Postie sacked for h*lm*t infringement

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/131/131764_post_walkout_fear_over_jos_cycle_helmet.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/5chhp

Interestingly she is being backed by the CWU, who originally pushed the
helmet rule through.




Post walkout fear over Jo's cycle helmet
Neal Snowdon

POSTAL workers in Greater Manchester are to be balloted on strike action -
after a colleague was sacked for not wearing a cycle helmet on her delivery
round.

Joanne Cyprus, 22, was spotted by bosses as she delivered mail in
Northenden.
She explained someone had stolen her helmet, but was sacked, although her
union says colleagues had only received warnings for the same offence.

Now the Communication Workers Union is to ballot all 100 staff at the
Wythenshawe delivery office, in Sharston, on strike action. A strike could
affect 100,000 people across Wythenshawe and at Manchester Airport.

The union believes Joanne's treatment breaches a nationally-agreed code of
conduct and says Royal Mail management should reverse the sacking decision.

Joanne, of Compton Drive, Newall Green, said: "This has been awful for me. I
feel like I've been treated badly and I am becoming more and more upset
about it.

Replacement
"My mum and dad are worried about it and my little boy Zack has seen me
crying and thought that it was because of something that he has done."

Joanne said she went to get her bike in the delivery office yard to find
someone had taken her Royal Mail-issued helmet.

She started her round without asking for a replacement and was then spotted
by two of her bosses. Under Royal Mail rules, all delivery staff using
bicycles must wear a helmet.

But the CWU says that under the national code of conduct, such an offence
should only receive a warning. The union says other people at Joanne's
office caught not wearing a helmet have only received a "ticking off".

CWU branch secretary Jim McNicholls said: "Delivery staff should wear
helmets and we accept there will be problems for people who do not wear
them. This member of staff has been sacked, which is not what should
happen."

A Royal Mail spokesman said: "A member of staff has been dismissed following
the completion of our disputes procedure. As part of that code of conduct,
any employee who is dismissed has the right of appeal."


Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[Sniper8052]

This is the type of thing up with which we should not put!!

To paraphrase someone far more famous.

For crying out loud what do these people do if they have to think further than the pub? Or, how can such an inept bunch achieve managerial status!!

Life is like a cess pit, the biggest lumps (something ruder was here) rise to the top.


Sniper8052

 

[Ambrose Nankivell]

[email protected] (Geraint Jones) writes:

> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > She started her round without asking for a replacement and was
> > then spotted by two of her bosses. Under Royal Mail rules, all
> > delivery staff using bicycles must wear a helmet.
>
> I'm confused about the Royal Mail's rules. Advice from the Safety
> Office here is that the HSE says that helmets are specifically not
> personal protection equipment, and so can not be made mandatory by
> an employer when the employer mandates the wearing of PPE (such as
> reflective clothing, and lights even when not legally required) for
> cycling in the course of employment. I haven't been able to find
> the source of this observation on the HSE website yet, so it may
> just be wrong; but if it's not, how can the Mail insist in the first
> place?

It's a uniform issue, not an H&S issue. Crazy, but there you go.

A

 

[Andy Leighton]

On 27 Sep 2004 15:07:24 +0100, Ambrose Nankivell <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (Geraint Jones) writes:
>
>> "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > She started her round without asking for a replacement and was
>> > then spotted by two of her bosses. Under Royal Mail rules, all
>> > delivery staff using bicycles must wear a helmet.
>>
>> I'm confused about the Royal Mail's rules. Advice from the Safety
>> Office here is that the HSE says that helmets are specifically not
>> personal protection equipment,
>
> It's a uniform issue, not an H&S issue. Crazy, but there you go.

But a lot of posties don't wear a helmet (from what I have seen).
She must have got up someone's nose or just been plain unlucky.

Also if it is a uniform thing, shouldn't all delivery staff even
those on foot and in vans have to wear them as well?

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[David Hansen]

On 27 Sep 2004 14:52:19 GMT someone who may be Andy Leighton
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>Also if it is a uniform thing, shouldn't all delivery staff even
>those on foot and in vans have to wear them as well?

Your mistake is to use logic.

The management of the post office have demonstrated their inability
to think logically for a long time.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Jack Ouzzi]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:38:52 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"

>CWU branch secretary Jim McNicholls said: "Delivery staff should wear
>helmets and we accept there will be problems for people who do not wear
>them. This member of staff has been sacked, which is not what should
>happen."
>
>A Royal Mail spokesman said: "A member of staff has been dismissed following
>the completion of our disputes procedure. As part of that code of conduct,
>any employee who is dismissed has the right of appeal."
>

For goodness sake, whatever happened to commonsense ............ a
quiet word in the ear from a line manager ??

The UK has gone 'procedural' mad!!

 

[[Not Responding]]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:05:05 +0000 (UTC),
[email protected] (Geraint Jones) wrote:

>"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote:
>( She started her round without asking for a replacement and was then spotted
> ) by two of her bosses. Under Royal Mail rules, all delivery staff using
>( bicycles must wear a helmet.
>
>I'm confused about the Royal Mail's rules. Advice from the Safety
>Office here is that the HSE says that helmets are specifically not
>personal protection equipment, and so can not be made mandatory by
>an employer when the employer mandates the wearing of PPE (such as
>reflective clothing, and lights even when not legally required) for
>cycling in the course of employment. I haven't been able to find
>the source of this observation on the HSE website yet, so it may
>just be wrong; but if it's not, how can the Mail insist in the first
>place?

If you track it down before I do, please publish here. I'm (yet again)
about to go into bat against our H&S dept. I think they've noticed
that I've been through all our "welcome" documents and removed the
"you are advised to wear a cycle helmet" note to anyone commuting by
bike.

 

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:38:52 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy,
you know?" <[email protected]> quoted this:-

>http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/131/131764_post_walkout_fear_over_jos_cycle_helmet.html

>CWU branch secretary Jim McNicholls said: "Delivery staff should wear
>helmets

Should they?

Why?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:42:49 +0100 someone who may be " [Not
Responding] " <[email protected]> wrote this:-

>If you track it down before I do, please publish here. I'm (yet again)
>about to go into bat against our H&S dept. I think they've noticed
>that I've been through all our "welcome" documents and removed the
>"you are advised to wear a cycle helmet" note to anyone commuting by
>bike.

I take it that they don't nag others to do what is legally required.

It is interesting that this sort of bod feels free to nag cyclists
about things which are not legal requirements, but fails to nag
others about things which are.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:17:12 +0100, Jack Ouzzi
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>For goodness sake, whatever happened to commonsense

Remember, we are talking here about religious headgear. Common sense
goes ill with such things. Ask any French Muslim.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

 

[[Not Responding]]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:01:20 +0100, David Hansen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:42:49 +0100 someone who may be " [Not
>Responding] " <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>If you track it down before I do, please publish here. I'm (yet again)
>>about to go into bat against our H&S dept. I think they've noticed
>>that I've been through all our "welcome" documents and removed the
>>"you are advised to wear a cycle helmet" note to anyone commuting by
>>bike.
>
>I take it that they don't nag others to do what is legally required.
>
>It is interesting that this sort of bod feels free to nag cyclists
>about things which are not legal requirements, but fails to nag
>others about things which are.

To give them their due[1] we have a tight H&S regime across the board.
This does cover company travel and we do check to make sure that
journeys by road are not time pressured and are planned to allow for
rest periods if longer than 2 hours. Trains are the official mode of
choice for longer distances from a H&S POV.

Drivers *are* reminded about the need to maintain vehicles, wear
seatbelts etc so it's not too one sided. It's just that as it's my
signature at the bottom I can hardly issue a recommendation to wear
cycle helmets, can I? People in RL would spot the inconsistancy as
rapidly as people here.

[1] Or rather, "our due". H&S are merely *advisors*. In this instance,
I'm the autonomous decision making body - or whatever the EU parlance
is for the poor sod who'll be in the dock if H&S goes to rats.

 

[Mark Thompson]

> Should they?
>
> Why?

Because the idiot union insisted on it.

 

[David Hansen]

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:38:11 +0100 someone who may be " [Not
Responding] " <[email protected]> wrote this:-

>Drivers *are* reminded about the need to maintain vehicles, wear
>seatbelts etc

Legal requirements.

Plastic hats for cyclists are not legal requirements, no matter how
much "safety" bods huff and puff.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[RogerDodger]

[Post walkout fear over Jo's cycle helmet
Neal Snowdon

POSTAL workers in Greater Manchester are to be balloted on strike action -
after a colleague was sacked for not wearing a cycle helmet on her delivery
round.

Joanne said she went to get her bike in the delivery office yard to find
someone had taken her Royal Mail-issued helmet.

She started her round without asking for a replacement and was then spotted
by two of her bosses. Under Royal Mail rules, all delivery staff using
bicycles must wear a helmet.

But the CWU says that under the national code of conduct, such an offence
should only receive a warning. The union says other people at Joanne's
office caught not wearing a helmet have only received a "ticking off".

CWU branch secretary Jim McNicholls said: "Delivery staff should wear
helmets and we accept there will be problems for people who do not wear
them. This member of staff has been sacked, which is not what should
happen."

Well - if I were a postal worker in their employ (given my attitude to helmet hitlers) then there would be a string of accidents occuring to my issued helmet that would make it unsafe for use - whoops! I dropped it - again and look - it's too damaged to use. What would happen then. Surely postal workers can't be forced to wear damaged helmets? And surely they can't be penalised if their helmet accidently (and repeatedly in this case) falls off the handelbars while the worker is stationary - having removed the helmet temporarily for comfort reasons?

Surely there's more than one way to skin a cat - or in this case - make a mockery of this authoritarian intrusion.

Roger

 

[davek]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> POSTAL workers in Greater Manchester are to be balloted on strike action -
> after a colleague was sacked for not wearing a cycle helmet on her delivery
> round.

I don't think I've ever seen a postie wearing one - certainly none of
the posties round my way wear one while on their rounds.

d.

 

[Howard]

What a joke!

Most of the posties around my way dress like tramps and drive like
idiots. No seat belts, scant regard for speed limits or the Highway
Code. You know the score. Anyhow here's the stuff from the HSE:

In 2002 Colin Clarke, a member of the UK Cycle Helmets forum made
enquiries of the Health and Safety Executive on behalf of the CTC in
order to clarify the position of those 'required' to wear helmets when
using pool cycles or making 'business' cycle trips. The HSE replied:

Dear Colin,

Thank you for your report on the effect cycle helmets have on cycle
safety. Unfortunately HSE are able to offer you little help in this
area as we only have responsibility towards cyclists while they are
engaged in a work activity. These cyclists will represent a very small
number of the total. HSE has no remit with regards to workers cycling
to and from work. Furthermore cycle helmets used on the public highway
are specifically excluded from the Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)
at work regulations. This means that it would be very hard for an
employer to force an employee to wear a cycle helmet on health and
safety grounds, they will however be free to require employees to wear
cycle helmets as part of their uniform.

HSE has no remit to dictate the uniform policy of a company unless it
falls within the scope of PPE. Ultimately the wearing of cycle helmets
is a matter on individual choice, any stance to the contrary could
potentially be challenged on human rights grounds. With regards to the
use of cycle helmets on the public roads by members of the public,
this is a policy area that falls totally within the remit of the
Department for Transport.

Yours,
Jon Windeatt
Health & Safety Executive
Safety Policy Directorate
Workplace Transport & Special Hazards Section.

30 Sept 2002

 

[Peter Owens]

" [Not Responding] " <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:01:20 +0100, David Hansen
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:42:49 +0100 someone who may be " [Not
> >Responding] " <[email protected]> wrote this:-
> >
> >>If you track it down before I do, please publish here. I'm (yet again)
> >>about to go into bat against our H&S dept. I think they've noticed
> >>that I've been through all our "welcome" documents and removed the
> >>"you are advised to wear a cycle helmet" note to anyone commuting by
> >>bike.
> >
> >I take it that they don't nag others to do what is legally required.
> >
> >It is interesting that this sort of bod feels free to nag cyclists
> >about things which are not legal requirements, but fails to nag
> >others about things which are.
>
> To give them their due[1] we have a tight H&S regime across the board.
> This does cover company travel and we do check to make sure that
> journeys by road are not time pressured and are planned to allow for
> rest periods if longer than 2 hours. Trains are the official mode of
> choice for longer distances from a H&S POV.
>
> Drivers *are* reminded about the need to maintain vehicles, wear
> seatbelts etc so it's not too one sided.

Instead of cutting out the advice to cyclists - why not insert advice to
drivers to wear crash helmets? Then it really would be even handed.