Planning next year's training, 5k programs.

Dot dot.h@#duh?att.net said:

Christos Dimitrakakis said:

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:53:25 +0000, Dot wrote:

Quoted message said:

The mixing is nice. But another question is where to focus the effort each
week. Let's say I run thrice, each time at different speeds. If I were
to run for longer than usual on any speed, I will need some extra
recovery. So sometimes I run a bit more/harder on my fast runs, sometimes
I push my long runs. I don't know if there exists a good method for
choosing which workouts to focus on though.

I just do what works and monitor my efforts and recovery. Over time,
you'll find that you need less recovery for any particular workout, so
you can lengthen it or run more frequently or whatever.

It is a bit of a hit and miss. Today I am still sore [plantar fascia
and soleus] after my 5k fast workout three days ago, while I had
recovered immediately the last two times I did it.

Quoted message said:

The advantage of a larger base and more frequent running is that my
recovery times decreased, and I can do more kinds of workouts in a
shorter time span so I can build on the conditioning from that
particular type of workout.

Hm, that is interesting.

Quoted message said:

But my priorities are longer trail races, and something I've been
building toward for 5+ yrs.

Aaah, I have some catching up to do.

Quoted message said:

and easy, and cycle through various workouts for "speed" - like tempo,
fartleks, whatever. But a lot will depend on your frequency of running.

Thanks, I'll see how much I up the frequency now.. hoping to get it up
to 4/week.

Christos Dimitrakakis said:

None of the above. Simply looking at my mileage and times, it seems as
though there's a discrepancy (15mpw is the minimum beginner
recommendation - the guys that finish a 5k under 25min are supposed to be
doing 25-50 miles per week, which is really much more than anything
I've done).

It seems these schedules have this "if you run pace X, you should run mileage Y".
This sort of mindset is somewhat wrong headed. The mileage you run should be
determined by how much time you are willing to devote to running, and how much
you want to improve.

How fast you end up running depends on a combination of many factors -- natural
ability, age, gender, and how much you devote to running. Some people can race at
under 6 minutes a mile with very little training. Some need to train quite hard to
break 7 minutes a mile.

I agree with Chucky that you could probably manage 15 miles a week quite easily
(you could just start doing that with no ramp up), and you could probably
gradually ramp up to much more.

If you're doing less than 15 miles per week, there's no need to overthink it and
try to "follow a program". If you want to get faster, the best way to do that is
just run more (mostly increase frequency in your case).

Cheers,
--
Elflord

Christos Dimitrakakis said:

As you may or may not know, I've been running for about a year
consistently. Right now I run about 10-20km per week, mostly on steep
hills. My longest runs are hilly around 10k; I do them in around 1h20m.
And I can do a 5k on the flat in around 23 minutes it seems. I sometimes
do easy runs mixed with fast-paced bursts, either on the flat or moderate
downhills. I am really happy with that kind of training and I wish I could
continue it.

However soon I will be moving to an extremely flat place and I was looking
for ideas about what to do with my training. One idea was to do training
for middle distance. So, I looked at www.coolrunning.com's schedules.

Keep the *DURATION* of your training runs the same. You will probably get more
distance for the training time, but the training effect should be very similar.

Running more mileage will greatly improve your race times, but requires more
commitment in terms of time and energy. So you have to decide whether you want
to do that.

As mentioned in other posts, you almost certainly are capable of running those
extra miles if you want to do that.

Cheers,
--
Elflord

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
....

Quoted message said:

- If you're like the ADD wreck.ultra-runners who're always talking
about their total lack of motivation to run a single stride unless
immersed in the most unspoiled jaw-dropping natural scenery on the
face of the earth, and if your running is important to you, cancel
your move!

Good advice all, especially this last one. And it's a serious consideration
if one has a choice. The times that I lived in places without trails I
mostly biked or sometimes ran roads as dreaded workouts, instead of the
recreation that running is when I can run real trails frequently. Similar to
treadmill running, I can only stand shorter runs on roads, but find me a
loop trail through some forest, better if it has twists and turns and is
somewhat rough, and I will gladly run for hours.

-Tony

Quoted message said:

It seems these schedules have this "if you run pace X, you should run mileage Y".
This sort of mindset is somewhat wrong headed. The mileage you run should be
determined by how much time you are willing to devote to running, and how much
you want to improve.

Ah, this seems to be making much more sense as a guideline.

Quoted message said:

If you're doing less than 15 miles per week, there's no need to overthink it and
try to "follow a program". If you want to get faster, the best way to do that is
just run more (mostly increase frequency in your case).

I will probably be doing so..
Cheers,
Christos

Tony S. said:

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
...

Quoted message said:

- If you're like the ADD wreck.ultra-runners who're always talking
about their total lack of motivation to run a single stride unless
immersed in the most unspoiled jaw-dropping natural scenery on the
face of the earth, and if your running is important to you, cancel
your move!

Good advice all, especially this last one. And it's a serious consideration
if one has a choice. The times that I lived in places without trails I
mostly biked or sometimes ran roads as dreaded workouts, instead of the
recreation that running is when I can run real trails frequently. Similar to
treadmill running, I can only stand shorter runs on roads, but find me a
loop trail through some forest, better if it has twists and turns and is
somewhat rough, and I will gladly run for hours.

-Tony

There is actually a park with 20km of marked (mostly paved, sadly)
trails - or I could jump around in the muddy leaves. There are even
some slight inclines there at places, so it's not too bad. The paved
trails are annoying though.

"Christos Dimitrakakis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony S. said:

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...
...

Quoted message said:

- If you're like the ADD wreck.ultra-runners who're always talking
about their total lack of motivation to run a single stride unless
immersed in the most unspoiled jaw-dropping natural scenery on the
face of the earth, and if your running is important to you, cancel
your move!

Good advice all, especially this last one. And it's a serious
consideration
if one has a choice. The times that I lived in places without trails I
mostly biked or sometimes ran roads as dreaded workouts, instead of the
recreation that running is when I can run real trails frequently. Similar
to
treadmill running, I can only stand shorter runs on roads, but find me a
loop trail through some forest, better if it has twists and turns and is
somewhat rough, and I will gladly run for hours.

-Tony

There is actually a park with 20km of marked (mostly paved, sadly)
trails - or I could jump around in the muddy leaves. There are even
some slight inclines there at places, so it's not too bad. The paved
trails are annoying though.

Yea, paving is done for ease of maintenance and bike riders, I suppose, by
politicians who don't get it. Chances are though there are side trails, but
if it's in a city park not sure what you'll find in those woods. In more
wild areas networks of game trails can be ok also if you're used to running
rough stuff and have time to explore and memorize. If it's very muddy though
I'd skip it. A while back Lance was trying to get me to run the 'ugly
mudder' or some race like that, and I tried to explain that not all trails
are created equal.

-T