Phil Wood B.B Cup Installation

First, do you see any dissonnance in your choice of BB and frame?
The Phil Wood BB is, albiet one of the best BB's, a very heavy piece to
be installing on a superlight frame like the Colnago C50.

To answer your question though, this slight level of increased
resistance is common with an installed Phil BB and is not noticeable
once you are actually on the bike. Also you are making a bad assumption
in assuming that the BB shell on the new colnago is perfect. things can
get through the cranks anywhere, and are actually more common in hand
processes.

Giving my .02

Josh McClure
Durst Cycles

Well the C50 is NOT super light at all. There are many carbon framesets far
lighter than the C50. That's the main reason I bought it; It's a VERY
robust frame. But what you say here. ."slight level of increased resistance
is common with an installed Phil BB and is not noticeableonce you are
actually on the bike. . ." Is what I'm experiencing. If you turn the
spindle with the cranks on you don't notice it. Only when hand turning the
spindle.

Regards,
David

ps. .I got the 145g Titanium Phil🙂
"Josh McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First, do you see any dissonnance in your choice of BB and frame?
The Phil Wood BB is, albiet one of the best BB's, a very heavy piece to
be installing on a superlight frame like the Colnago C50.

To answer your question though, this slight level of increased
resistance is common with an installed Phil BB and is not noticeable
once you are actually on the bike. Also you are making a bad assumption
in assuming that the BB shell on the new colnago is perfect. things can
get through the cranks anywhere, and are actually more common in hand
processes.

Giving my .02

Josh McClure
Durst Cycles

"Josh McClure" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First, do you see any dissonnance in your choice of BB and frame?
The Phil Wood BB is, albiet one of the best BB's, a very heavy piece to
be installing on a superlight frame like the Colnago C50.

Huh? I recently purchased a used Phil Wood mag-ti bb, its super light at
around 150g. How many bbs are that much lighter (and I should say as
strong)?

bfd said:

Huh? I recently purchased a used Phil Wood mag-ti bb, its super light at
around 150g. How many bbs are that much lighter (and I should say as
strong)?

If it's Ti, it's not strong. The spindles break off.

"Dirk Diggler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:G6LXd.58536$SF.12916@lakeread08...

Quoted message said:

After torquing to 25-lb-ft, I notice the axle doesn't turn as

quite as easy

Quoted message said:

as before it was installed. Is this possibly a slight

distortion in the BB

Quoted message said:

shell, or more likely the Phil cups grabbing onto the bb

housing not

Quoted message said:

completely perfect? I kind of doubt a brand new Colnago C50 has

a

Quoted message said:

mis-aligned shell. Anyone notice this, and if so, does the BB

spindle

Quoted message said:

loosen up? It's not MUCH different than before, just a little.

I do

Quoted message said:

realize sealed bearings when new, have more "stiction" than

roller bearings.

Phil BBs start a bit stiff, and that may be what you are feeling.
When installed, the feel is slightly more stiff, but I think this
is an illusion and results from the fact that the unit is
installed in the BB shell and not being spun in hand. If the unit
feels appreciably more stiff, then you have overtightened the
rings, which is unlikely at 25 foot pounds.

I may get flamed for this, but I believe that it is possible to
mis-install a Phil BB. This occurs when the shoulders of the
unit do not seat into the retaining rings but rather hang up (the
rings are tight), which causes the unit to go in slightly
cross-wise. This causes the bearings to bind when the retaining
rings are brought up to torque. When the unit finally seats, it
gets loose, and the cranks rock. Whether this is lore or not, I
believe it happened to me. What I did was uninstall the unit;
put a small amount of Phil grease on the outer shoulder (not on
the rings, of course, which get Locktite); reinstall the unit,
making sure it was going directly and smoothly into the rings;
then I brought it up to torque and checked to see if it was
binding. It was not. If your C50 has an Italian BB shell, I
would be very diligent with the Locktite (clean the shell and the
rings with a good degreaser that leaves no residue) because
Italian BBs are prone to loosening. If in doubt, call Phil. --
Jay Beattie.

"Paul Kopit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

bfd said:

Huh? I recently purchased a used Phil Wood mag-ti bb, its super light at
around 150g. How many bbs are that much lighter (and I should say as
strong)?

If it's Ti, it's not strong. The spindles break off.

That was my first reaction, especially since I weigh in the 190+lb catagory.
However, before I bought the bb, I emailed Phil and they told me "no
problem., our ti spindles are fine for riders up to 250lbs!" I'm saving the
email....

Dirk Diggler said:

After torquing to 25-lb-ft, I notice the axle doesn't turn as quite as easy
as before it was installed. Is this possibly a slight distortion in the BB
shell, or more likely the Phil cups grabbing onto the bb housing not
completely perfect? I kind of doubt a brand new Colnago C50 has a
mis-aligned shell. Anyone notice this, and if so, does the BB spindle
loosen up? It's not MUCH different than before, just a little. I do
realize sealed bearings when new, have more "stiction" than roller bearings.

Phils are sensitive to BB threads out of plane. See if the
Campagnolo thread guides pass easily with fingers only. If
not, retap the BB with a Campagnolo or similar piloted tap
set, so both sides of the shell are cut on one axis.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

bfd said:

That was my first reaction, especially since I weigh in the 190+lb catagory.
However, before I bought the bb, I emailed Phil and they told me "no
problem., our ti spindles are fine for riders up to 250lbs!" I'm saving the
email....

Why would a 200 lb. man risk major falls and broken bones for 2 oz. I
can take 2 oz less water or empty pockets of 2 oz of stuff.

Josh McClure said:

First, do you see any dissonnance in your choice of BB and frame?
The Phil Wood BB is, albiet one of the best BB's, a very heavy piece to
be installing on a superlight frame like the Colnago C50.

To answer your question though, this slight level of increased
resistance is common with an installed Phil BB and is not noticeable
once you are actually on the bike. Also you are making a bad assumption
in assuming that the BB shell on the new colnago is perfect. things can
get through the cranks anywhere, and are actually more common in hand
processes.

Giving my .02

Josh McClure
Durst Cycles

Superlight, interesting choice of words on this overpriced, made like a
$1500 Calfee Luna, frame.

I agree about the BB shell not being perfect tho. Colnago's QC, nor
their warranty department are not something to yell about.

Dirk Diggler said:

After torquing to 25-lb-ft, I notice the axle doesn't turn as quite as easy
as before it was installed. Is this possibly a slight distortion in the BB
shell, or more likely the Phil cups grabbing onto the bb housing not
completely perfect? I kind of doubt a brand new Colnago C50 has a
mis-aligned shell. Anyone notice this, and if so, does the BB spindle
loosen up? It's not MUCH different than before, just a little. I do
realize sealed bearings when new, have more "stiction" than roller bearings.

A little seal drag is possible with the Phil BB BUT run a tap thru the
threads of the C-50. Assuming that Colnago BB threads, along with other
things about the frame being perfect because it's so expensive is not
quite accurate.

No flames at all, in fact I said the very thing on a "Roadbike Review"
form thread. The cups have all those edges that "catch" the BB
housing. I can see easily how if two or three cought before the others
it may ever so slightly change the axial alignment. The spindle turns
smooth still, it just seems to be a little stiffer than before. Also,
the Phil seems to have VERY tight specs, I imagine if I stuck a
Campgnolo BB in the same hole it would not exhibit this odd behavior.

Quoted message said:

bfd said:

That was my first reaction, especially since I weigh in the 190+lb catagory.
However, before I bought the bb, I emailed Phil and they told me "no
problem., our ti spindles are fine for riders up to 250lbs!" I'm saving the
email....

Paul Kopit:

Quoted message said:

Why would a 200 lb. man risk major falls and broken bones for 2 oz. I
can take 2 oz less water or empty pockets of 2 oz of stuff.

I'm with Paul.

After seeing perfectly innocent humans with smashed faces
hips, hands and bicycles, we no longer sell _any_ titanium
spindles here- BB or pedal. Phil's quality is nonpareil -
I'm sure it's among the every best - but titanium just isn't
reliable in the application.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo wrote:

Assuming that Colnago BB threads, along with other

Quoted message said:

things about the frame being perfect because it's so expensive is not

Quoted message said:

quite accurate.

I fully agree with you on that. I guess what I should have said it's
essentially impossible to mess up tapping an Italian Bottom Bracket,
and that's why Colnago and Tesh (I imagine others) use this type of
threading. You align on ONE side, and just go straight through. I
should have said that. I'm 99.9% positive it's the Phil BB, and I've
heard others say the same thing. It seems best installation is loctite
242 and minimal touque on locking rings. The interference fit between
the rings and the housing is overkill IMO.

Quoted message said:

Qui Si Parla Campagnolo wrote:
Assuming that Colnago BB threads, along with other

Quoted message said:

things about the frame being perfect because it's so expensive is not
quite accurate.

Quoted message said:

I fully agree with you on that. I guess what I should have said it's
essentially impossible to mess up tapping an Italian Bottom Bracket,
and that's why Colnago and Tesh (I imagine others) use this type of
threading. You align on ONE side, and just go straight through. I
should have said that. I'm 99.9% positive it's the Phil BB, and I've
heard others say the same thing. It seems best installation is loctite
242 and minimal touque on locking rings. The interference fit between
the rings and the housing is overkill IMO.

OK I understand you.

But the frequency of Phil Wood problems is quite small and
thread issues with Colnagos are common. In practice, few
houses pass one tap all the way through.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

OK I understand you.

But the frequency of Phil Wood problems is quite small and
thread issues with Colnagos are common. In practice, few
houses pass one tap all the way through.

Tesch at least had a fixture on his lathe he would use to hold the BB
while cutting threads all the way through with the lathe.

--

John ([email hidden])

12 Mar 2005 15:38:31 -0600 A Muzi said:

But the frequency of Phil Wood problems is quite small and
thread issues with Colnagos are common. In practice, few
houses pass one tap all the way through.

Since all of the BB taps I've ever seen were only about as long as
they were wide, they really can't be expected to pilot themselves
perfectly thru a bottom bracket. They will wander.

The only way to prevent this is to use piloted taps from each side.

-
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Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
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