on pedaling biomechanics, in his latest book his pedaling section is nothing more than a rehash of the same information to be found in Burke's book ' Science of Cycling'.

Hinault was a time trialing God. Didn't know what to do... pah! God on wheels. Does this look like a man who has no clue? He's in the freaking small sprocket going uphill.

That is the only lesson you need on how to get the 12 sprocket around on a bike without tri-bars. Foobar arm resistance...

No, I believe that Pruitt has some good info on positioning...

But back to pushing up and down - after using last year as a control year back on fixed cranks it was just a "so, so" year. I weighed less and went uphill slower. I put out less power yet, thanks to the wonders of Cannondales' Hi-Mod frame, my back hurt less. Uber comfort despite much stiffness out of the saddle. Those "fixed cranks" - Cannondales very light, very stiff, very expensive and I'm glad they came with the bike cause they cost as much as PowerCranks, Si Hollowgrams. I think they weigh less than the allen key that you have to use to take them off... yet they manage to be stiffer than structural steel. Only because I had 4 weeks devoted to short intervals did I manage to top one "best" in the power stakes - 1 minute power - but by a whopping 10 watts.

So "control year" number 2. Back to the same (or very similar) indoors during the week and outdoors at the weekend - except this year on PC's again. Tongue in cheek goal for the year - learn how to ride out of the saddle with PCs. How many years I have had these and my heiney is still glued to the saddle? LOL

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Quote: Originally Posted by n crowley [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

This is in his book where Hinault was referring to riding on level roads, what else could he say when he did not know the secret of how to combine arm resistance with leg muscles for increased power output in time trials. You believe Pruitt is an expert on pedaling biomechanics, in his latest book his pedaling section is nothing more than a rehash of the same information to be found in Burke's book ' Science of Cycling'.

Hinault was a time trialing God. Didn't know what to do... pah! God on wheels. Does this look like a man who has no clue? He's in the freaking small sprocket going uphill.

That is the only lesson you need on how to get the 12 sprocket around on a bike without tri-bars. Foobar arm resistance...

No, I believe that Pruitt has some good info on positioning...

But back to pushing up and down - after using last year as a control year back on fixed cranks it was just a "so, so" year. I weighed less and went uphill slower. I put out less power yet, thanks to the wonders of Cannondales' Hi-Mod frame, my back hurt less. Uber comfort despite much stiffness out of the saddle. Those "fixed cranks" - Cannondales very light, very stiff, very expensive and I'm glad they came with the bike cause they cost as much as PowerCranks, Si Hollowgrams. I think they weigh less than the allen key that you have to use to take them off... yet they manage to be stiffer than structural steel. Only because I had 4 weeks devoted to short intervals did I manage to top one "best" in the power stakes - 1 minute power - but by a whopping 10 watts.

So "control year" number 2. Back to the same (or very similar) indoors during the week and outdoors at the weekend - except this year on PC's again. Tongue in cheek goal for the year - learn how to ride out of the saddle with PCs. How many years I have had these and my heiney is still glued to the saddle? LOL

Hinault was a good TT rider but would have been even better if he had known how to pedal like Anquetil. I see your PC inventor has been kicked out of the SLOWTWITCH forum because of his ridiculous power increase claims. As for the muscles involved in pedalling, it's not about the muscles, it's how you use them. BRIMBROS force/vector powermeter which should be available later this year will give a reliable graph of my LINEAR high gear TT pedalling technique. It not only applies additional maximal torque through 12 o'c, it also eliminates the root cause of cycling's persistant lower back pain. It is a self bike fitting technique because with arm and leg muscles involved in max crank torque production, there can only be one ideal seated position.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by n crowley [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

Hinault was a good TT rider but would have been even better if he had known how to pedal like Anquetil.

So could every other rider you care to name. Hinault was a powerful monster compared to Anquetil.

I wonder if Tony Martin pedals like Anquetil?

*cough*

Thanks for surfacing this gem.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970
I wonder if Tony Martin pedals like Anquetil?

*cough*

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970
I wonder if Tony Martin pedals like Anquetil?

*cough*

*cough* * cough* . No, Anquetil's crank torque and resistance came from his hips, Martin's comes from his core as does all aero bar users' pedal power.
http://djconnel.blogspot.ie/2013/07/time-trial-position-anquetil-versus.html

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by n crowley
Anquetil's crank torque and resistance came from his hips, Martin's comes from his core as does all aero bar users' pedal power.
http://djconnel.blogspot.ie/2013/07/time-trial-position-anquetil-versus.html

The link only seems to indicate Martin and Anquetil have similar upper body profiles, it didn't mention anything about origin of power. Where is it published that all aero bar users generate power from their core?

I've only used them a few times but it wasn't on a saddle forward TT bike. Using the shorter version on a road bike, like the Vision Tech Mini clip-ons, everything seemed roughly the same to me (my position was almost identical to that as if I were just hanging my forearms over the top of the bar).

It also shows they ride bicycles and press on the pedals hard...

Quote: Originally Posted by danfoz [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

The link only seems to indicate Martin and Anquetil have similar upper body profiles, it didn't mention anything about origin of power. Where is it published that all aero bar users generate power from their core?

I've only used them a few times but it wasn't on a saddle forward TT bike. Using the shorter version on a road bike, like the Vision Tech Mini clip-ons, everything seemed roughly the same to me (my position was almost identical to that as if I were just hanging my forearms over the top of the bar).

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/tour01/news/living.shtml

You will get a clue to the origin of Anquetil's TT pedalling power here, but the fact is every cyclist has a powerful rear end, only problem is, they don't know how to use it. All cyclists' pedalling resistance is supplied by gravity, Anquetil's TT pedalling resistance came mainly form his hips.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by n crowley

All cyclists' pedalling resistance is supplied by gravity, Anquetil's TT pedalling resistance came mainly form his hips.

Thinking about it much of my power probably comes from my hips, but I do not ponder it consciously as I pedal and I suspect neither did Anquetil. He probably just pedaled the way he pedaled and it was everyone else speculating on the voodoo of his style. Seriously, to hear some of these Frenchy's waffle on about his elegance with exaggerated gesticulation blushing like schoolgirls is almost comical. Statements based on anecdote are highly subjective, and it would be highly speculative and difficult at best to extrapolate through observation alone where the power was coming from. One would need some pretty serious and expensive equipment measuring precisely how many fibers within a muscle were in a state of contraction and where in the body those muscles were concentrated.

People however are entitled to their beliefs. I believe we all find our own efficient pedaling style which may in itself evolve over time with or without input, but problems arise when we apply a dogmatic approach to what should work best for everyone. Tony Martin vs. Lance Armstrong... could you imagine forcing either one of their styles on the other? It would be a disaster.

Most of the power is generated the same place that N Crowley talks from, your ass - specifically the glutes and the adjoining hamstrings of course.

That would explain my extremely muscular gluteal section ;P

Saying power comes from the hips is really my metaphorical reference for the little man conducting the orchestra that moves the bike i.e. all the muscles controlling extension of the hip joint, gluteus max being the primary, medius, minimus and piriformis (the one I personally need to stretch after a hard ride) playing a lesser role in the movement. And of course the three muscles making up the hams. Every cyclist generates a substantial portion of their power from this zone. The hip is a joint and couldn't do much by itself.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by danfoz
That would explain my extremely muscular gluteal section ;P

Saying power comes from the hips is really my metaphorical reference for the little man conducting the orchestra that moves the bike i.e. all the muscles controlling extension of the hip joint, gluteus max being the primary, medius, minimus and piriformis (the one I personally need to stretch after a hard ride) playing a lesser role in the movement. And of course the three muscles making up the hams. Every cyclist generates a substantial portion of their power from this zone. The hip is a joint and couldn't do much by itself.

Cyclists don't make effective use of the muscles in their lower legs and ankles, if Anquetil had not made maximal use of these, he could never have used the power from his hips to apply the same maximal power over the top as he applied on his downstroke, they enabled him to direct continuous maximal power from the hips over the top and down and this explains his unusual toes down pedalling style. I hope to confirm this when (if) Brim Bros force vector powermeter becomes available here.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by n crowley

Cyclists don't make effective use of the muscles in their lower legs and ankles, if Anquetil had not made maximal use of these, he could never have used the power from his hips to apply the same maximal power over the top as he applied on his downstroke, they enabled him to direct continuous maximal power from the hips over the top and down and this explains his unusual toes down pedalling style. I hope to confirm this when (if) Brim Bros force vector powermeter becomes available here.

Such insight from someone who has never actually measured the power or forces of any rider and even presented the data from others. Just nonsensical observations.

If the technique was that much superior ANY power meter would be able to measure the difference.

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by fergie

This technique needs more than a power measuring PM, it needs a top class PM that is capable of demonstrating where exactly it's possible to apply maximal torque in the pedalling circle.

You claim your technique can increase power while riding. What do you use to measure power with again?

fergie said:

[dilbert]bwahahahahahahaaaaaaa[/dilbert] If Anquetil was so great with his monster hip power, how come he only beat Coppi's hour record that had stood for 14 years by less that 400 meters yet with the space of just over a year his record was beaten twice and was about 3/4 kilometer further than Jacques had done. Hips - the only time that someone should mention anything about hips is when you're talking about Shakira!

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by swampy1970

[dilbert]bwahahahahahahaaaaaaa[/dilbert]

If Anquetil was so great with his monster hip power, how come he only beat Coppi's hour record that had stood for 14 years by less that 400 meters yet with the space of just over a year his record was beaten twice and was about 3/4 kilometer further than Jacques had done.

Hips - the only time that someone should mention anything about hips is when you're talking about Shakira!

This from a man who believes Powercranks can give a 40% power improvement ? His objective was to beat the record and like all his TT wins they were carefully planned well beforehand because he did not believe in doing any more than was necessary to meet his objective.

I'm not the one that said they'd give a 40% improvement. You'd need to thank Frank for that statement. I got some improvement from them and it showed up on my power meter. Hour records are designed to be smashed. I can't imagine Jacques thinking "yeah , I'm gonna smash this one by about 2km, so I'll just take it easy , beat it by a few hundred meters and not get the legs too sore so I can go out get some vino afterwards..." Actually he failed twice in his attempt to beat Coppi's record. Years later he beat the record again but failed to take the then new post race drugs test - I wonder why... Must have been because his hips were so strong he'd risk breaking the glass beaker he was supposed to pee in!

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by fergie
You claim your technique can increase power while riding. What do you use to measure power with again?

By the amount of additional resistance that has to found to counteract that maximal force across the top , you can feel the surge in power the instant you switch from natural pedalling to this TT technique.