Perfect trousers?

Judith said:

What alternatives are there? I would like something like a
lightweight Viento. I want windproof but not too hot. I want to
leave them on all day; I don't want to be stopping to change my
trousers several times a day.

Our Norway trek in July would be not too far off quite expectable
Scottish conditions around early May, see
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/hmn1.htm for the tour diary),
and we both sported Schoeller Dryskin trousers for the majority of the
time (I used Tracksters for the first couple of days at lower level with
the sun out). And we were both very pleased with them.

Roos was using a pair I'd picked up cheap and somewhat speculatively on
eBay, a sample pair of Lowe ones that never seem to have reached
production, but they weren't a proper women's fit and she still seemed
very pleased with them. Good enough that recent recent shopping trips
centred on a replacement pair that fit her better (Braemar Mountain had
some Patagonia Guide Pants in a similar material that not only fitted
better than anything else but were in their sale too!).

Not waterproof like Paramo, but they deal with rain better than
Tracksters IMHO, especially if they've a good surface treatment (mine
have Schoeller's "Nanospehere" treatment which, so far at least, is
quite remarkable and it keeps them very clean too, stains just brushing
off, Roos' Lowe eBay pair had TX-10 washed in which was good, but not as
good as the Nanosphere).

Dryskin is stretchy so excellent freedom of movement without a baggy
cut. It's not fully windproof but it's near as dammit (was out in mine
in some pretty serious wind and never felt it on my legs). It doesn't
hold much water and dries quite fast, and isn't unspeakable to wear when
wet (at least IMHO and IME). I think it's about optimum for a pair of
trousers for general hill use.

There are various alternatives of similar materials, but I don't really
have that much on hard comparisons. The folk at Braemar reckoned
Patagonia's were more breathable than most, and a report on soft shell
jackets in Op Pad had various "own brand" with actually fairly poor
breathability results. But they're typically cheaper than yer actual
Schoeller Dryskin (but not the Patti ones, of course!), so you pays yer
money and takes your choice.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Hi Judith

I've always had this problem too because I hate rain overtrousers and could
never find anything that comfortable. In the end, the ones that have been
the most comfortable(and you may not even be able to get them now) are the
bog-standard millets walking trousers. They are incredibly quick-drying,
relatively windproof and have never ripped badly or been too hot or cold to
walk in.

That would be my recommendation. Alternatively I'd go for fleecy ronhills(I
think craghoppers do one) or the thicker ronhills

Rob
"Judith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm considering what to wear for the 2008 TGO Challenge. I've not
sent off my entry form yet, and there's no guarantee I'll get a place
but there's no harm in planning ahead.

Last year I wore either lightweight Ron Hills with or without light
overtrousers, or Rohan trousers with the legs zipped off if required.

This year I wore Paramo Viento trousers. Quite often I zipped off the
legs and I did like the elesticated pouch which allowed me to clip the
legs to my pack and meant I did not need to remove my rucksack to take
off or put on the legs.

The Paramo trousers were perfect for the few cold, nasty days I had
but were slightly too warm for the majority of days. Removing the
legs made them a lot better but I still found them too warm.

What alternatives are there? I would like something like a
lightweight Viento. I want windproof but not too hot. I want to
leave them on all day; I don't want to be stopping to change my
trousers several times a day.

Ron Hills are fine but my thighs do get cold if the rain is persistant
and the wind cold.

Am I searching for the Holy Grail of trousers?

Judith

Peter Clinch said:

we both sported Schoeller Dryskin trousers for the majority of the
time (I used Tracksters for the first couple of days at lower level with
the sun out). And we were both very pleased with them.

Thanks Pete

I can't picture what Dryskin is like. I must have seen it in shops,
or being worn, but I've never been interested enough to look at it. I
find there are so many brands and fabrics that I need personal
recommendation (or a Sale rail!) before I look at something new.

It does sound suitable for my purpose, so I'll do a bit of research.
I don't suppose Schoeller Dryskin trousers have Ron Hill's greatest
attribute ....... less than £15 a pair? No, thought not.

Judith

Rob Devereux said:

the ones that have been
the most comfortable(and you may not even be able to get them now) are the
bog-standard millets walking trousers. They are incredibly quick-drying,
relatively windproof and have never ripped badly or been too hot or cold to
walk in.

I used to do all my walking in that sort of trousers but nowadays I
prefer a "tights" type eg Ron Hills, or shorts. However, I do have a
pair of Rohans which are relatively comfortable for walking but I took
them on last year's TGO Challenge as my smart clothes for if I ever
needed to [censored] myself up in a pub or something.

I wore the Rohans as shorts when the weather was good and wore the Ron
Hills when the weather was cold. I also had the option of wearing the
Ron Hills as pyjamas if the night-time temperature was low.

Quoted message said:

That would be my recommendation. Alternatively I'd go for fleecy ronhills(I
think craghoppers do one) or the thicker ronhills

In winter I do walk in the thicker Ron Hills but these would probably
be too warm for me in May. Or, if the lightweight RHs were too cold I
would put my overtrousers on. However, if I KNEW it would be cold
then I would wear my Paramo trousers. It's the uncertainty of the
Scottish/British weather that causes the problems!

Judith

Judith said:

I can't picture what Dryskin is like.

It's one of the original "soft shell" fabrics. The outer surface is
quite a close weave, though not sheer like Pertex and it's not brushed
into a pile at all. Looks similar to PowerShield, if you know what
that's like (P-Shield is very similar in many respects but quite a bit
warmer, not really something to use outside winter). Typically
available in black, black, grey or black.
Once you get it into your hands you note it's thinner than it looks, and
is stretchy.

Quoted message said:

It does sound suitable for my purpose, so I'll do a bit of research.
I don't suppose Schoeller Dryskin trousers have Ron Hill's greatest
attribute ....... less than £15 a pair? No, thought not.

ROTFL :-(

The most widely sold pair seem to be Mammut Base Jumps, yours for £100
RRP. My ME Liskamms (not currently in a womens specific fit which the
Base jumps are) are £120, though they do have the Nanosphere finish
which the Mammuts don't. Berghaus do a pair at the rather [censored]-taking
RRP of £180 but I really can't see any way to justify that (except of
course the age-old one of people are mad enough to pay it...).

Prices vary for Schoeller-a-like things (much like Goretex substitutes,
and will similarly be of varying quality though I can't tell you how
things stack upp). Roos' bargain-bin Patti Guides were a mere £70, down
from something with 3 numbers in, ME's Mountain Stretch Pants (unlike
the Liskamms they come in a women's fit) are £72, Marmot women's ATV
Pant is £90, and so on.

So sadly the case that they are remarkably un-cheap :-(

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Judith said:

I can't picture what Dryskin is like.

It's one of the original "soft shell" fabrics. The outer surface is
quite a close weave, though not sheer like Pertex and it's not brushed
into a pile at all. Looks similar to PowerShield, if you know what
that's like (P-Shield is very similar in many respects but quite a bit
warmer, not really something to use outside winter). Typically
available in black, black, grey or black.
Once you get it into your hands you note it's thinner than it looks, and
is stretchy.

It's light weight Cordura on the outside, lihht fleece inside, with 4
way stretch. Not VERY stretchy, but it gives nicely.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It does sound suitable for my purpose, so I'll do a bit of research.
I don't suppose Schoeller Dryskin trousers have Ron Hill's greatest
attribute ....... less than £15 a pair? No, thought not.

Can't even make them for that, sorry...

Quoted message said:

ROTFL :-(

The most widely sold pair seem to be Mammut Base Jumps, yours for £100
RRP. My ME Liskamms (not currently in a womens specific fit which the
Base jumps are) are £120, though they do have the Nanosphere finish
which the Mammuts don't. Berghaus do a pair at the rather [censored]-taking
RRP of £180 but I really can't see any way to justify that (except of
course the age-old one of people are mad enough to pay it...).

Prices vary for Schoeller-a-like things (much like Goretex substitutes,
and will similarly be of varying quality though I can't tell you how
things stack upp). Roos' bargain-bin Patti Guides were a mere £70, down
from something with 3 numbers in, ME's Mountain Stretch Pants (unlike
the Liskamms they come in a women's fit) are £72, Marmot women's ATV
Pant is £90, and so on.

EEK!!!

Quoted message said:

So sadly the case that they are remarkably un-cheap :-(

Well, I can get the fabric for 39 Euros a metre. You'd need 2m for a
pair of simple trousers, as it's 134cm wide. A simple pattern wouldn't
cost too much to make up. Comes in bright royal blue and black

Shout if you are interested, and I'll see what I can do. You'd need a
fitting, and I'm in Kent. Fittings CAN be done by post, but in person
is easier.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kate XXXXXX said:

Well, I can get the fabric for 39 Euros a metre.

Do you have separate prices for the fabric with and without the
Nanosphere treatment? It certainly seems to put a premium on the
finished article, but at least so far I'm impressed with how effective
it is.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Kate XXXXXX said:

Well, I can get the fabric for 39 Euros a metre.

Do you have separate prices for the fabric with and without the
Nanosphere treatment? It certainly seems to put a premium on the
finished article, but at least so far I'm impressed with how effective
it is.

Pete.

No, only one price/type. I'd get it here:
http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_34&products_id=155

Shelby are nice to deal with, and my last order came through really fast
(but it was just a pattern, some tape, and the samples!). The Dryskin
sample feels really nice, as do most of the fabrics.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kate XXXXXX said:

Peter Clinch said:

Kate XXXXXX said:

Well, I can get the fabric for 39 Euros a metre.

Do you have separate prices for the fabric with and without the
Nanosphere treatment? It certainly seems to put a premium on the
finished article, but at least so far I'm impressed with how
effective it is.

Pete.

No, only one price/type. I'd get it here:
http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_34&products_id=155

Shelby are nice to deal with, and my last order came through really
fast (but it was just a pattern, some tape, and the samples!). The
Dryskin sample feels really nice, as do most of the fabrics.

Thanks, very useful information on the availability of fabrics.

Passed to my seamstress expert partner for her consideration.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Nigel Cliffe said:

Kate XXXXXX said:

Peter Clinch said:

Kate XXXXXX wrote:

> Well, I can get the fabric for 39 Euros a metre.
Do you have separate prices for the fabric with and without the
Nanosphere treatment? It certainly seems to put a premium on the
finished article, but at least so far I'm impressed with how
effective it is.

Pete.

No, only one price/type. I'd get it here:
http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_34&products_id=155

Shelby are nice to deal with, and my last order came through really
fast (but it was just a pattern, some tape, and the samples!). The
Dryskin sample feels really nice, as do most of the fabrics.

Thanks, very useful information on the availability of fabrics.

Passed to my seamstress expert partner for her consideration.

Great! Tell her to get in touch if she wants a like-minded fabric
sniffer to talk projects through with. And I can put her in touch with
a couple of helpful groups, too.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Kate XXXXXX said:

Nigel Cliffe said:

Kate XXXXXX said:

Peter Clinch wrote:
> Kate XXXXXX wrote:
>
>> Well, I can get the fabric for 39 Euros a metre.
> Do you have separate prices for the fabric with and without the
> Nanosphere treatment? It certainly seems to put a premium on the
> finished article, but at least so far I'm impressed with how
> effective it is.
>
> Pete.
No, only one price/type. I'd get it here:
http://www.shelby.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_34&products_id=155

Shelby are nice to deal with, and my last order came through really
fast (but it was just a pattern, some tape, and the samples!). The
Dryskin sample feels really nice, as do most of the fabrics.

Thanks, very useful information on the availability of fabrics.

Passed to my seamstress expert partner for her consideration.

Great! Tell her to get in touch if she wants a like-minded fabric
sniffer to talk projects through with. And I can put her in touch
with a couple of helpful groups, too.

Thanks, will do.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Kate XXXXXX said:

Quoted message said:

Once you get it into your hands you note it's thinner than it looks, and
is stretchy.

It's light weight Cordura on the outside, lihht fleece inside, with 4
way stretch. Not VERY stretchy, but it gives nicely.

Fleece inside? What does that mean in terms of sharing the train with
other fare-paying customers after a two week backpack?! And will it
dry over night?

I did pop into a local walking shop a few days ago but they didn't
seem to have any Schoeller Dryskin garments although I have now seen
photos.

Judith

Judith said:

Kate XXXXXX said:

Quoted message said:

Once you get it into your hands you note it's thinner than it looks, and
is stretchy.

It's light weight Cordura on the outside, lihht fleece inside, with 4
way stretch. Not VERY stretchy, but it gives nicely.

Fleece inside? What does that mean in terms of sharing the train with
other fare-paying customers after a two week backpack?! And will it
dry over night?

I did pop into a local walking shop a few days ago but they didn't
seem to have any Schoeller Dryskin garments although I have now seen
photos.

Judith

Fabric total thickness is about 1/16th" uncompressed. Looks heavily
brushed loops on the inside rather than a wodge of polar fleece.

Dries quickly. Should dry over night so long as it isn't hung up
dripping, If you spin it dry, it should dry next to a radiator in 2-3
hours.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Judith said:

Fleece inside?

Think "fleecy" as in warmer than Tracksters, rather than, for
example, as warm as Paramo trousers (Roos uses her Cascadas for
standing round on cold, wet days, she uses her Dryskin trews for
walking places in). Certainly not as fleecy on the inside as the
otherwise relatively similar Powershield.

Quoted message said:

What does that mean in terms of sharing the train with
other fare-paying customers after a two week backpack?!

I was doing pretty much exactly that in mine coming back from our
Norway trip and nobody seemed to be fainting...

Quoted message said:

And will it dry over night?

Mine do, although admittedly they had a wood burning stove to help
them. But having walked for a few hours in drizzle and driech they
were comfy enough to just leave on, despite being in a hut with a
stove and alterntaives in my pack.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/