Probably Wasn't the Sweettarts

Are you working with a trainer?

--

Eat less, exercise more. -- MFW

--
"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to follow up on my post regarding my experience following a workout
w/ some carb supplementation.

To recap, my last workout was on Monday. On Tuesday I had *significant*
swelling in my arms, but not in my wrists or hands, so I wasn't worried
that it was a circulatory problem. On Wednesday afternoon I noticed that
my right hand was starting to swell and that the swelling in my arms was
the same or greater. So, I went over to the campus health clinic (I do
have a regular Dr, but the clinic will fit you in right away, and my
doctor is more like 3-6 weeks).

The physician I saw said there was a real possibility of Deep Vein
Thrombosis,* so he sent me over to the local county hospital (interesting
place, 2 stab wounds came in while I was there, but other than that it was
mostly car accidents - which made me feel a little out of place, w/ my
complaint of "puffy arms"😉. Fortunately, w/ an ultrasound they were able
to rule out any clots - although the technician did keep saying "wow,
that's a lot of swelling" while she was 'sounding my arms. The ultrasound
also confirmed that I hadn't popped a muscle, which I was pretty sure of
anyway - no pain beyond what you'd expect from the swelling and it's hard
to imagine I could do it on both sides.

Once that was ruled out, they had to do some blood work to see what was
going on. Getting the blood was interesting because I was so swollen -
after 2 attempts to get blood from my elbows, one from my wrist, thumb
(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

After a period of waiting around (to be fair, though, at this point we all
knew I was the least sick person in the ER) the blood tests came back
showing nothing more serious than some elevated enzyme levels. In short, I
had a bad case of weekend warrior syndrome.

I'm supposed to rest and keep my arms elevated - did that today and I can
now feel my elbow joint so it's probably working - and then build up my
workouts gradually.

Naturally, I feel a bit silly having rushed to the emergency room and
jumped to the head of the line with my non-existant blood clots, but of
course I'm really glad that everyone took it seriously and it turned out
to be nothing rather than the other way around.

Looking at the whole series of events, I think it was a concatenation of
events: I really did have a very hard arm workout last week (I hit and
stayed at failure very early), then I was sick with some sort of fluish
thing over the weekend - alternating sweats and shivers - then even a
relatively moderate workout on Monday was just more than my body could
clear. So, all in all, I'm thinking the TKD probably didn't have much to
do with it. But I'm still going to start *very* slowly if I try it again.

Martha

*He was so concerned about this that he actually told me to tell them I'm
a lawyer so they'd see me right away. Usually, that's something I avoid
mentioning to doctors - I feel it can create misunderstandings. <g>

--
Sig pending

Consider doing a full-body workout with arm work, if any, at the end of your
routine. Arms get used is so many other movements that it is rarely
necessary to do any specific work, let alone bombing the hell out of them.

Martha Gallagher <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Just to follow up on my post regarding my experience following a
:> workout w/ some carb supplementation.
:>
:> To recap, my last workout was on Monday. On Tuesday I had
:> *significant* swelling in my arms, but not in my wrists or hands, so
:> I wasn't worried that it was a circulatory problem. On Wednesday
:> afternoon I noticed that my right hand was starting to swell and
:> that the swelling in my arms was the same or greater. So, I went
:> over to the campus health clinic (I do have a regular Dr, but the
:> clinic will fit you in right away, and my doctor is more like 3-6
:> weeks).
:>
:> The physician I saw said there was a real possibility of Deep Vein
:> Thrombosis,* so he sent me over to the local county hospital
:> (interesting place, 2 stab wounds came in while I was there, but
:> other than that it was mostly car accidents - which made me feel a
:> little out of place, w/ my complaint of "puffy arms"😉. Fortunately,
:> w/ an ultrasound they were able to rule out any clots - although the
:> technician did keep saying "wow, that's a lot of swelling" while she
:> was 'sounding my arms. The ultrasound also confirmed that I hadn't
:> popped a muscle, which I was pretty sure of anyway - no pain beyond
:> what you'd expect from the swelling and it's hard to imagine I could
:> do it on both sides.
:>
:> Once that was ruled out, they had to do some blood work to see what
:> was going on. Getting the blood was interesting because I was so
:> swollen - after 2 attempts to get blood from my elbows, one from my
:> wrist, thumb (that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone
:> who looked about an age that he should have been out delivering his
:> paper-route, but was really an intern, got it with a groinal stick,
:> using what I swear was a horse needle.
:>
:> After a period of waiting around (to be fair, though, at this point
:> we all knew I was the least sick person in the ER) the blood tests
:> came back showing nothing more serious than some elevated enzyme
:> levels. In short, I had a bad case of weekend warrior syndrome.
:>
:> I'm supposed to rest and keep my arms elevated - did that today and
:> I can now feel my elbow joint so it's probably working - and then
:> build up my workouts gradually.
:>
:> Naturally, I feel a bit silly having rushed to the emergency room and
:> jumped to the head of the line with my non-existant blood clots, but
:> of course I'm really glad that everyone took it seriously and it
:> turned out to be nothing rather than the other way around.
:>
:> Looking at the whole series of events, I think it was a
:> concatenation of events: I really did have a very hard arm workout
:> last week (I hit and stayed at failure very early), then I was sick
:> with some sort of fluish thing over the weekend - alternating sweats
:> and shivers - then even a relatively moderate workout on Monday was
:> just more than my body could clear. So, all in all, I'm thinking the
:> TKD probably didn't have much to do with it. But I'm still going to
:> start *very* slowly if I try it again.
:>
:> Martha
:>
:>
:> *He was so concerned about this that he actually told me to tell
:> them I'm a lawyer so they'd see me right away. Usually, that's
:> something I avoid mentioning to doctors - I feel it can create
:> misunderstandings. <g>
:>
:> --
:> Sig pending

Quoting Martha Gallagher:

Quoted message said:

Just to follow up on my post regarding my experience following a workout
w/ some carb supplementation.

[... went to emerg rm, etc., read and snipped...]

Quoted message said:

Looking at the whole series of events, I think it was a concatenation of
events: I really did have a very hard arm workout last week (I hit and
stayed at failure very early), then I was sick with some sort of fluish
thing over the weekend - alternating sweats and shivers - then even a
relatively moderate workout on Monday was just more than my body could
clear. So, all in all, I'm thinking the TKD probably didn't have much to
do with it. But I'm still going to start *very* slowly if I try it again.

I may be reading too much into earlier posts, but I'm somehow getting
the impression that the trainer is pushing you a bit harder than
you're ready for.

If I recall correctly, you said that the trainer indicated she was
going to put you on a "demanding" program.

Later, you mentioned that she had you working to failure on negs of
pushups during the first session together -- until not only did you
have trouble even holding a water bottle, but that you also felt funny
for hours afterwards (this being before you decided to try a TKD).

Anyway, I don't think the TKD was the cause.

As an aside, even though I've messed with TKDs and CKDs a bit in the
past, what has generally worked best for me long-term in conjunction
with weight training is to just eat a lowish-moderate amount of carbs
all the time (80-120g) and not worry too much about structured
carb-ups.

But, as usual, ymmv.

Martha Gallagher wrote:

|| *He was so concerned about this that he actually told me to tell
|| them I'm a lawyer so they'd see me right away.

This is appalling as well as unethical -- not to mention illegal if they
actually did see you first because of your occupation. By Federal law
everyone is supposed to be given equal treatmemt in an emergency room
regardless of social status or ability to pay --and for good reason.

--
Peter
Website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

Martha Gallagher said:

Just to follow up on my post regarding my experience following a workout
w/ some carb supplementation.

To recap, my last workout was on Monday. On Tuesday I had *significant*
swelling in my arms, but not in my wrists or hands, so I wasn't worried
that it was a circulatory problem. On Wednesday afternoon I noticed that
my right hand was starting to swell and that the swelling in my arms was
the same or greater. So, I went over to the campus health clinic (I do
have a regular Dr, but the clinic will fit you in right away, and my
doctor is more like 3-6 weeks).

The physician I saw said there was a real possibility of Deep Vein
Thrombosis,* so he sent me over to the local county hospital (interesting
place, 2 stab wounds came in while I was there, but other than that it was
mostly car accidents - which made me feel a little out of place, w/ my
complaint of "puffy arms"😉. Fortunately, w/ an ultrasound they were able
to rule out any clots - although the technician did keep saying "wow,
that's a lot of swelling" while she was 'sounding my arms. The ultrasound
also confirmed that I hadn't popped a muscle, which I was pretty sure of
anyway - no pain beyond what you'd expect from the swelling and it's hard
to imagine I could do it on both sides.

Once that was ruled out, they had to do some blood work to see what was
going on. Getting the blood was interesting because I was so swollen -
after 2 attempts to get blood from my elbows, one from my wrist, thumb
(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

After a period of waiting around (to be fair, though, at this point we all
knew I was the least sick person in the ER) the blood tests came back
showing nothing more serious than some elevated enzyme levels. In short, I
had a bad case of weekend warrior syndrome.

I'm supposed to rest and keep my arms elevated - did that today and I can
now feel my elbow joint so it's probably working - and then build up my
workouts gradually.

Naturally, I feel a bit silly having rushed to the emergency room and
jumped to the head of the line with my non-existant blood clots, but of
course I'm really glad that everyone took it seriously and it turned out
to be nothing rather than the other way around.

Looking at the whole series of events, I think it was a concatenation of
events: I really did have a very hard arm workout last week (I hit and
stayed at failure very early), then I was sick with some sort of fluish
thing over the weekend - alternating sweats and shivers - then even a
relatively moderate workout on Monday was just more than my body could
clear. So, all in all, I'm thinking the TKD probably didn't have much to
do with it. But I'm still going to start *very* slowly if I try it again.

Martha

*He was so concerned about this that he actually told me to tell them I'm
a lawyer so they'd see me right away. Usually, that's something I avoid
mentioning to doctors - I feel it can create misunderstandings. <g>

I'm wondering it you're having a problem with the muscle's sheath
holding in fluid and/or blood. But it would be unusual for it to
be in both arms. Watch for any sign of fever or ongoing pain.

--
Rudy - Remove the Z from my address to respond.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!"
-Emiliano Zapata

Check out the a.s.d.l-c FAQ at:
http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/faq.htm

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Once that was ruled out, they had to do some blood work to see what was
going on. Getting the blood was interesting because I was so swollen -
after 2 attempts to get blood from my elbows, one from my wrist, thumb
(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

That must have been hell! That really made me feel for you. I'm always a
challenge to get blood out of, they usually get it with a baby needle out of
the back of my hand. I have nightmares about needing emergency surgery and
the anesthesiologist not being able to get a line in me. I'm glad your test
results came back good and you didn't have DVT.

Martha Gallagher said:

(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

When Pat was in the hospital having Rebecca, the nurses couldn't get
the IV in *at all* After poking her a half dozen times, they gave up
and called down to an EMT from the ambulance squad. He got it in one.

Technique, technique, technique!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Julie said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Once that was ruled out, they had to do some blood work to see what was
going on. Getting the blood was interesting because I was so swollen -
after 2 attempts to get blood from my elbows, one from my wrist, thumb
(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

That must have been hell! That really made me feel for you. I'm always a
challenge to get blood out of, they usually get it with a baby needle out of
the back of my hand. I have nightmares about needing emergency surgery and
the anesthesiologist not being able to get a line in me. I'm glad your test
results came back good and you didn't have DVT.

I'm surprised that they did not just get RT in there to do an arterial
stick. While a radial draw from the wrist hurts, it's better than going
thru all that. :-(

For emergency surgery, they'd find a way. Trust me...

Oh, consider doing some weight lifting. I've noted that, after 3 years
of lifting, my arm, hand and wrist viens have gotten HUGE! Nobody ever
has trouble getting blood from me anymore. That used to not be the case.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>, DJ Delorie <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Martha Gallagher said:

(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

When Pat was in the hospital having Rebecca, the nurses couldn't get
the IV in *at all* After poking her a half dozen times, they gave up
and called down to an EMT from the ambulance squad. He got it in one.

Technique, technique, technique!

And patience.... ;-)
The real secret to gaining venous access is taking your time!
Sit down, relax, and quit being in such a freaking hurry.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Sounds like a case of over-enthusiastic beginner over-doing it,
considerably.

I thought you had a personal trainer?
If he/she pushed you to an amount of work that did more than make for
sore muscles the next day----he/she is a loiusy trainer. If you did it
on your own...I hope you learned something. Over-doing it only sets your
back. Now you'll have to wait for the arms to heal before working them
again.

Consider
A. getting another trainer
or
B.following his/her instructions and not go beyond them, whichever is
applicable.

Somebody screwed up---either you or the trainer.

LassChance

Start LC~5-16-05
202-195-165
(i only weigh on Sunday)

Marengo said:

Martha Gallagher wrote:

|| *He was so concerned about this that he actually told me to tell
|| them I'm a lawyer so they'd see me right away.

This is appalling as well as unethical -- not to mention illegal if they
actually did see you first because of your occupation. By Federal law
everyone is supposed to be given equal treatmemt in an emergency room
regardless of social status or ability to pay --and for good reason.

It was a joke, Peter. They saw me first because there was a real
possibility that I had a DVT and that's not something to screw around
with. Once that was ruled out, I waited like everyone else (except in
back, rather than in the waiting room).

In any case, the point of the comment wasn't about ability to pay or
status - it was about hospital's fear of lawsuits. And, no, if you're
worried about it, I didn't mention my job while there - but I did write
*POSSIBLE BLOOD CLOT* in bold letters on my admission sheet.

Martha

--
Sig pending

Suze said:

Quoting Martha Gallagher:

Quoted message said:

Just to follow up on my post regarding my experience following a workout
w/ some carb supplementation.

[... went to emerg rm, etc., read and snipped...]

Quoted message said:

Looking at the whole series of events, I think it was a concatenation of
events: I really did have a very hard arm workout last week (I hit and
stayed at failure very early), then I was sick with some sort of fluish
thing over the weekend - alternating sweats and shivers - then even a
relatively moderate workout on Monday was just more than my body could
clear. So, all in all, I'm thinking the TKD probably didn't have much to
do with it. But I'm still going to start *very* slowly if I try it again.

I may be reading too much into earlier posts, but I'm somehow getting
the impression that the trainer is pushing you a bit harder than
you're ready for.

I think that's a fair assesment. <g> I was just looking at the blood test
results I got at the hospital - the range for CPK on their test is 2-142
and mine was 738 and their range for Creatine is .8-1.5 and mine was .6 so
I'm thinking my muscles definitely were pushed beyond tolerance. Esp.
since the ER dr. said they were probably higher before.

I think there are several factors that led us to overestimate how much I
can handle.

1. I think most of her clients are much older and so I think that she
probably over-compensated to make my workouts more challenging.

2. I'm quite cardio fit and since I don't get excessively winded from a
workout it's probably harder to remember that my muscles aren't at the
same level of fitness.

3. I try really hard not be be a wimp. If I *can* do a rep, I'm damn well
going to do it even if inside I'm screaming "no mas, please no mas." I
would think that's something trainers have to learn about each individual
they work with - does this person need to be pushed to do a little more
than they think they can and do they tend to exaggerate how tired they are
or is this someone who if they say they've hit failure, means that they
couldn't open the door if the building were on fire. I think that's
something where my trainer needs to learn to be better about reading body
language - holding the water bottle w/ two hands should have been a
tip-off that I was really done and needed to switch to another group of
muscles.

But, that's also something I need to be responsible about - on Monday I
*knew* I should have asked if we could work on stretches or something
similarly undemanding, but I wanted to keep making progress, so I said I
was ready for a full workout.

Looking back, that was probably a counter-productive decision. <g>

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I don't think the TKD was the cause.

No, even just doing the math, 14 or even 28 g of carb, even if it all went
to the arm muscles and even taking into account the water associated with
it, couldn't have caused that sort of swelling.

Quoted message said:

As an aside, even though I've messed with TKDs and CKDs a bit in the
past, what has generally worked best for me long-term in conjunction
with weight training is to just eat a lowish-moderate amount of carbs
all the time (80-120g) and not worry too much about structured
carb-ups.

That would be doable. I'm going to try going back into training slowly. If
I can sustain a moderate level of development eating the way I normally
do, I'll stick to that, but if I find I need more carbs, I'll see if I can
just add slightly carbier foods to my meals.

Quoted message said:

But, as usual, ymmv.

Ain't that the truth.

Thanks,
Martha

--
Sig pending

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Julie said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Once that was ruled out, they had to do some blood work to see what was
going on. Getting the blood was interesting because I was so swollen -
after 2 attempts to get blood from my elbows, one from my wrist, thumb
(that hurt, that really, really hurt) and foot someone who looked about
an age that he should have been out delivering his paper-route, but was
really an intern, got it with a groinal stick, using what I swear was a
horse needle.

That must have been hell! That really made me feel for you. I'm
always a challenge to get blood out of, they usually get it with a
baby needle out of the back of my hand. I have nightmares about
needing emergency surgery and the anesthesiologist not being able to
get a line in me. I'm glad your test results came back good and you
didn't have DVT.

It was strange for me. Normally I'm easy to get blood out of - I have very
thin, pale skin, so the veins are easy to see, and they're usually pretty
accessible. In fact, I used to be be a pheresis donor for the Red Cross
because it never bothered me to sit there for an hour or so with a needle
in each arm.

Yes, not having a DVT is definitely good.

Quoted message said:

I'm surprised that they did not just get RT in there to do an arterial
stick. While a radial draw from the wrist hurts, it's better than going
thru all that. :-(

After the technician poked around for a while, the RN said he *could* do
an arterial stick in the wrist. I was fine with it - I've got a pretty
high tolerance - but he obviously really didn't want to so they punted it
up to the Dr. who in turn told the intern to get some practice.

Quoted message said:

For emergency surgery, they'd find a way. Trust me...

Oh, consider doing some weight lifting. I've noted that, after 3 years

I think this is where I came in. <g> It's overdoing my intro to lifting
that caused my problems. When I was being discharged, my Dr. said I should
definitely continue working out (anyone who can get that swollen obviously
needs to strengthen the muscles), but to build up slowly.

Thanks,
Martha

--
Sig pending

Hey Lass,

Lass Chance said:

Sounds like a case of over-enthusiastic beginner over-doing it,
considerably.

I thought you had a personal trainer?

Do. This was all under supervision.

Quoted message said:

If he/she pushed you to an amount of work that did more than make for
sore muscles the next day----he/she is a loiusy trainer. If you did it
on your own...I hope you learned something. Over-doing it only sets your
back. Now you'll have to wait for the arms to heal before working them
again.

Consider
A. getting another trainer
or
B.following his/her instructions and not go beyond them, whichever is
applicable.

Well, I'm not much of the blaming tribe. As I see it, we both
overestimated how much I could do. She needs to work on reading body
language - on the workout that was really hard (not the one after which I
swelled) there were signs that I'd really pushed to my absolute limit and
she should have seen that, but I also needed to be more assertive about
saying when I need to ease up. And, I definitely should have said that we
needed to do a light workout on Monday with nothing more than stretching
for arms.

Quoted message said:

Somebody screwed up---either you or the trainer.

Probably both, but I'm sure it'll be a learning experience for both of us.

Thanks,
Martha

--
Sig pending

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

3. I try really hard not be be a wimp. ... I think that's
something where my trainer needs to learn to be better about reading body
language - holding the water bottle w/ two hands should have been a
tip-off that I was really done and needed to switch to another group of
muscles.

Wow! One of you are going to have to think about form, and working to a
percentage of failure!

Glad the DVT was a scare.

Nicky.

--
A1c 10.5/4.5/<6 Weight 95/76/72Kg
1g Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
T2 DX 05/2004

Nicky said:

"Martha Gallagher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

3. I try really hard not be be a wimp. ... I think that's
something where my trainer needs to learn to be better about reading body
language - holding the water bottle w/ two hands should have been a
tip-off that I was really done and needed to switch to another group of
muscles.

Wow! One of you are going to have to think about form, and working to a
percentage of failure!

Yes. I think part of the problem with doing exercises using your own body
weight (like pushups) is that it's not so easy to just switch to a lighter
weight. It's too bad, 'cause except for the part about ending up in the
emergency room <g> I really enjoy the feeling of having worked *hard*. I
just need to find the sweet spot between pushing enough to benefit and
pushing so hard that I can't fit my arms into my dresses.

Quoted message said:

Glad the DVT was a scare.

Thanks. My doctor did some x-rays to rule out other serious causes, but
everything looks good, so he said to just ease into it a little more. I'm
hoping to finally start getting into the pools, so maybe that will be a
gentler way to start getting my arms working.

Martha

--
Sig pending