Practice 40k vs a 2x20 session...

[quenya]

With the time it takes to get out of town, warm-up, and warm-down I find my practice 40k doesn't take a whole lot longer than a 2x20 session, with most of the differences being 20 minutes of hard work and the crawl home after a 40k. That being the case, is there any reason not to substitute a scheduled threshold interval set with a practice TT when I have the time and motivation?

 

[daveryanwyoming]

I do it all the time, not always a full out TT effort but I like to ride one of my weekly L4 sessions as a solid 1x60 instead of 2x30, 3x20, 2x20, etc. My AP for a 1x60 tends to come in around 95% of my current FTP.

So yeah, a full 40K TT effort is fantastic Threshold training, if nothing else it's a good 15 to 20 minutes more time in L4 than a classic 2x20 session but I also find it's much better for working on race day focus and the mental aspects of longer time trials.

Try a single all out 20 minute effort the day after one of those full 1x60 (or whatever your 40K works out to) efforts. My four all time best 20 minute efforts have come the day after a 1x60 ridden at 90-100% of FTP. It really surprised me the first time it happened, it was like legs were tired from the previous effort but pretty much numb to the normal discomfort of full out efforts and churning out the watts in big gears just felt easier than normal. I've had a few other riders try it and several of them have set new records the day after a full 1x60. Give it a try sometime in the off season when you're playing with blocked L4 training, you might just surprise yourself.

-Dave

 

[quenya]

Thanks for the quick reply Dave.

The 40 k route I have used has a fair amount of climbing, nothing so steep that I have to get out of my aero position, but I do gain about 1000 feet, and it's taken me about 61 minutes each time. The first time I did the full 40 k I raced a crit the next day, and felt invincible in that race (didn't win but felt so strong).

 

[lanierb]

+1. 1x60 is a great workout even if you only go 90%.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .
Try a single all out 20 minute effort the day after one of those full 1x60 (or whatever your 40K works out to) efforts. My four all time best 20 minute efforts have come the day after a 1x60 ridden at 90-100% of FTP.
-Dave

Sorry to distract from the topic. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif

I wonder if I experienced some sort of similar phenomenon on my Sunday 2 x 60 effort. I know the situation is really different than what you are describing, but I had an unexplainable and unexpected good performance on the first 60 minute session. It was unexpected because I was very fatigued from training all week, did poorly on a brisk 67 mile Saturday ride due to fatigue, but then turned around and did pretty good on the first 60 minute interval (0.9 IF) on Sunday.

I believe I could have done even better, but traffic and a fear of not leaving enough in the legs for the return of the out and back route had me restraining the effort a little more. Mind you my talent and FT are way low compared to you guys, but for me I was quite surprised that my legs had the willingness to go even though they were extremely sore and fatigued feeling. My legs were much more willing than my attitude for sure as described on my ride description. I typically do these in the ~0.8+ IF range.

Ride with Data

Anyway I thought it was an interesting and unexpected experience. I fully expected a horrible performance.