Police Statistics affecting Cycling



R

Rod King

Guest
Hi

I regularly attend Warrington Police Forum representing both Warrington
Cycle Campaign and Living Streets. Crime figures are presented ar each
quarterly meeting. Usually the sole reference to accident statistics is the
KSI for the quarter compared to the previous year. As this normally is less
than 100 any figures are statistically meaningless due to the low numbers
reported.

For several sessions I have been pointing out that more people meet violent
deaths on the roads than by murder, and more people are greviously harmed
bodily by vehicles than by fist, knives, boots, etc. Therefore road
accidents should not figure so low on police reporting and crime statistics.

Perhaps as a comparison it is useful to note that whilst in the past 3 years
100 British service men have been killed in Iraq, over 10,000 British
citizens have been killed by vehicles on our roads!!! In fact more British
people have been killed on British pavements in that time than in Iraq.

Finally, the Police Forum Chairman has agreed with my perspective and asked
me exactly what figures I would like reporting.

I am favouring two sets of statistics.

The first should indicate the total amount of loss to society as a result of
road accidents. In a recent Warrington Borough Council report it indicated
that the total cost of road collisions in Cheshire in 2002 was £254M. This
takes the total range of accidents and proportions a cost based upon the
severity of the accident, loss of life etc. Blunt it is, but it does put a
monetary cost on accidents and also a value on their avoidance for society.

The second should show the amount of low level crime that does not
necessarily result in an accident but does consitute anti-social and
threatening behaviour of the sort that persuades parents and adults not to
cycle on the roads. This would therfore be related to speeding levels (not
necessarily prosecutions), mobile phone usage, other traffic violations and
minor collisions.


Only through tracking both the cost to society in real monetary terms and
the damage that is done to enabling people to have a choice of cycling or
walking instead of the car, can we guage the period on period improvement in
management of and discipline on our roads.


Before asking for particular statistics from the Police Forum, I would like
to canvas ideas from other cycle campaigners as to whether they have
identified any better statistics to ask for, or whether there is a standard
that we should be looking to report on throughout the country.

I look forward to any responses or debate on what I consider to be a very
important area for developing policy.

Many thanks


Rod King

Warrington Cycle Campaign
Warrington Living Streets
 
Rod King wrote:
> Hi


Hi.

> I regularly attend Warrington Police Forum representing both Warrington
> Cycle Campaign and Living Streets

[...]
> For several sessions I have been pointing out that more people meet violent
> deaths on the roads than by murder, and more people are greviously harmed
> bodily by vehicles than by fist, knives, boots, etc.


And, in fact, even /more/ are killed and injured in the home.

> Therefore road
> accidents should not figure so low on police reporting and crime statistics.


How many of the 'accidents' /are/ as a result of crimes? How many of
those killed or injured were not actually themselves responsible for the
'accident'?

> Perhaps as a comparison it is useful to note that whilst in the past 3 years
> 100 British service men have been killed in Iraq, over 10,000 British
> citizens have been killed by vehicles on our roads!!!


And even more in household accidents!!!!

> In fact more British
> people have been killed on British pavements in that time than in Iraq.


And, in one year alone (2002/2003) 182 were killed in occupational
injuries as employees.

[...]

--
Matt B
 
I cycle to work along roads with a 30mph speed limit. Whilst I cannot
gauge speed accurately, I am sure I am passed by several vehicles a
day doing 50% above the limit. If this is not considered to be
dangerous, then the speed limit is set too low. Two or three years
ago, our council spent a lot of money narrowing the main road along
which I cycle in order to create off-road cycle lanes. It would have
been much cheaper, and equally effective in terms of road safety, to
enforce the widely flouted speed limit. I am afraid that police
tolerate speeding because there is such a vocal anti-speed camera
lobby. I would love to see a more vocal anti-speeding lobby.

On Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:07:45 -0000, "Rod King"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I look forward to any responses or debate on what I consider to be a very
>important area for developing policy.
>


--
Graham Steel: [email protected]
Web: http://www.steelworks.org.uk
 
Graham,

I'm sure most cyclists would like to see a better enforcement of
traffic laws. Personally; I'd love to see proper policing of mobile
phone use, traffic light abuse and speeding for *all* road users. I get
more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car; but I certainly
see more cars do it...

M.
 
Rod King wrote:
> The first should indicate the total amount of loss to society as a resultof
> road accidents. In a recent Warrington Borough Council report it indicated
> that the total cost of road collisions in Cheshire in 2002 was £254M. This
> takes the total range of accidents and proportions a cost based upon the
> severity of the accident, loss of life etc. Blunt it is, but it does put a
> monetary cost on accidents and also a value on their avoidance for society.


The figure I've seen for the cost in emergency services per road-kill
is £1M, but I don't know how that is broken down (emergency services,
mopping up the pools of blood, etc.)
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
(Ambrose Nankivell) wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
> > in message <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:
> >
> >> I get
> >> more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car;

> >
> > Purely as a matter of interest, why do you think that is?

>
> I find it annoying because they're making *me* a target.


Exactly. In two ways. First, being tarred with the same brush. Second, I
have a real fear of being t-boned by another cyclist shooting the lights.

Last week I was verbally abused (in separate incidents) by a motorist and
a cabbie merely for being on a bicycle and not cycling in the door zone.
The cabbie had a lot to say about how 'you people' ignore the rules,
along with some choice observations as to my lineage.
 
Terry wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> (Ambrose Nankivell) wrote:
>
>> Simon Brooke wrote:
>>> in message <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:
>>>
>>>> I get
>>>> more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car;
>>>
>>> Purely as a matter of interest, why do you think that is?

>>
>> I find it annoying because they're making *me* a target.

>
> Exactly. In two ways. First, being tarred with the same brush.
> Second, I have a real fear of being t-boned by another cyclist
> shooting the lights.



A red-light jumping cyclist almost came a cropper in Barnes last Wednesday
evening at about 930, we were heading from the river alongside the London
wetland centre and the four of us on mobs went at considerable speed through
the green light and almost tee boned a roadie making his way across the
junction against the red light. I think he got a bit of a shock! Perhaps it
will teach him a lesson!

pk
 
Terry wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Ambrose Nankivell) wrote:
>
>> Simon Brooke wrote:
>>> in message
>>> <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:
>>>
>>>> I get
>>>> more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car;
>>>
>>> Purely as a matter of interest, why do you think that is?

>>
>> I find it annoying because they're making *me* a target.

>
> Exactly. In two ways. First, being tarred with the same brush.
> Second, I have a real fear of being t-boned by another cyclist
> shooting the lights.
>
> Last week I was verbally abused (in separate incidents) by a
> motorist and a cabbie merely for being on a bicycle and not
> cycling in the door zone. The cabbie had a lot to say about
> how 'you people' ignore the rules, along with some choice
> observations as to my lineage.


If drivers could be trusted to obey the rules they wouldn't have to
build speed humps and speed cameras.
--
Cheers
the.Mark
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (the.Mark) wrote:

> Terry wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Ambrose Nankivell) wrote:
> >
> >> Simon Brooke wrote:
> >>> in message
> >>> <[email protected]>,
> >>> [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I get more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car;
> >>>
> >>> Purely as a matter of interest, why do you think that is?
> >>
> >> I find it annoying because they're making *me* a target.

> >
> > Exactly. In two ways. First, being tarred with the same brush.
> > Second, I have a real fear of being t-boned by another cyclist
> > shooting the lights.
> >
> > Last week I was verbally abused (in separate incidents) by a
> > motorist and a cabbie merely for being on a bicycle and not
> > cycling in the door zone. The cabbie had a lot to say about
> > how 'you people' ignore the rules, along with some choice
> > observations as to my lineage.

>
> If drivers could be trusted to obey the rules they wouldn't have to
> build speed humps and speed cameras.


Speed humps and cameras don't reduce my risk of being t-boned by a fellow
cyclist running a red light.
 
Matt B wrote:
> Rod King wrote:
> > Hi

>
> Hi.
>
> > I regularly attend Warrington Police Forum representing both Warrington
> > Cycle Campaign and Living Streets

> [...]
> > For several sessions I have been pointing out that more people meet violent
> > deaths on the roads than by murder, and more people are greviously harmed
> > bodily by vehicles than by fist, knives, boots, etc.

>
> And, in fact, even /more/ are killed and injured in the home.


But not usually by other people, as they are on the roads.

Doug.
 
Terry <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (the.Mark) wrote:


>> Terry wrote:
>> > In article <[email protected]>,
>> > [email protected] (Ambrose Nankivell) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> >>> in message
>> >>> <[email protected]>,
>> >>> [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I get more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car;
>> >>>
>> >>> Purely as a matter of interest, why do you think that is?
>> >>
>> >> I find it annoying because they're making *me* a target.
>> >
>> > Exactly. In two ways. First, being tarred with the same brush.
>> > Second, I have a real fear of being t-boned by another cyclist
>> > shooting the lights.
>> >
>> > Last week I was verbally abused (in separate incidents) by a
>> > motorist and a cabbie merely for being on a bicycle and not
>> > cycling in the door zone. The cabbie had a lot to say about
>> > how 'you people' ignore the rules, along with some choice
>> > observations as to my lineage.

>>
>> If drivers could be trusted to obey the rules they wouldn't have to
>> build speed humps and speed cameras.


> Speed humps and cameras don't reduce my risk of being t-boned by a fellow
> cyclist running a red light.


Obviously if you assume that nobody runs a red light, sooner or later
you're going to collide with someone who is, whatever they happen to
be riding or driving.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

> Obviously if you assume that nobody runs a red light, sooner or later
> you're going to collide with someone who is, whatever they happen to
> be riding or driving.


Yes, you're right. That is obvious. Blindingly so, in fact. So much so
that it goes without saying, wouldn't you say?

In response to the forthcoming obvious statement:- and if they're riding
without lights at night when it's dark?
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
> > I get
> > more annoyed seeing a cyclist break a red than a car;

>
> Purely as a matter of interest, why do you think that is?
>
> --
> [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> 'graveyards are full of indispensable people'


Simon,

1) the primary one is the fact it validates many drivers' 'all cyclists
break lights' preconception.

2) As a daily commuting cyclist, who has had a run-in with a taxi
quoted as saying 'I hate you cyclists' or similar - I feel that a
jealous / angry driver is more likely to 'take revenge' / 'assert his
rights' / make a mistake next to me having just seen the cyclist pass
them.

3) - a practical one; I usually overtake them again before the next
lights; where they slice between me and the kerb; again.

Interesting to try to rationalise it, actually. Thanks for asking !

M.