Quit knocking Zabel.

musette said:

Alejet+Zabel+Stuart O'Grady (and his lead-out man M White)? Why does Milram need all three? 😕

Sprinters rule.....

Paris-Tour 2005 : Winner ERIK ZABEL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last race in Magenta for the TM team in 2005 and Erik Zabel wins Paris-Tour.

He beat Allan Davis and Robbie McEwan in the sprint and Daniele Bennati of Lampre after catching, err, err, Stijn Devolder of DC (oh dear) to win his thrid Paris-Tour.
Also in todays field were Thor Husovd, Alessando Valverde, Lars Michaaelsen,
Philippe Gilbert, Jean-Patrick Nazon, Steven De Jongh.

"It's a dream come true," said Zabel. "I wanted to say farewell to T-Mobile by winning here and I'm delighted I could. The sprint was long and difficult, Bennati kept me on my toes all the way to the finish."

Zabel, who has been with only one team throughout his hugely successful career, winning the Tour de France green points jersey six times - now shares the Paris-Tours record with Belgian Guido Reybroeck, who won the race three times between 1964 and 1968.

"It will be difficult to leave after 13 years. I had 12 superb years with the team, a lot of happiness and a lot of great results.

"This last season has perhaps been the most difficult," he added, referring to his non-selection for the Tour de France. "But I don't regret a thing. I also learned a lot this year."

Marvellous.

limerickman said:

Paris-Tour 2005 : Winner ERIK ZABEL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last race in Magenta for the TM team in 2005 and Erik Zabel wins Paris-Tour.

Allllriiighhhhhhhhhtttttt!!! Class beats [censored].

musette said:

Procycling has it right -- Erik Zabel is a figurehead, no longer the sprinter he was.

Yes, poor Zabel, such a figurehead that ... err, wait... he just won another classic...

Excellent race!

tcklyde said:

Yes, poor Zabel, such a figurehead that ... err, wait... he just won another classic...

Excellent race!

Zabel is great.
SO glad he won.
Dirk Demol, the DC directeur sportif, is such a tool for telling Devolder not to take a turn the last km.
All this Belgian infighting between Gilbert and Devolder which Demol feeds into totally.

Go Zabel!!!!!!!!

note how musette doesn't comment after Zabel wins 😄

Sure I did, just in a different thread. :p

Note Zabel is appropriate for the type of race that Paris-Tours is (i.e., non-stage race, where TM is not trying to contend for GC!) 😄

musette said:

Sure I did, just in a different thread. :p

Note Zabel is appropriate for the type of race that Paris-Tours is (i.e., non-stage race, where TM is not trying to contend for GC!) 😄

......except in 1997 when TM won on GC, Overall team prize, best young rider..........green points jersey winner........

limerickman said:

......except in 1997 when TM won on GC, Overall team prize, best young rider..........green points jersey winner........

or any of the other years that Zabel took the Green Jersey - musette, look at the hisrtory of the Tour de France - and cycling in general - pre 1999, please - and not just the few races Mr Armstrong rode in either...

musette said:

Note Zabel is appropriate for the type of race that Paris-Tours is (i.e., non-stage race, where TM is not trying to contend for GC!) 😄

Not only has cycling been around since pre-1999, there is nothing wrong with a 2nd or 3rd place podium position. SPonsors love to have the winner each year, but they are realistic and will be satisfied with a podium placement.

Want to know how meaningful a TDF podium place, ask Olano, Moreau, Botero, Boogerd, Dufaux, LeBlanc, how much they would love to just to have appeared on the podium once. Every year, they and their team thought they were good enough to win the TDF just to come up short. In the span of the last 11 years, only once did the final podium picture didn't include a jersey with the Telekom/T-Mobile logo (1999). So in spite of Mr. Zabel, they finished podium 5 times in the years he won the green jersey. Also, without Mr. Zabel, T-Mobile would be less 13(Give or take, can't recall the exact number at the moment) stage victories just in the TDF.

To think that a winner in terms of cycling and as a person to represent your company of such class as Zabel is a negative to be placed on the TDF teams is just unfathomable.

Capt.Injury said:

Not only has cycling been around since pre-1999, there is nothing wrong with a 2nd or 3rd place podium position. SPonsors love to have the winner each year, but they are realistic and will be satisfied with a podium placement.

Want to know how meaningful a TDF podium place, ask Olano, Moreau, Botero, Boogerd, Dufaux, LeBlanc, how much they would love to just to have appeared on the podium once. Every year, they and their team thought they were good enough to win the TDF just to come up short. In the span of the last 11 years, only once did the final podium picture didn't include a jersey with the Telekom/T-Mobile logo (1999). So in spite of Mr. Zabel, they finished podium 5 times in the years he won the green jersey. Also, without Mr. Zabel, T-Mobile would be less 13(Give or take, can't recall the exact number at the moment) stage victories just in the TDF.

To think that a winner in terms of cycling and as a person to represent your company of such class as Zabel is a negative to be placed on the TDF teams is just unfathomable.

Chapeau! Couldn't agree more

It depends on what each team and each cyclist's aspirations are. You cannot tell me that TM is happy with JU's repeated second/third/fourth place finishes since 1997, or that JU himself is happy with that. Given the subjective team and personal goals of TM and JU, they have failed to achieve their own goals of a TdF GC win. :p

musette said:

It depends on what each team and each cyclist's aspirations are. You cannot tell me that TM is happy with JU's repeated second/third/fourth place finishes since 1997, or that JU himself is happy with that. Given the subjective team and personal goals of TM and JU, they have failed to achieve their own goals of a TdF GC win. :

You're getting your threads mixed up, dear.
This is Zabel who we're talking about here.

You're thinking of the other thread that you tend to populate :
"Ullrichs team isn't better than USPS TDF team for three weeks of the year"

musette said:

It depends on what each team and each cyclist's aspirations are. You cannot tell me that TM is happy with JU's repeated second/third/fourth place finishes since 1997, or that JU himself is happy with that. Given the subjective team and personal goals of TM and JU, they have failed to achieve their own goals of a TdF GC win. :p

As we're talking about Zabel, I imagine that his 6 Green Jerseys perfectly fulfilled his aspirations for the Tour, wouldn't you?

Trying for stage wins/green in 05 may have been Zabel's hope for the TdF, but it was not his team's, obviously. 😄 There was a disconnect between Zabel's individual aspirations and what his team wanted to achieve at the Tour. Also, talking about accomplishments from years ago is not too helpful in justifying the participation of a cyclist who has been on the performance decline. :p

musette said:

Trying for stage wins/green in 05 may have been Zabel's hope for the TdF, but it was not his team's, obviously. 😄 There was a disconnect between Zabel's individual aspirations and what his team wanted to achieve at the Tour. Also, talking about accomplishments from years ago is not too helpful in justifying the participation of a cyclist who has been on the performance decline. :p

So in decline, in fact, that he's just won Paris-Tour - a Classic - the third time he's managed to win this race - I imagine that actually winning a real Classic just once is something Hincapie would give his right arm to do...

That Zabel won a non-TdF race doesn't mean he was suitable for 05 T-Mobile TdF team. 😎

This is a fundamental point that some people don't understand. Nobody is saying that Zabel is incapable of winning some races, albeit his winning ratio is much lower than in years past. What the question is is whether a sprinter is the best way to fill one of the limited spaces on the TdF team that is trying, from the perspective of the team and of its leader, to win the TdF GC.

musette said:

That Zabel won a non-TdF race doesn't mean he was suitable for 05 T-Mobile TdF team. 😎

This is a fundamental point that some people don't understand. Nobody is saying that Zabel is incapable of winning some races, albeit his winning ratio is much lower than in years past. What the question is is whether a sprinter is the best way to fill one of the limited spaces on the TdF team that is trying, from the perspective of the team and of its leader, to win the TdF GC.

you know, Musette, pre 1999 and the USPS model, it was unthinkable that a team wouldn't have the full compliment of climbers, sprinters, rouleurs and a GC contender - and those GC contenders could actually win the Tour whilst their sprinter took stages!!!. I appreciate how inconceivable this must be for you, never having heard of cycling before at least 1999, possibly later, but I implore you, once again, to look to the past - gain an appreciation for the past glories of a sport that is becoming ever more devalued by the pernicious spectre of 'specialisation'. I mean, under your model, riders who were worth anything would only ever race once a year anyway....

I notice you don't respond to my comments about Hincapie...