Phil Wood BB

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

How much clearance do you have between the crankarms and the chainstays?

jp_nyc said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
approved fitting system.

Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
and/or a torn meniscus.

Why take the risk?

Mecha397 said:

jp_nyc said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
approved fitting system.

Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
and/or a torn meniscus.

Why take the risk?

Let's assume a symmetric BB spindle.

0.5 * (109.5 mm - 108 mm) = 0.75 mm on each side
0.5 * (111 mm - 109.5 mm) = 0.75 mm on each side

But let's say the difference is all on the drive side. So that moves
the right foot out 1.5 mm.

Is it really *that* risky? Personally, I'd be more concerned with the
chainline.
\\paul

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
be using?

I think you have your wires crossed.

A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink splined
spindle.

JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.

If you have splined Ultegra cranks, you need to use a Shimano 105, Ultegra,
or Dura Ace 109.5mm splined bottom bracket.

If you're replacing the cranks, you need to match the spindle length and
format to the cranks.

James Thomson

Mecha397 said:

jp_nyc said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
approved fitting system.

Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
and/or a torn meniscus.

Huh? Move the pedals by 1.5mm and your legs fall apart? Scary stuff.
Especially for all those riders who've never worried about it (not
knowiing they're destined for a wheelchair within the month). ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mecha397 said:

jp_nyc said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
approved fitting system.

111mm, since the crank has gone on and off a few tiomes, those 1.5mm
won't mean a thing..straight and answer and in good faith. You run the
risk of having the rings to close to the frame with the 108mm, and
then having to move the whole thing to the right to compensate.

I really doubt the guy will have physical problems with a BB spindle
1.5mm(.75mm on each side) different.

Quoted message said:

Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
and/or a torn meniscus.

Why take the risk?

James Thomson said:

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
be using?

I think you have your wires crossed.

A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink splined
spindle.

JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.

Quoted message said:

James Thomson

huh? I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious. It goes
without saying that if I change the type of bb, I will be changing the
cranks.

Carl Sundquist said:

How much clearance do you have between the crankarms and the chainstays?

It's hard to measure, but it looks like I have plenty of clearance to
go either way. .75mm on either side is really a very small difference.

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

jp,
Talk to Brent down at Phil Wood, he's the techie down there and very
knowledgeable. He also has the spec sheets on just about all the bottom
brackets and their compatibilities.
He can actually set the correct offset for you by his spec sheets.
You can either email him at: [email hidden]
or call him (408) 298-1540. Explain to him in detail or send him what
you wrote above.
You can tell him Tom Nakashima from San Jose, CA sent you.
-tom

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:38:14 -0700, Mark Hickey <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mecha397 said:

jp_nyc said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

I can't stress enough that this isn't something to fool around with. No
one here, in good faith, will give you a direct answer. What you need to do
is go to the best LBS you have access to - preferably one that uses an
approved fitting system.

Spindle length has a direct relation to the q-factor, and if you get it
wrong and you will soon have other concerns, like achilles tendonitis
and/or a torn meniscus.

Huh? Move the pedals by 1.5mm and your legs fall apart? Scary stuff.
Especially for all those riders who've never worried about it (not
knowiing they're destined for a wheelchair within the month). ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Dear Mark,

Until you can feel the fatal difference between wearing thick and thin
socks, I refuse to believe that your answer about bicycle fit is in
good faith!

But since you probably typed your insane denial on a keyboard whose
flip-down legs were not sanded to the correct height for your wrists,
it's likely that we won't have to suffer many more of your cruelly
skeptical posts . . .

Unless, of course, your crippling hand injuries force you to switch to
voice recognition software (the computer equivalent of a recumbent),
in which case you'll probably refuse to take voice lessons and end up
hoarsely denying the absolute importance of maintaining middle C
instead of C# when dictating.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Tom Nakashima said:

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

jp,
Talk to Brent down at Phil Wood, he's the techie down there and very
knowledgeable. He also has the spec sheets on just about all the bottom
brackets and their compatibilities.
He can actually set the correct offset for you by his spec sheets.
You can either email him at: [email hidden]
or call him (408) 298-1540. Explain to him in detail or send him what
you wrote above.
You can tell him Tom Nakashima from San Jose, CA sent you.
-tom

And don't forget that the BB can be moved side to side with the Phil
ring arangement.

Going with a 111 is a 1.5mm overshoot, which is nothing, IMO. -- Jay
Beattie.

"Jay Beattie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle is
109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm. Should I
go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will be using?

jp,
Talk to Brent down at Phil Wood, he's the techie down there and very
knowledgeable. He also has the spec sheets on just about all the bottom
brackets and their compatibilities.
He can actually set the correct offset for you by his spec sheets.
You can either email him at: [email hidden]
or call him (408) 298-1540. Explain to him in detail or send him what
you wrote above.
You can tell him Tom Nakashima from San Jose, CA sent you.
-tom

And don't forget that the BB can be moved side to side with the Phil
ring arangement.

Going with a 111 is a 1.5mm overshoot, which is nothing, IMO. -- Jay
Beattie.

Actually Phil Wood refers to the rings as Bottom Bracket Cartridge Cups,
but yes, the BB can be moved, actually quite a bit +/- 2.5mm.
Brent claims it's best to set the bb with two installation tools. He also
told me it's best to have him set the offset as close to oem specs, then
fine
tune it with the cups.

I got to see Brent do this in action. He has a press and mm off-sets as
his stops. Takes him less than a minute to do the off-set. Just make sure
you install the bb correctly and not reversed.
-tom

Funny, I emailed White Industries asking about BB size for their road
crank, and Lynette responded with a 113mm spindle length for a 47.5mm
chainline. What's odd is that I measured the chainline on my current
setup (Ultegra 109.5mm BB with FSA cranks) to be 47.5mm.

Is that possible? So this means that different cranks require
different size BB spindles in order to achieve the same chainline?

jp_nyc said:

Funny, I emailed White Industries asking about BB size for their road
crank, and Lynette responded with a 113mm spindle length for a 47.5mm
chainline. What's odd is that I measured the chainline on my current
setup (Ultegra 109.5mm BB with FSA cranks) to be 47.5mm.

Is that possible? So this means that different cranks require
different size BB spindles in order to achieve the same chainline?

In Peter's apt phrase, "BINGO"

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

In Peter's apt phrase, "BINGO"

I guess I learned something today. 🙂

jp_nyc said:

James Thomson said:

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
be using?

Quoted message said:

I think you have your wires crossed.

Quoted message said:

A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink splined
spindle.

Quoted message said:

JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.
James Thomson

huh? I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious. It goes
without saying that if I change the type of bb, I will be changing the
cranks.

In that case, the answer to the original question is, "It depends on
the cranks [you] will be using." There are a lot of different square-
taper standards for spindle length, and there are two slightly
different tapers as well--Campy and (some) Stronglight cranks require
ISO; the rest seem to use the Japanese standard.

"Andy M-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

jp_nyc said:

James Thomson said:

"jp_nyc" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am replacing my Ultegra bb with Phil Wood. The Ultegra spindle
is 109.5mm and the PW JIS is available only in 108mm or 111mm.
Should I go with the 108mm? Or does it depend on the cranks I will
be using?

Quoted message said:

I think you have your wires crossed.

Quoted message said:

A 109.5mm Ultegra bottom bracket uses Shimano's proprietary Octalink

splined

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spindle.

Quoted message said:

JIS bottom brackets use a square taper spindle.
James Thomson

huh? I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious. It goes
without saying that if I change the type of bb, I will be changing the
cranks.

Quoted message said:

In that case, the answer to the original question is, "It depends on
the cranks [you] will be using." There are a lot of different square-
taper standards for spindle length, and there are two slightly
different tapers as well--Campy and (some) Stronglight cranks require
ISO; the rest seem to use the Japanese standard.

According to the info on the Phil Wood web site only post 1994 Campy
cranks are ISO.

http://www.philwood.com/Pricing.pdf see page 12

Chas.