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Pharmaceuticals in our water

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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18 October 2004
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23 October 2004
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fresh~horses
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  1. http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in
    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but are
    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    ....

    The concentrations of these chemicals detected in water are minute,
    typically between 20 parts per billion (ppb) and less than one part
    per trillion (ppt) for each substance. But drugs are designed to have
    an effect in small quantities and small amounts of different chemicals
    can add up or interact. We are exposed to a mix of PPCPs on a daily
    basis, throughout our lives. The substances and quantities will vary
    depending on where we live; each community has its own "chemical
    soup". Many drug compounds dissolve in water but about 30 per cent
    dissolve only in fat. This enables them to enter cells and move up
    food chains to become more concentrated. Another concern is that, as a
    society, we are using more drugs than ever before, setting the stage
    for increased contamination over time.

    more......

    Written by Sharon Batt in collaboration with Women and Health
    Protection

    October 2004

    Copyright ©2004 Women and Health Protection

  2. I hear you, boycott all drugs, antibiotics, painkillers,
    anti-inflammatories, hormones and chemotherapy drugs.
    You start first ok so the next time you get pneumonia make sure you mention
    it. We won't give you antibiotics because one part per trillion of it was
    found in the environment. It would really help the trend in resistance to
    common antibiotics so if it is not given at all then it only kills the
    person with the infection but it saves us from the germs developing
    resistance. It is better for someone to die of an infection then using
    antibiotics which destroy the environment.
    I also agree that someone dying in pain should not be given any pain
    killers. I think surgery should be done without anesthetics. You must bite
    the bullet.

    "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in
    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but are
    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    ...

    The concentrations of these chemicals detected in water are minute,
    typically between 20 parts per billion (ppb) and less than one part
    per trillion (ppt) for each substance. But drugs are designed to have
    an effect in small quantities and small amounts of different chemicals
    can add up or interact. We are exposed to a mix of PPCPs on a daily
    basis, throughout our lives. The substances and quantities will vary
    depending on where we live; each community has its own "chemical
    soup". Many drug compounds dissolve in water but about 30 per cent
    dissolve only in fat. This enables them to enter cells and move up
    food chains to become more concentrated. Another concern is that, as a
    society, we are using more drugs than ever before, setting the stage
    for increased contamination over time.

    more......

    Written by Sharon Batt in collaboration with Women and Health
    Protection

    October 2004

    Copyright ©2004 Women and Health Protection

  3. Can't be any worse than anything else thats put down a toilet.
    Think about it.

    Brad

  4. "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in
    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but are
    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    Let's be more clear on what is being talked about here. Those sorts of test
    results apply to surface water sources, and only those surface water sources
    into which sewage discharge occurs. One man's sewage can become another
    man's drinking water. Look what happens to the Colorado River, for example.
    Every community most certainly brings in drinking water upstream of their
    own sewage outflow pipe, but what about the next community downstream?

    By water, are they saying drinking water? Or, is this a unnecessarily
    unspecific reference to water, meant to incite an overly emotional response?
    Receiving waters just downstream of a sewage outfall (where many such
    samples are taken (I'm an environmental toxicologist. I have done such
    analyses.)) ought not to be confabulated with treated drinking water.

    Of far more concern are other man-made chemicals that make their way into
    surface waters (and, in some cases groundwater), particularly agricultural
    chemicals. The only reason we're discovering that pharmaceuticals are
    entering the environment in any appreciable amount is because analytical
    technology has become so advanced over the last two decades. It's not like
    they're suddenly appearing only recently. They've always been there, one
    must assume.

    The article makes reference to some very low concentrations, down to 1 ppt
    (part per trillion). Do you have any real comprehension just how dilute that
    is? Let me give you an example. For a liquid dissolved in water, part per
    trillion is best represented by a single drop of the substance diluted in
    the contents of 880 rail tank cars (a train six and a half miles long). Or
    that same drop in the contents of three Olympic size swimming pools.

    By any chance, has your post been inspired by the publication of an article
    in the Guardian (UK), which claimed to have found Prozac in drinking water?
    The report was fabricated. Did you know that? In any case, consider the
    inference of the massive dilution.

    1 ppt is defined in units such as ng per litre. A ng is 10^-9 of a gram, and
    a litre of water is, by definition, one kilogram of water, or 10^3 grams.
    There is thus a ratio of 10^-12, analyte to water. To preserve that ratio,
    whatever we do to one side of the ratio (mathematically), we must also do to
    the other. If Prozac was in the water at 1 ppt, to obtain 20 mg of Prozac
    (the basic pharmaceutical dose), you would have to multiply the 1 ng/litre
    by some factor, so that the mass on the left became 20 mg. That factor is
    20,000,000 (There are 1,000,000 nanograms in a miligram, and we want 20
    mg.). Therefore, there are 20 mg Prozac in 20,000,000 litres of water. To
    visually represent that mass of water, let us consider the volume of 1,000
    litres of water. By definition, that volume of water occupies a space of 1
    metre cubed, and weighs one metric tonne. To visualize that mass of water,
    you would need to look at 20,000 of such metre cubed volumes. Stacked on
    end, that would be column of water one metre by one metre square, with a
    height of 20,000 metres, or 20 km high (about 2 1/2 times the height of Mt.
    Everest), having a mass of 20,000 tonnes. I'd like to see anybody drink that
    much water, let alone the kidneys that could retain the drug from that
    volume.

    The U.K.'s Drinking Water Inspectorate has been quietly monitoring all
    drinking water under their perview for many years. Because agricultural
    chemicals had been shown (twenty years ago) to be making their way into
    drinking water, all drinking water is now pre-treated by solid-phase
    extraction, to remove pesticides, herbicides, and the like. Any
    pharmaceuticals (except perhaps ibuprofen, I'm not sure) are removed along
    with those other contaminants.

    There was actually a research report upon which the Guardian "based" their
    article, but they completed falsified what it found. The report was prepared
    for the *Environment Agency*, and was an analysis of riverine waters just
    downstream of sewage outfalls. Indeed, it has for years been the policy of
    that agency to understand the impact of pharmaceutical drugs entering the
    environment. The subject report is not specific to Prozac, or to even
    antidepressants as a class. Prozac was not even an analyte in the study, as
    it breaks down both before it is excreted, and after excretion, under
    microbial influence. Here's a link to the original report. Take a gander at
    how much ibuprofen is getting into the environment.
    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/commondata/105385/p601206trv2_578719.pdf
    That might be an issue. Also, consider that report in the context of the
    following policy statement:
    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/aboutus/512398/289428/698017/?version=1&lang=_e
    As you can see, governments are taking proactive stands with respect to
    these contaminants, as soon as they are known to be in the water.

    Once pharmaceuticals are released into the environment from sewage outfalls,
    very complex physio-chemical influences come into play. Dr. MacKay developed
    mathematical modelling of these influences, generalized under the term
    fugacity (the ability of a substance to flee, or to move through the
    environment, and where it will end up). It's a far cry from saying that we
    found something making it through an STP undegraded, and concluding that it
    also in drinking water.

    For the individual consumer, prudence would indicate that all drinking water
    be subject to some form of chemical purification. Most water treatment
    plants (world-wide) are there to remove suspended particles, organic
    material, and pathogenic organisms, but not dissolved chemicals (although
    that is changins all the time). Water is known as "the universal solvent".
    (Of course, it doesn't dissolve everything.) The simplest treatment to
    remove pesticides, pharmaceuticals, and the like, is solid phase extraction.
    Brita makes such filters, but so do many others. Some (but not all) bottled
    waters are purified. Simple prudence, not abject fear. As long as man has
    been a polluter, water has carried pollutants. What a pollutant, or
    combinations thereof, will do to organisms at very low concentrations is an
    open question, but filtering your water may render the question moot in your
    own case.

    Lar

  5. "The article makes reference to some very low concentrations, down to 1
    ppt (part per trillion). Do you have any real comprehension just how
    dilute that is? Let me give you an example. For a liquid dissolved in
    water, part per trillion is best represented by a single drop of the
    substance diluted in the contents of 880 rail tank cars (a train six and a
    half miles long). Or that same drop in the contents of three Olympic size
    swimming pools."

    A smart homoeopathy type would see this as a bonanza, here is natural
    dilution and by definition make the drugs more powerful; all thos gallons
    going to waiste for the fishies; there is a thought - homoeopathic fish,
    hmmmm.

  6. "Larry Hoover" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in
    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but are
    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    Let's be more clear on what is being talked about here. Those sorts of


    test

    Quoted message said:

    results apply to surface water sources, and only those surface water


    sources

    Quoted message said:

    into which sewage discharge occurs. One man's sewage can become another
    man's drinking water. Look what happens to the Colorado River, for


    example.

    Quoted message said:

    Every community most certainly brings in drinking water upstream of their
    own sewage outflow pipe, but what about the next community downstream?

    By water, are they saying drinking water? Or, is this a unnecessarily
    unspecific reference to water, meant to incite an overly emotional


    response?

    Quoted message said:

    Receiving waters just downstream of a sewage outfall (where many such
    samples are taken (I'm an environmental toxicologist. I have done such
    analyses.)) ought not to be confabulated with treated drinking water.

    Yeah - screw that [censored]. Here in California - thanks to the "cleaner burning
    gasoline" which isn't - every single major water source in the state now has
    measurable ammounts of MTBE - a solvent which is very likely a carcinogen.
    AFAIK - it isn't removed by the processes currently being used to treat
    drinking water.

    Guido

  7. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "The article makes reference to some very low concentrations, down to 1
    ppt (part per trillion). Do you have any real comprehension just how
    dilute that is? Let me give you an example. For a liquid dissolved in
    water, part per trillion is best represented by a single drop of the
    substance diluted in the contents of 880 rail tank cars (a train six and a
    half miles long). Or that same drop in the contents of three Olympic size
    swimming pools."

    A smart homoeopathy type would see this as a bonanza, here is natural
    dilution and by definition make the drugs more powerful; all thos gallons
    going to waiste for the fishies; there is a thought - homoeopathic fish,
    hmmmm.

    It did occur to me, the homeopathy angle. One bit of poor science at a time.

    Lar

  8. Larry Hoover said:

    "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy


    and

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found


    in

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but


    are

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    Let's be more clear on what is being talked about here. Those sorts


    of test

    Quoted message said:

    results apply to surface water sources, and only those surface water


    sources

    Quoted message said:

    into which sewage discharge occurs. One man's sewage can become


    another

    Quoted message said:

    man's drinking water. Look what happens to the Colorado River, for


    example.

    Quoted message said:

    Every community most certainly brings in drinking water upstream of


    their

    Quoted message said:

    own sewage outflow pipe, but what about the next community


    downstream?

    Quoted message said:


    By water, are they saying drinking water?

    Larry

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/fullCircle.html

    "Sharon Batt is a Halifax-based researcher and health activist. She is
    on the Steering Committee of Women and Health Protection and is a
    member of the independent health coalition Prevention First. She held
    the Elizabeth May Chair in Women's Health and the Environment at the
    Atlantic Centre of Excellence for Women's Health at Dalhousie
    University from 2001-2003. She is currently doing PhD studies in the
    ethics of health research and policy at Dalhousie."

    Why don't you write to the author with your questions?

    [email hidden]

    The report is part of something larger, and isn't a toss-off response
    to a newspaper article. Over the past couple years tests done on
    Canadian rivers have shown pharmaceuticals in the water after
    treatment.

    I don't think it was something "meant to incite an overly emotional
    response."

    "In 2003, The Scientist magazine named Dalhousie the best place in the
    world, outside the United States, to conduct scientific research. If
    you've a passion for research, your place is here."

    Zee

  9. "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    The report is part of something larger, and isn't a toss-off response
    to a newspaper article. Over the past couple years tests done on
    Canadian rivers have shown pharmaceuticals in the water after
    treatment.

    I know. I did some of that work.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't think it was something "meant to incite an overly emotional
    response."

    The word "water" without any descriptors is too vague. If you thought
    "drinking water" rather than "within 100 metres of a sewage outflow", you're
    going to come to different conclusions.

    Quoted message said:

    "In 2003, The Scientist magazine named Dalhousie the best place in the
    world, outside the United States, to conduct scientific research. If
    you've a passion for research, your place is here."

    I was educated at the 2nd best (according to Macleans) small Canadian
    university. Trent U., in Ontario. Dalhousie was first. At least, that was
    true the last time I read the findings of the Macleans survey.

    Lar

  10. "getsumonya" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<cbQcd.18$gq2.17@trnddc01>...

    Quoted message said:

    Can't be any worse than anything else thats put down a toilet.
    Think about it.

    Brad

    It's in *addition* to everything else put down the toilet.
    Think about that.

    TC

  11. "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in
    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but are
    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    ...

    The concentrations of these chemicals detected in water are minute,
    typically between 20 parts per billion (ppb) and less than one part
    per trillion (ppt) for each substance. But drugs are designed to have
    an effect in small quantities and small amounts of different chemicals
    can add up or interact. We are exposed to a mix of PPCPs on a daily
    basis, throughout our lives. The substances and quantities will vary
    depending on where we live; each community has its own "chemical
    soup". Many drug compounds dissolve in water but about 30 per cent
    dissolve only in fat. This enables them to enter cells and move up
    food chains to become more concentrated. Another concern is that, as a
    society, we are using more drugs than ever before, setting the stage
    for increased contamination over time.

    more......

    Written by Sharon Batt in collaboration with Women and Health
    Protection

    October 2004

    Copyright ©2004 Women and Health Protection

    Heh,if we believed in that homeopathy garbage we'd all be
    high most of the time just drinking tap water,hehhe,Adysthemic

  12. "Robert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I hear you, boycott all drugs, antibiotics, painkillers,
    anti-inflammatories, hormones and chemotherapy drugs.
    You start first ok so the next time you get pneumonia make sure you


    mention

    Quoted message said:

    it. We won't give you antibiotics because one part per trillion of it was
    found in the environment. It would really help the trend in resistance to
    common antibiotics so if it is not given at all then it only kills the
    person with the infection but it saves us from the germs developing
    resistance. It is better for someone to die of an infection then using
    antibiotics which destroy the environment.
    I also agree that someone dying in pain should not be given any pain
    killers. I think surgery should be done without anesthetics. You must bite
    the bullet.

    "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in
    many cosmetics, perfumes and hair products, has also been detected.
    Some of the substances (e.g., anti-epileptic drugs) persist in the
    environment; others are "pseudo-persistent" -- they break down but are
    continually replaced because of widespread use.

    ...

    The concentrations of these chemicals detected in water are minute,
    typically between 20 parts per billion (ppb) and less than one part
    per trillion (ppt) for each substance. But drugs are designed to have
    an effect in small quantities and small amounts of different chemicals
    can add up or interact. We are exposed to a mix of PPCPs on a daily
    basis, throughout our lives. The substances and quantities will vary
    depending on where we live; each community has its own "chemical
    soup". Many drug compounds dissolve in water but about 30 per cent
    dissolve only in fat. This enables them to enter cells and move up
    food chains to become more concentrated. Another concern is that, as a
    society, we are using more drugs than ever before, setting the stage
    for increased contamination over time.

    more......

    Written by Sharon Batt in collaboration with Women and Health
    Protection

    October 2004

    Copyright ©2004 Women and Health Protection


    Mark I had not read all replies,looks like we think in similar
    ways.I have a lot of "holistic" people at work.Not a critical
    thinker in the bunch.Scientific illiteracy abounds,A

  13. I would like to post a reply that was made to a previous drugs in our
    water article some time ago, but I cna't find it.

    Basically, it said:

    You'll care about estrogen in your drinking water, oh yeah, when you
    can't get it up anymore.

  14. "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I would like to post a reply that was made to a previous drugs in our
    water article some time ago, but I cna't find it.

    Basically, it said:

    You'll care about estrogen in your drinking water, oh yeah, when you
    can't get it up anymore.

    If there's enough estrogen in the water to give men erection problems -
    they're going to have bigger things to worry about - like dropping dead of a
    heart-attack.

    Guido

  15. Guido

    Will you stop spoiling my fun? I can't smoke, I can't toke, I can't
    drink, and now you're telling me I can't spread interesting urban
    legends?

    Seriously:I thought estrogen was protective agains cardiovascular
    disease. In'it?

    Zee

  16. "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Guido

    Will you stop spoiling my fun? I can't smoke, I can't toke, I can't
    drink, and now you're telling me I can't spread interesting urban
    legends?

    Seriously:I thought estrogen was protective agains cardiovascular
    disease. In'it?

    It is - for women. They tried a study where they gave it to men - and they
    stopped the study cause too many men dropped dead of heart-attacks.
    Hormones control very intricate and complex feedback systems in the body -
    messing with them is dangerous stuff...

    Guido

  17. "Guido Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I would like to post a reply that was made to a previous drugs in our
    water article some time ago, but I cna't find it.

    Basically, it said:

    You'll care about estrogen in your drinking water, oh yeah, when you
    can't get it up anymore.

    If there's enough estrogen in the water to give men erection problems -
    they're going to have bigger things to worry about - like dropping dead of


    a

    Quoted message said:

    heart-attack.

    Guido

    Estrogen is linked to heart-attacks??

    Is not heart attack North America's biggest people killer, or one of the top
    dogs at the sport??

    Sounds almost as good as tobacco at helping government enact population
    turn-over for profit if that's the case. Apparently some of this estrogen is
    also spread by disposable plastic containers' like soda pop, so it bypasses
    all clean-up attempts by using a seperate vector for disemination into the
    environment that is not filterable - people.

    GEM

  18. "Guido Marx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Zee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Guido

    Will you stop spoiling my fun? I can't smoke, I can't toke, I can't
    drink, and now you're telling me I can't spread interesting urban
    legends?

    Seriously:I thought estrogen was protective agains cardiovascular
    disease. In'it?

    It is - for women. They tried a study where they gave it to men - and


    they

    Quoted message said:

    stopped the study cause too many men dropped dead of heart-attacks.
    Hormones control very intricate and complex feedback systems in the body -
    messing with them is dangerous stuff...

    Guido

    Disregard initial query in previous message. 🙂

    GEM

  19. In sci.med.pharmacy fresh~horses <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : http://www.whp-apsf.ca/en/documents/pharmWater.html

    : Tests on water in North America have found trace amounts of
    : antibiotics, painkillers, anti-inflammatories, hormones,
    : tranquilizers, chemotherapy drugs and drugs used to treat epilepsy and
    : blood cholesterol. A family of chemicals called phthalates, found in

    For more on Phthalates (say, "THAL-ates"😉, see www.nottoopretty.org

  20. Hello Emma

    Yes I think that links off the site I posted. I spent weeks there one
    night...going from link to link!

    zee

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