PING: Serene

Jude said:

Serene, I'm surious about your dietary habits here. I know a lot of
what you cook looks to be non-meat-based. I the thread about waffles,
you said you made vegan ones for yourself. Are you a vegetarian, vegan,
or health-foodie? Or just like to watch waht you eat?

I was a vegetarian for 20+ years, including two years as a vegan, but
the past three years, I've been eating whatever I feel like it. Since
I'm used to vegetarian food, that's most of what I eat, but I've
always cooked meat for my family (my ex-wife was the diner food queen
and wouldn't have gone for meat-free, for example), just now if I want
some of it, I eat it. (I always said that if I woke up one day wanting
a hamburger, I'd have one, and one day I woke up wanting sushi, so I
had it, and I've been eating a little bit of meat since then.)

Quoted message said:

I'm fascinated
becasue you post a huge variety of interesting ideas.

Thanks!

Quoted message said:

It sounds like
you eat a broad variety of things, or perhaps you just cook them for
your family members. But I'm pretty sure I've seen you post about
cooking all sorts of meaty stuff as well.

Two of my partners (the one I don't live with, and the one who's here
part-time) are huge meat-eaters, so I cook meat for them. The partner
I live with will eat whatever I cook, and he likes the cheapness and
health value of my normal vegetarian fare, so that's what we eat most
of the time. Tonight, we're having spaghetti with TVP bolognese,
along with steamed zucchini and roasted beets. (The beets were an
impulse buy -- I love them so much that when I saw they were 69 cents
a pound already trimmed, I grabbed up a bag of them.)

Quoted message said:

Me, I'm about 95% vegetarian, although many here would refuse to hear
that becasue I do eat fish once or twice a month.

Yeah. I would argue with you if you said "I'm vegetarian, but I
sometimes eat fish," but not "I'm mostly vegetarian, but I sometimes
eat fish." There's a difference between your wording and those folks
who say they're vegetarians but eat chicken every day (not a
hypothetical example -- it was a tussle I had with an ex who was a
vegetarian-according-to-him when we met, and turned out to eat poultry
almost every meal.)

Quoted message said:

(Whatever - how I
choose to label myself is nobody's business and I'd rather not start
that one again around here!) I eat fish mostly for the convenience of
others, restaurant meals, visiting the folks, eating at my BF's moms
house without needing to be catered too all that much, etc; I have many
reasos fr the diet I choose, but that's a different thread.

But my true preference is for vegetarian meals that are healthy and
heavy on whole grains, veggies, fruits. Also lots of eggs and cheeses.
Sounds like maybe I shuld be eating at your house sometimes!

Come on over! :-)

Gotcha. Sounds like it works out well for you. Mine's a little
different - I don't cook meat, although my BF eats it. He's always
quite happy with whatever I'm making and has no complaints about most
anything I cook. Never complains about the lack of meat.

BUT, he can't stand tofu, tempeh, TVP, so our compromise is no meat, no
meat substitutes. If he wants meat, I really don't like the smell of it
cooking in the house (especially beef, or bacon! Strong smells!), so
either I point him towards the grill outside and he cooks up steak,
chicken or burgers, or he buys lunch meats or the cold, precooked
chicken to top salads.

Other than that, we go out if he wants meat - good deal for me! But he
thinks I'm a great cook and loves to invite people over for dinner.
After the meal, he'll ask them, "Did you miss the meat?" and they
usually say, oh yeah, no meat..........

My daughter is an interesting case. She was raised as a fish-eating
mostly vegetarian, like me. Her dad (who left me when I was preg so has
never been a major player in her life) has been trying to get her to
eat meat since she was tiny. I';ve always held the belief that I
made my choices for a reason and when she is old enough, she will be
able to maker her choices as well, but for now (she's 9), I'm the cook
at home, so when we're home she's mostly veg. Over the last year or 2,
she's been experimenting with meat, as I knew she would. She first got
interested in 'kid meats' like chicken fingers and pepperoni. But since
I met my BF 1 1/2 years ago, she likes to taste his chicken sandiwches
and steaks. However, this New Years, she made a resolution to go
vegetarian again, becasue when she was sharing his steak, they gotinto
a conversation about meat 'juice' being blood, and it turned her off
meat again. It will be interesting to see what diet she chooses when
she grows up!

As far as my label, I call myslef a vegetarian, becasue that's a heck
of a lot easier than a shpiel about how I don't eat meat, pountry, or
meat by-products, but I will eat fish, though I'd rather not, and what
are the meatless offerings that I can have? That's too much info ......
I simply say "vegetarian" becasue that's what I want to eat.

I gave up meat and pountry 17 years ago and haven't ever looked back.
I'm thinking that if the BF and I stay together, I might end up eating
chicken again eventually, since that's his meat of choice and it might
make things a little easier, but I can't bring myself to take a bite. I
really don't see myself going back.

So, dinner. Am I right that you live somewhere on the west coast? I'll
hafta factor in the time zones when I leave Virginia for the long drive
to your house. Let's see, dinner maybe Saturday? I should be there in
time! =)

Jude said:

So, dinner. Am I right that you live somewhere on the west coast? I'll
hafta factor in the time zones when I leave Virginia for the long drive
to your house. Let's see, dinner maybe Saturday? I should be there in
time! =)

We're a few blocks from the Oakland-Berkeley border. Make sure you
take the 580 coming in so you can see the way-cool windmill farms. :-)

Serene

serene said:

I was a vegetarian for 20+ years, including two years as a vegan, but
the past three years, I've been eating whatever I feel like it. Since
I'm used to vegetarian food, that's most of what I eat, but I've
always cooked meat for my family (my ex-wife was the diner food queen
and wouldn't have gone for meat-free, for example), just now if I want
some of it, I eat it. (I always said that if I woke up one day wanting
a hamburger, I'd have one, and one day I woke up wanting sushi, so I
had it, and I've been eating a little bit of meat since then.)

The distinction between vegetarian and vegan has always interested me.
AFAIK, a vegan does not eat any meat or meat by-products, eggs, or wear
leather shoes etc. mainly because they don't believe in harming animals.
Is this the case? (I am not talking food allergies or health-related
issues here).

I have always believed that people should eat what they like and never
be "forced" to eat something that they don't like ... Our toddler seems
to prefer vegetables and fruit at the moment, but she will eat a little
fish, chicken and steak occasionally. (We are big meat and fish eaters
and she likes to try whatever we are eating). However, if she chooses to
become a vegetarian when she is older that's her choice.
--
Cheers
Cathy(xyz)

cathyxyz said:

serene said:

I was a vegetarian for 20+ years, including two years as a vegan, but
the past three years, I've been eating whatever I feel like it. Since
I'm used to vegetarian food, that's most of what I eat, but I've
always cooked meat for my family (my ex-wife was the diner food queen
and wouldn't have gone for meat-free, for example), just now if I want
some of it, I eat it. (I always said that if I woke up one day wanting
a hamburger, I'd have one, and one day I woke up wanting sushi, so I
had it, and I've been eating a little bit of meat since then.)

The distinction between vegetarian and vegan has always interested me.
AFAIK, a vegan does not eat any meat or meat by-products, eggs, or wear
leather shoes etc. mainly because they don't believe in harming animals.
Is this the case? (I am not talking food allergies or health-related
issues here).

Some vegans do it for animal-welfare reasons. That was only a part of
it for me. Health, environmental, and religious reasons were the other
parts of it for me. However, some people are dietarily vegan, but
still wear leather, etc.

Quoted message said:

I have always believed that people should eat what they like and never
be "forced" to eat something that they don't like ... Our toddler seems
to prefer vegetables and fruit at the moment, but she will eat a little
fish, chicken and steak occasionally. (We are big meat and fish eaters
and she likes to try whatever we are eating). However, if she chooses to
become a vegetarian when she is older that's her choice.

Yeah, I never forced my kids to eat anything -- I just offered them
healthful foods and let them choose for myself. I have had my own
tastes since childhood, why shouldn't they?

serene

serene said:

Some vegans do it for animal-welfare reasons. That was only a part of
it for me. Health, environmental, and religious reasons were the other
parts of it for me. However, some people are dietarily vegan, but
still wear leather, etc.

I see. I have a friend who decided to give up eating meat in his
thirties. (He still eats fish, though). He said he just got tired of
the effect (heatlh-wise) that it had on him, especially red meat, and
he just stopped eating it. Makes sense to me.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I never forced my kids to eat anything -- I just offered them
healthful foods and let them choose for myself. I have had my own
tastes since childhood, why shouldn't they?

Exactly.

Cheers
Cathy(xyz)

cathyxyz said:

The distinction between vegetarian and vegan has always interested me.
AFAIK, a vegan does not eat any meat or meat by-products, eggs, or wear
leather shoes etc. mainly because they don't believe in harming animals.
Is this the case? (I am not talking food allergies or health-related
issues here).

Not always. People can have a vegan diet, a vegan lifestyle, or both.
It can be for qany reason - health, animal welfare, religion, etc.

Quoted message said:

I have always believed that people should eat what they like and never
be "forced" to eat something that they don't like ... Our toddler seems
to prefer vegetables and fruit at the moment, but she will eat a little
fish, chicken and steak occasionally. (We are big meat and fish eaters
and she likes to try whatever we are eating). However, if she chooses to
become a vegetarian when she is older that's her choice.

Ditto here. I do not force my dietary habits on my son (age 2). I
give him everything to try whether or not I eat it (some things DH
eats, I do not). I figure it is his body and his choice.

-L.

-L. said:

Ditto here. I do not force my dietary habits on my son (age 2). I
give him everything to try whether or not I eat it (some things DH
eats, I do not). I figure it is his body and his choice.

-L.

Yup. Thing is, she eats better on some days than others. She likes to
eat raw veggies while I am preparing them - carrots, green peppers,
tomatoes, peas etc. but won't always eat when we do - unless we eat
outside and have a braai (BBQ) - then she wants to try *everything* 😉
But she is happy and healthy so I have given up worrying that "she
doesn't eat enough". She also likes to "help" me to cook - I hope it
lasts! My eldest son likes to cook - his girlfriend was joking the other
day that he does most of the cooking in their house...
--
Cheers
Cathy(xyz)

In article said:

Some vegans do it for animal-welfare reasons. That was only a part of
it for me. Health, environmental, and religious reasons were the other
parts of it for me. However, some people are dietarily vegan, but
still wear leather, etc.

It's amazing how many vegetables suffer "for animal-welfare reasons".

Have you seen how some of them are raised? Hundreds of the poor
little buggers born crowded into a little bloody plastic box until,
shortly after birth, they are scoffed down while still alive.
So much individual life lost in a single mouthful of sprouts. :-(

Cheers, Phred.

--
[email hidden]

Phred said:

It's amazing how many vegetables suffer "for animal-welfare reasons".

Have you seen how some of them are raised? Hundreds of the poor
little buggers born crowded into a little bloody plastic box until,
shortly after birth, they are scoffed down while still alive.
So much individual life lost in a single mouthful of sprouts. :-(

LOL. Couldn't help laughing at this one - thanks Phred.

Cheers
Cathy(xyz)

cathyxyz said:

The distinction between vegetarian and vegan has always interested me.
AFAIK, a vegan does not eat any meat or meat by-products, eggs, or wear
leather shoes etc. mainly because they don't believe in harming animals.
Is this the case? (I am not talking food allergies or health-related
issues here).

vegans often do not eat honey, or use products with beeswax. No dairy,
either. Or wool clothing.

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

sarah bennett said:

vegans often do not eat honey, or use products with beeswax. No dairy,
either. Or wool clothing.

No offence, guys, but I think I am not cut out to be vegan. I like
honey and meat and eggs and and and.... too much. But if, for whatever
reason, you choose to be, so be it!

Cheers
Cathy(xyz)

cathyxyz said:

I have always believed that people should eat what they like and never
be "forced" to eat something that they don't like ... Our toddler seems
to prefer vegetables and fruit at the moment, but she will eat a little
fish, chicken and steak occasionally. (We are big meat and fish eaters
and she likes to try whatever we are eating). However, if she chooses to
become a vegetarian when she is older that's her choice.

How old is older? When she's an adult. My daughter, 19, is a vegetarian
of a year. She eats fish, so I guess she's a pescatarian or something.
It's annoying to me, but I don't let her know, and I support her by
consideration when I cook.

Toddlers will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount
that their body's craving, if given the opportunity. They aren't warped
by other influences that make us make more creative choices, yet. As we
get older, we fight the brainwashing effects of media, and the effects
of rewards by sweets, or the starving children in other lands
guilt-trips, etc. Later we eat to socialize, when we're lonely, to get
comfort (comfort foods), when stimulated with drugs or alcohol, and for
all sorts of weird reasons and in American-sized portions. Food becomes
seductive instead of a necessity.

Karen

Karen said:

Toddlers will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount
that their body's craving, if given the opportunity. They aren't warped
by other influences that make us make more creative choices, yet. [snip]

Sorry, but that's romanticized twaddle. Toddlers have no inherited
body of knowledge that enables them to choose what is healthy or not.
Nor is there any evidence that the omnivorous species [censored] sapiens
knows, without learning, what is good for its body. "In the right
amount" means whenever the hunger is satisfied. -aem

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but that's romanticized twaddle. Toddlers have no inherited
body of knowledge that enables them to choose what is healthy or not.
Nor is there any evidence that the omnivorous species [censored] sapiens
knows, without learning, what is good for its body. "In the right
amount" means whenever the hunger is satisfied. -aem

I've witnessed toddlers shoving all manner of disgusting matter in
their mouths in search of something that pleases the taste buds.
How do you think humanity has learned which foods are edible and which
ones' aren't... through trial and error.
(I have a vague recollection of this very subject having been
discussed in the not-too-distant past.) Kev

aem said:

Karen said:

Toddlers will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount
that their body's craving, if given the opportunity. They aren't warped
by other influences that make us make more creative choices, yet. [snip]

Sorry, but that's romanticized twaddle. Toddlers have no inherited
body of knowledge that enables them to choose what is healthy or not.

That is correct, although what she said, I have observed: "Toddlers
will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount that their
body's craving, if given the opportunity." I have seen DS eat meat
with wild abandon one day, and something else (broccoli, noodles,
whatever) the next. I can't come up with any explanation other than he
inherently knows what he needs, as he likes every food I give him.
<shrug>

Quoted message said:

Nor is there any evidence that the omnivorous species [censored] sapiens
knows, without learning, what is good for its body.

I know when I need to eat more meat and when I need more vegetables in
my diet, simply by the way I feel. I think it is an inate sense.

-L.

In article <[email hidden]>,

-L. said:

aem said:

Karen said:

Toddlers will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount
that their body's craving, if given the opportunity. They aren't warped
by other influences that make us make more creative choices, yet. [snip]

Sorry, but that's romanticized twaddle. Toddlers have no inherited
body of knowledge that enables them to choose what is healthy or not.

That is correct, although what she said, I have observed: "Toddlers
will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount that their
body's craving, if given the opportunity."

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nor is there any evidence that the omnivorous species [censored] sapiens
knows, without learning, what is good for its body.

I know when I need to eat more meat and when I need more vegetables in
my diet, simply by the way I feel. I think it is an inate sense.

Maybe some humans aren't this smart, but rats are. They have done
studies on rats, and they know to eat foods with nutrients that they are
short on.

We tried to put as few restrictions as possible on the foods our kids
ate. We let them choose what they wanted. Of course, candy isn't part
of this.

--
Dan Abel
[email hidden]
Petaluma, California, USA

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Abel said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

-L. said:

Quoted message said:

aem wrote:
Karen wrote:
> Toddlers will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount
> that their body's craving, if given the opportunity. They aren't warped
> by other influences that make us make more creative choices, yet.
> [snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but that's romanticized twaddle. Toddlers have no inherited
body of knowledge that enables them to choose what is healthy or not.

That is correct, although what she said, I have observed: "Toddlers
will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount that their
body's craving, if given the opportunity."
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Nor is there any evidence that the omnivorous species [censored] sapiens
knows, without learning, what is good for its body.

I know when I need to eat more meat and when I need more vegetables in
my diet, simply by the way I feel. I think it is an inate sense.

Maybe some humans aren't this smart, but rats are. They have done
studies on rats, and they know to eat foods with nutrients that they are
short on.

We tried to put as few restrictions as possible on the foods our kids
ate. We let them choose what they wanted. Of course, candy isn't part
of this.

I remember when I was in my intro psych class way back before time began
there was an account of what they called "infant cafeteria" studies that
purported to show that infants would do just fine if given the chance.
Google led me to the following, which I find interesting and somewhat
relevant to the present discussion.
------------------------------------------------
procedings of fhe nutrition Society (1991) 50, 107-1 13
Development of food choice during infancy
BY PETER WRIGHT
Department of Psychology, University of Edinburgh, 7 George Square,
Edinburgh EH8 9JZ

The widely quoted cafeteria studies of Clara Davis (1928, 1939) have
been interpreted by health professionals to mean that given a wide
variety of choices, children will instinctively select and consume a
well-balanced diet. In a reappraisal of her work, Story & Brown (1987)
argue that this essential misinterpretation may lead to an overly
relaxed attitude towards poor food habits and contribute towards the
development of nutritional problems in children. As Davis (1928, 1939)
only offered infants a selection of nutritious and unsweetened foods,
from which the children adequately self-selected. it is unknown whether
a balanced diet would have been selected had less wholesome foods such
as ice-cream, jelly, and cakes etc. been also available. Indeed, studies
with that other well-known omnivore, the laboratory rat, in similar
cafeteria-style experiments, indicate that whereas body-weight is
satisfactorily regulated with ad fib. access to a conventional
laboratory chow diet, the addition of highly palatable supermarket
foods, leads to massive obesity (Sclafani & Springer, 1976). Story &
Brown (1987) somewhat optimistically advise limiting the diet of young
children to a Œvariety of fresh and frozen vegetables and legumes, dairy
products, fresh and unsweetened fruits and fruit juices, breads, pastas,
rice, cereals and other grain products and lean meats.Œ
------------------------------------------------

I'll have another bowl of ice cream, please.

Herr Professor Dave W. (retired)

--
Living in the Ozarks
For email, edu will do.

Regardless of what doesn't happen, there's always someone who knew it wouldn't.
R. Henry

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Abel said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

-L. said:

Quoted message said:

aem wrote:
Karen wrote:
> Toddlers will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount
> that their body's craving, if given the opportunity. They aren't warped
> by other influences that make us make more creative choices, yet.
> [snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but that's romanticized twaddle. Toddlers have no inherited
body of knowledge that enables them to choose what is healthy or not.

That is correct, although what she said, I have observed: "Toddlers
will often choose the healthy food and in the right amount that their
body's craving, if given the opportunity."
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Nor is there any evidence that the omnivorous species [censored] sapiens
knows, without learning, what is good for its body.

I know when I need to eat more meat and when I need more vegetables in
my diet, simply by the way I feel. I think it is an inate sense.

Maybe some humans aren't this smart, but rats are. They have done
studies on rats, and they know to eat foods with nutrients that they are
short on.

We tried to put as few restrictions as possible on the foods our kids
ate. We let them choose what they wanted. Of course, candy isn't part
of this.

I remember when I was in my intro psych class way back before time began
there was an account of what they called "infant cafeteria" studies that
purported to show that infants would do just fine if given the chance.
Google led me to the following, which I find interesting and somewhat
relevant to the present discussion.
------------------------------------------------
procedings of fhe nutrition Society (1991) 50, 107-1 13
Development of food choice during infancy
BY PETER WRIGHT
Department of Psychology, University of Edinburgh, 7 George Square,
Edinburgh EH8 9JZ

The widely quoted cafeteria studies of Clara Davis (1928, 1939) have
been interpreted by health professionals to mean that given a wide
variety of choices, children will instinctively select and consume a
well-balanced diet. In a reappraisal of her work, Story & Brown (1987)
argue that this essential misinterpretation may lead to an overly
relaxed attitude towards poor food habits and contribute towards the
development of nutritional problems in children. As Davis (1928, 1939)
only offered infants a selection of nutritious and unsweetened foods,
from which the children adequately self-selected. it is unknown whether
a balanced diet would have been selected had less wholesome foods such
as ice-cream, jelly, and cakes etc. been also available. Indeed, studies
with that other well-known omnivore, the laboratory rat, in similar
cafeteria-style experiments, indicate that whereas body-weight is
satisfactorily regulated with ad fib. access to a conventional
laboratory chow diet, the addition of highly palatable supermarket
foods, leads to massive obesity (Sclafani & Springer, 1976). Story &
Brown (1987) somewhat optimistically advise limiting the diet of young
children to a Œvariety of fresh and frozen vegetables and legumes, dairy
products, fresh and unsweetened fruits and fruit juices, breads, pastas,
rice, cereals and other grain products and lean meats.Œ
------------------------------------------------

I'll have another bowl of ice cream, please.

Herr Professor Dave W. (retired)

--
Living in the Ozarks
For email, edu will do.

Regardless of what doesn't happen, there's always someone who knew it wouldn't.
R. Henry