Race mishaps?

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Hardt said:

2003 Pineman Triathlon: Organizers delay the start of the race almost an
hour due to heavy fog. About 20 minutes after the race finally starts, a
change in air temperature causes the low-lying clouds to suddeenly settle
back onto the lake reducing visibility to less than 50 yards and
obscuring
the course markers. Many participants are left in the middle of the lake
unsure which direction to swim. A quick-thinking ambulance driver turns
on
his siren to guide people back to shore. Most participants make a b-line
toward the siren (understandably) cutting the course. Race organizers
announce to all participants as they leave the water that the swim has
been
cancelled and their official race time will start at the T1 exit.
Participants take their sweet time regrouping in T1. Organizer includes
swim and T1 in the official results anyway. Unlike Harold, I AM bitter.

Actually, I was bitter, but not as bitter as I'd have been about your
race. How the %$#@ can you count the swim results when no one swam the
right course?!

It wasn't that _no one_ swam the right course. It's that _almost_ no one
swam the right course (I did, I think) - which is even worse. There were
swim times all over the board for that race. You know, at the end of the
day though I wasn't all that peeved about the swim issue. The fog was an
act of God and everyone out there (racers and volunteers alike) were just
trying to do the best they could. I was actually more bitter about the fact
that I (an many others) were told not to worry about T1. It sucks to have
an 8 minute T1 factored into your race time when you're not expecting it -
and that was completely avoidable.

Quoted message said:

I've seen some of this sort of thing in United States Lifesaving
Association events. One year at the regional tournament, they said that
there would be two heats for the paddleboard race. Then, after the two
heats, they announced that they weren't going to do a final and were
just going to award the medals based on the times from the two heats. My
friend was unchallenged in his heat and tried to save himself for the
final, while the other heat was hotly contested and of course had faster
times. Even disregarding the fact that you not only didn't get to race
against your competitors--and didn't know you should be going all
out--you can't do this kind of thing in ocean racing anyway, since
people in different heats are affected differently by surf.

Quoted message said:

2004 Deer Creek Triathlon: Race organizers post a volunteeer at a
turn-around point along a dead end road. Volunteer blows the assignment
and
lets nearly the entire field pass the turnaround, continuing almost 3
miles
before reaching the road's dead-end where participants finally turn
around
in a cul-de-sac. Total length of the Olympic Distance bike course ends
up
over 30 miles.

Some volunteers don't pay attention and should be shot.

The vast majority deserve our gratitude and respect. But a small
minority... BANG!

The people who really made out on the Deer Creek situation where the select
few that knew the course well enough to ignore what they were seeing and
turn around at the right place. Nothing like taking 6 miles off the bike
course to move up a few spots in the standings, eh? (I wasn't among them).
The organizer determined that per USAT rules it was the participants
responsibility to know the course (can't argue with him on that one).

One that I forgot about:

My wife did a half marathon last year where they had girl scouts and boy
scouts manning the aid stations. The young kids apparently got bored with
holding up two cups and shouting "water!... gatorade!" so they started
entertaining themselves by adding fictional beverages into the mix. Every
aid station had kids holding up cups shouting "Beer!"... "Milk!"...
"Pickle Juice!"... Man, my wife (who can't stomach gatorade) was [censored].
I blame the organizer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2002 Boilerman Triahtlon: Run course crosses a railroad track - twice.
Train arrives during the run leg causing the gates to go down and holding
up
competitors - twice.

I've done races where this was a possibility, but it didn't actually
happen. You wonder if there's some way to put a championship mat on
either side of the tracks to adjust the times somehow.

Nice thought. But I'll bet people would whine that competitors who were
stopped by the train received an unfair "rest" without penalty.

John

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Hardt said:

My wife did a half marathon last year where they had girl scouts and boy
scouts manning the aid stations. The young kids apparently got bored with
holding up two cups and shouting "water!... gatorade!" so they started
entertaining themselves by adding fictional beverages into the mix. Every
aid station had kids holding up cups shouting "Beer!"... "Milk!"...
"Pickle Juice!"... Man, my wife (who can't stomach gatorade) was [censored].
I blame the organizer.

I did an international-distance triathlon where some of the water
stations on the run consisted of a cooler of water and a stack of empty
cups. Stop and fill your own!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2002 Boilerman Triahtlon: Run course crosses a railroad track - twice.
Train arrives during the run leg causing the gates to go down and holding
up
competitors - twice.

I've done races where this was a possibility, but it didn't actually
happen. You wonder if there's some way to put a championship mat on
either side of the tracks to adjust the times somehow.

Nice thought. But I'll bet people would whine that competitors who were
stopped by the train received an unfair "rest" without penalty.

That thought had occurred to me as well; you'd have to fudge that in,
and still not everyone would be happy. But at least it would be more
fair.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Hardt said:

My wife did a half marathon last year where they had girl scouts and boy
scouts manning the aid stations. The young kids apparently got bored with
holding up two cups and shouting "water!... gatorade!" so they started
entertaining themselves by adding fictional beverages into the mix. Every
aid station had kids holding up cups shouting "Beer!"... "Milk!"...
"Pickle Juice!"... Man, my wife (who can't stomach gatorade) was [censored].
I blame the organizer.

I did an international-distance triathlon where some of the water
stations on the run consisted of a cooler of water and a stack of empty
cups. Stop and fill your own!

since i'm in no danger of even getting close to the front
runners, i relax at the water stations. drink a full cup.
even two. joke with the volunteers. and after a couple of minutes,
i run off much refreshed. if i want, i can mentally
subtract a couple of minutes at the end, but i figure
i was able to run faster for a while due to the lengthy break.
so it averages out.
i do understand that some folk are counting seconds. not me.
i'm enjoying all of them.
....thehick

John Hardt said:

My wife did a half marathon last year where they had girl scouts and boy
scouts manning the aid stations. The young kids apparently got bored with
holding up two cups and shouting "water!... gatorade!" so they started
entertaining themselves by adding fictional beverages into the mix. Every
aid station had kids holding up cups shouting "Beer!"... "Milk!"...
"Pickle Juice!"... Man, my wife (who can't stomach gatorade) was [censored].
I blame the organizer.

I was in a race once where there where little kids who were manning an
aid station, and they were putting the used sponges in the Gatorade to
throw at each other, and you couldn't get anything to drink, not that
you would want it after seeing that. It really upset me, because I
really needed a drink at that time and I couldn't even get close to the
table. Of course this happened on the same day that I forgot my Gatorade
in the car, and my gels.

What I like is when a volunteer holds something out for you, without
being a door/wall to go around. I made this mistake on my first
volunteering position at an IMC aid station, before realizing it is very
hard for an athlete to run around me. It bothered me to realize this
because I was trying so hard to be helpful, and there I was actually
getting in the way. So I very much appreciate seeing volunteers hold
their products out in front of me, rather than standing in front of me.

John Hardt said:

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some volunteers don't pay attention and should be shot.

The vast majority deserve our gratitude and respect. But a small
minority... BANG!

The blame belongs at a higher level - just like for poor service at a
restaurant or store.

Poor training and poor supervision are the culprits. That's
management's responsibility. I may get peeved at a poor waiter or
waitress, (or water stop volunteer) but I get mad at (and blame) the
owner/manager/race director.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Mike Tennent said:

John Hardt said:

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some volunteers don't pay attention and should be shot.

The vast majority deserve our gratitude and respect. But a small
minority... BANG!

The blame belongs at a higher level - just like for poor service at a
restaurant or store.

Poor training and poor supervision are the culprits. That's
management's responsibility. I may get peeved at a poor waiter or
waitress, (or water stop volunteer) but I get mad at (and blame) the
owner/manager/race director.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Nice example. Some people use "poor service" as an excuse for a "poor
tip".

If patrons/participants are not willing to discuss the nature of their
disappointment with the manager, race director, whomever is in charge -
- keep it to yourself.

rsquared

Mike Tennent said:

John Hardt said:

"Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some volunteers don't pay attention and should be shot.

The vast majority deserve our gratitude and respect. But a small
minority... BANG!

The blame belongs at a higher level - just like for poor service at a
restaurant or store.

Poor training and poor supervision are the culprits. That's
management's responsibility. I may get peeved at a poor waiter or
waitress, (or water stop volunteer) but I get mad at (and blame) the
owner/manager/race director.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

I agree that it is the race director's job to make changes to insure an
inconsiderate volunteer is not asked back to help out, but I don't think
that you can blame the race director for a particular volunteer's
actions (unless the volunteer was not shown what to do and how to do it).

I've seen Boyscouts at a ski race really screw up an aid station because
they were playing around and ignoring the racers. Their Scoutmaster was
just letting it happen. I blame the Scoutmaster for that screwup, not
the race director. They haven't been asked back, so the problem was
dealt with.

Sometimes things just happen. I did a 5K/10K run where the volunteers
at the crucial spot sent all 10K AND 5K racers out onto the 10K course.
I know the race director and he is as conscientious a guy as you will
ever meet. The volunteers (their were two of them) swore that they knew
where to go and what to do, but clearly they didn't. The next year, the
race director, himself, was at that spot on the course.

Some times unfortunate things happen. It can be the death blow to an
otherwise great race if the mistake is big enough. As a race director,
I've been fortunate that nothing terrible has gone wrong in my races,
but I think that I'm just lucky. I believe that most, if not all, race
directors do all that they can to make their event safe and fun and
accurate. Most are volunteering their time and rely on other volunteers
to make the event run smoothly. So, try to cut them some slack, and
understand that they mean well.

OK, that's my two-cents worth. Thanks for letting me rant 🙂

Bob

Mike Tennent said:

The blame belongs at a higher level - just like for poor service at a
restaurant or store.

Poor training and poor supervision are the culprits. That's
management's responsibility. I may get peeved at a poor waiter or
waitress, (or water stop volunteer) but I get mad at (and blame) the
owner/manager/race director.

You know, I have never thought of it like that before. If I have a poor
waitress or food, I blamed the waitress or the cook. hmm. Thanks for
that fresh outlook. You are right, it is up to management to train
properly, and make sure that they have quality staff who live up to
their standards. Although, sometimes there are slip ups due to human
error that occur that management is responsible for, but may not be at
fault with at that time.

In article <[email hidden]>,

rsquared said:

Nice example. Some people use "poor service" as an excuse for a "poor
tip".

If patrons/participants are not willing to discuss the nature of their
disappointment with the manager, race director, whomever is in charge -
- keep it to yourself.

One day, we had awful service at a bar/restaurant. The crushing blow was
when one of my dining companions finally got her sandwich and asked,
"Could I please get a pickle to go with my sandwich?" and the waitress
said "I could get you one, but that would be too much trouble!" You
know, I have a hard time blaming that on poor training.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck said:

One day, we had awful service at a bar/restaurant. The crushing blow was
when one of my dining companions finally got her sandwich and asked,
"Could I please get a pickle to go with my sandwich?" and the waitress
said "I could get you one, but that would be too much trouble!" You
know, I have a hard time blaming that on poor training.

Why? That's exactly what it is. Poor training, poor expectations, poor
standards - all are determined by management.

The management there obviously accepted her low standard of service
rather than correcting it or firing her. She was operating within her
boss's expectations.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Bob Haase said:

I agree that it is the race director's job to make changes to insure an
inconsiderate volunteer is not asked back to help out, but I don't think
that you can blame the race director for a particular volunteer's
actions (unless the volunteer was not shown what to do and how to do it).

I'm an experienced Race Director (and a Superintendent of a National
Park unit.) In both jobs, I'm ultimately responsible for the actions
of everyone under me. I either accept that or I shouldn't take the
job.

It's the RD's job to make sure the volunteers are properly trained and
know what their job is. I agree that sometimes screw-ups happen -
someone is told what to do and then just doesn't do it. But that's
rare.

Quoted message said:

I've seen Boyscouts at a ski race really screw up an aid station because
they were playing around and ignoring the racers. Their Scoutmaster was
just letting it happen. I blame the Scoutmaster for that screwup, not
the race director. They haven't been asked back, so the problem was
dealt with.

Sorry, I'd blame both. If they'd never worked a race, they should have
been better supervised and monitored to make sure they were doing the
job. That's the RD's responsibility.

Quoted message said:

I believe that most, if not all, race
directors do all that they can to make their event safe and fun and
accurate. Most are volunteering their time and rely on other volunteers
to make the event run smoothly. So, try to cut them some slack, and
understand that they mean well.

Hey, nobody said being an RD is easy. I've directed 10-15 races and
have managed other aspects of many more, so I've walked the walk. The
RD is always ultimately responsible.

Have there been screw-ups at my races? Sure. Fortunately they've all
been minor, but I can always track it right back to me not
double-checking, or my assuming someone knew what they were supposed
to do. I've learned not to give important jobs to newcomers or certain
people. That's part of learning to be an RD.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

"Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob Haase said:

I agree that it is the race director's job to make changes to insure an
inconsiderate volunteer is not asked back to help out, but I don't think
that you can blame the race director for a particular volunteer's
actions (unless the volunteer was not shown what to do and how to do it).

I'm an experienced Race Director (and a Superintendent of a National
Park unit.) In both jobs, I'm ultimately responsible for the actions
of everyone under me. I either accept that or I shouldn't take the
job.

It's the RD's job to make sure the volunteers are properly trained and
know what their job is. I agree that sometimes screw-ups happen -
someone is told what to do and then just doesn't do it. But that's
rare.

Quoted message said:

I've seen Boyscouts at a ski race really screw up an aid station because
they were playing around and ignoring the racers. Their Scoutmaster was
just letting it happen. I blame the Scoutmaster for that screwup, not
the race director. They haven't been asked back, so the problem was
dealt with.

Sorry, I'd blame both. If they'd never worked a race, they should have
been better supervised and monitored to make sure they were doing the
job. That's the RD's responsibility.

Quoted message said:

I believe that most, if not all, race
directors do all that they can to make their event safe and fun and
accurate. Most are volunteering their time and rely on other volunteers
to make the event run smoothly. So, try to cut them some slack, and
understand that they mean well.

Hey, nobody said being an RD is easy. I've directed 10-15 races and
have managed other aspects of many more, so I've walked the walk. The
RD is always ultimately responsible.

Have there been screw-ups at my races? Sure. Fortunately they've all
been minor, but I can always track it right back to me not

just make sure the rules for collecting prize money are clear and crisp

Quoted message said:

double-checking, or my assuming someone knew what they were supposed
to do. I've learned not to give important jobs to newcomers or certain
people. That's part of learning to be an RD.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Tennent said:

Harold Buck said:

One day, we had awful service at a bar/restaurant. The crushing blow was
when one of my dining companions finally got her sandwich and asked,
"Could I please get a pickle to go with my sandwich?" and the waitress
said "I could get you one, but that would be too much trouble!" You
know, I have a hard time blaming that on poor training.

Why? That's exactly what it is. Poor training, poor expectations, poor
standards - all are determined by management.

The management there obviously accepted her low standard of service
rather than correcting it or firing her. She was operating within her
boss's expectations.

I'm not saying that the management should have accepted her lousy
behavior. But I got the impression that one of the posters was saying
that you shouldn't take poor service out of the server's tip, and in
this case I don't think it makes any sense to say, "Well, she only said
that brining me a pickle would be too much trouble because she was
trained poorly, so I'll still tip 20%." If I get service that willfullt
poor, there won't be much of a tip.

OTOH, I'm not one of these people looking for any excuse to hack down
the tip.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Uh, isn't the 2005 Chicago Marathon a little more than 3 months from
now? Ah, you mean the Lakeshore Marathon?

Harold Buck said:

I'm not saying that the management should have accepted her lousy
behavior. But I got the impression that one of the posters was saying
that you shouldn't take poor service out of the server's tip, and in
this case I don't think it makes any sense to say, "Well, she only said
that brining me a pickle would be too much trouble because she was
trained poorly, so I'll still tip 20%." If I get service that willfullt
poor, there won't be much of a tip.

Oh, I agree completely. Poor service should have negative
consequences.

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Mike Hunt said:

just make sure the rules for collecting prize money are clear and crisp

LOL

Mike T.
"IronPenguin"