Ping: Larry

DaKitty said:

You around? Hove some interesting (well, for me)
sports/medical questions for you...

Why don't you write to him then?

[email hidden]

martin

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaKitty said:

You around? Hove some interesting (well, for me)
sports/medical questions for you...

Why don't you write to him then?

[email hidden]

martin

Because I want to talk to him in the forum, if he's around.
It's related to swimming, and there are few other people in
here that usually have something, other than complaints, to
contribute.

DaKitty said:

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaKitty said:

You around? Hove some interesting (well, for me)
sports/medical questions for you...

Why don't you write to him then?

[email hidden]

martin

Because I want to talk to him in the forum, if he's around.
It's related to swimming, and there are few other people in
here that usually have something, other than complaints, to
contribute.

Do you mean you want all of us to read about your personal
medical problems? I'm honored. I guess.

Then why don't you just post your questions?

martin

"Larry Weisenthal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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Hi...present and accounted for.

Temporarily have less time than usual to spend/diddle away
here, but will

do

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the best I can. What's on your mind?

- Larry

Hi ya! 🙂 How have you been... well, you can email me the
chitchat if you'd like 🙂

There's a guy in another group that's been making a lot
of arguments about VO2Max and how his swimming is bad
because he never swam as a kid, and therefore the blood
vessels that deliver the flow into his triceps are
underdeveloped as compared to an elite swimmer that had
been swimming as a kid.

I'm sure the fact that the guy didn't start swimming till
his late 20's is impacting him in one way or another (My
guess would be technique issues for the most part)

But this claim about the Vo2Max and the blood flow into his
triceps I find very hard to stomach. Then he added the fast
that he ran his theory by a veterinarian, and that the guy
told him it;'s possible [eyeroll]. I think he needs to
discuss this with an MD that can set him straight.

You interested in hearing more??? My guess is you may have
crossed paths with this guy already .... Ion Beza, from
San Diego.

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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DaKitty said:

"Martin W. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>You around? Hove some interesting (well, for me)
>sports/medical questions for

you...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

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Why don't you write to him then?

[email hidden]

martin

Because I want to talk to him in the forum, if he's
around. It's related to swimming, and there are few other
people in here that usually have something, other than
complaints, to contribute.

Do you mean you want all of us to read about your personal
medical problems? I'm honored. I guess.

What makes you think they're my personal, and what makes you
think they're problems. Awfully presumptuous, aren't you?
Then again, it's you, I should have know that.

"Larry Weisenthal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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There's a guy in another group that's been making a lot
of arguments

about

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VO2Max and how his swimming is bad because he never swam
as a kid, and therefore the blood vessels that deliver the
flow into his triceps are underdeveloped as compared to an
elite swimmer that had been swimming as a kid.<<

Topic near and dear to my heart. I made my bones on this
newsgroup circa

1995

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talking about something I termed "The Three Riddles of
Swimming," one of

which

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was why people who take up the sport as kids seem to have
a lifelong

advantage

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over those who take it up as adults. A related "riddle"
was why swimmers needed to train such insanely long
distances to swim such short races. I

agree

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with your friend that part of his problem is the
undercapillarization of

his

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triceps, lats, etc., relative to swimmers like Andy Miller-
Bray, who at

age 45

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made the USA swimming national open water team which
competed at world championships in Barcelona last summer.
In the mid-70s, when Andy was a teenager, he was swimming
probably a hundred thousand meters a week at

Mission

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Viejo, building up a rich capillary bed around muscle
fibers which were previously "white" and relatively
avascular.

Over the years, I've seen lots of old guys who were former
youth swimmers

get

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into the water after a long layoff. First couple of days,
they're not so tough. After a month, they are kicking some
serious butt. I think it's

much

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more related to muscle physiology than to technique.

I don't think that VO2 max enters into it all that much.
There isn't a

very

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close relationship at all between VO2 max and performance
in swimming

(unlike

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running and cycling and x-c skiing, where there is a
significant

relationship).

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It's more related to the "redness" of the swimming
muscles...how many
capillaries, how many mitochondria, how much myoglobin (all
things which

make

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red muscle red).

Have you ever noticed how you push off the wall for the
first of your

warm-up

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laps and you feel so strong and effortless for the first
50 or so, and

then it

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becomes more of a chore? I do. It's because of the
accumulation of

lactate,

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because of the relatively poor ability of my
undervascularized and overly

white

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swimming muscles to burn it up and/or transport it away.
This fall off in "ease" after the first 50 doesn't happen
in high level swimmers, because

they

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produce less lactate, burn it up faster, and carry it
away more

efficiently.

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All because of their capillaries, mitochondria, and
myoglobin.

It's the duck wing/turkey wing thing that I talk about
so often.

- Larry

Awesome description, may I quote you? there is a heated
discussion going on about this on the USMS bulletin board
(come by and read it if you have the inclination and
time) Several people wanted to hear from an MD that knows
about swimming.

So, another question... I hear in a lot of places that with
proper training regiment, a person (a grown up) can change a
good portion of their muscle content into red muscle (fast
twitch, do I understand that right?) Would that mean that a
person taking up swimming perhaps in their late twenties,
with proper training may still be able to build up this sort
of a muscle base? I read somewhere few months ago that our
body has the ability to rework the muscle structure based on
the level and type of muscle loading it is exposed to? I'm
heavily going from memory here, so please feel free to
correct me, or explain stuff if you see a misunderstanding.
I'll try to find that thread form few years ago as well.

oh, on another note... little brag... I got quoted in the
swim magazine, in a weight-loss article 😄 I've done pretty
well over last 7-8 months 🙂

My coach made a comment the other day, that if I stick with
it, I may be someone to contend with in couple of years. I
was surprised... We'll see. Don't want to get too excited.

originally it was thought that the muscle fiber types you
were born with were what you would die with, although
recently research has shifted towards certain fibers being
able to adapt due to stresses, and change their composition.
the overall conclusion being that mostly what you're born
with you'll die with, but with huge amounts of appropriate
work at the correct time in your life you can swing it your
preferred direction by a couple of
%...

so i don't know about "good portion". Yes, you can improve
the vascular density at the working muscle significantly,
but whether you can change the fibre types to actually have
that improved vascularity be of a great benefit is
questionable.

"DaKitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:32u8c.5179$1I5.3633@fed1read01...

Quoted message said:

So, another question... I hear in a lot of places that
with proper training regiment, a person (a grown up) can
change a good portion of their muscle content into red

muscle

Quoted message said:

(fast twitch, do I understand that right?) Would that mean
that a person taking up swimming perhaps in their late
twenties, with proper training

may

Quoted message said:

still be able to build up this sort of a muscle base? I
read somewhere few months ago that our body has the
ability to rework

the

Quoted message said:

muscle structure based on the level and type of muscle
loading it is

exposed

Quoted message said:

to? I'm heavily going from memory here, so please feel
free to correct

me,

Quoted message said:

or explain stuff if you see a misunderstanding. I'll try
to find that thread form few years ago as well.

oh, on another note... little brag... I got quoted in the
swim magazine,

in

Quoted message said:

a weight-loss article 😄 I've done pretty well over last
7-8 months 🙂

My coach made a comment the other day, that if I stick
with it, I may be someone to contend with in couple of
years. I was surprised... We'll see. Don't want to get too
excited.

just scraped this up from the ASCA website...easier trolling
through those articles than my ACSM journals..

"Type IIA fibers, which are convertible to slower twitch
during the heavy training period, when rested, not only
recover, but increase in number by up to 18%! Hence, heavy
workouts do not necessarily "kill the sprinter" but instead,
provide him with a boost of up to 18% more explosive fiber
types after taper. At last, a justification for the mature
college athlete to continue with those 12 week tapers that
we have all seen and marveled at in college. There appears
that there now IS a scientific justification for the results
we know exist. (So THAT's why they call it RE-search.!) "
(John Leonard, "It Caught my Ear at the US Open"

...but again its just one study, there are dozens of others
on the morphing of muscle fibers.