Race Radios and 2003 USCF rules

Quoted message said:

Subject: Race Radios and 2003 USCF rules

Quoted message said:

How do we protest this rule? We need to protest this rule.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE [censored] KIDDING ME?

RIGHT?

YOU NEED A RADIO IN A CAT 3 RACE? WHAT THE [censored] FOR? TO ASK YOUR "DIRECTOR" IF ITS TIME TO BRING
BACK THE BREAK IN YOUR 15 MILE OFFICE PARK CRIT?

JESUS, JUST RIDE AT THE FRONT AND USE YOUR BRAIN FOR GODS SAKE. THE RULE IS JUST AS MUCH ABOUT
TEACHING YOU ABOUT RACING YOUR BIKE AS IT IS ABOUT YOU RIDING SAFELY.

OH, AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THAT YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT HOW TO RACE, THEN
A) WHAT DO YOU NEED THE RADIO FOR, AND B) WHY ARE YOU STILL A 4?

THANKS SHARON

ps: I was gonna start typing normally again, but douchebags like this just [censored] me off too much.
Maybe Avon was right, and I do have some anger management issues......

y2kc0wb0y said:

This year a new rule was posted and approved by the USCF.org regarding the use of radios during
any non Pro1/2 race. This rule includes Cat3 racers down.

Can you still listen to MiniDisc players while you race?

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This year a new rule was posted and approved by the USCF.org

regarding the

Quoted message said:

use of radios during any non Pro1/2 race. This rule includes Cat3 racers down.

Personally, I cannot remember one race related crash last year

related to

Quoted message said:

race radios. I raced the entire season Cat 4

What makes you think the rule is about crashes? It might be aimed at encouraging riders to learn how
to race by using their own eyes.

JT

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"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This year a new rule was posted and approved by the USCF.org regarding the use of radios during
any non Pro1/2 race. This rule includes Cat3 racers down.

Personally, I cannot remember one race related crash last year related to race radios. I raced the
entire season Cat 4 and never had a single problem within our 50 plus rider fields where some
turkey took a rider(s) out because he had to tell his Director Sportif that he wasn't going up the
road because he was tried.

However, I can remember a few crashes trying to grab a water bottle and OOPs.. dropping it
from say the 5th or 6th spot into a nice crowd of 50 or 60 zone 5 racers... Ouch! .. I didn't
don't mom!

I am of the opinion that this rule is good for Cat4 down because honestly if you reach Cat3 status
I think your well on your way to mastering the handling of your bike.

What's next? No water bottles for anybody but Pro/1/2... I mean geez!!!

How do we protest this rule? We need to protest this rule. [email hidden]

I think we need to protest this as well, so that dropped riders who didn't pay attention to the
course can radio in and get directions back to start.

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This year a new rule was posted and approved by the USCF.org

regarding the

Quoted message said:

use of radios during any non Pro1/2 race. This rule includes Cat3 racers down.

Personally, I cannot remember one race related crash last year

related to

Quoted message said:

race radios. I raced the entire season Cat 4

What makes you think the rule is about crashes? It might be aimed at encouraging riders to learn
how to race by using their own eyes.

JT

If this rule was made in conjunction with crashes, then I'd have to agree. I was in several races
this past season where some dumb ass took his hands off of his bars in a large group to [censored] with
his radio and then took several others down with him for being stupid. I personally lost a good set
of race wheels and a lot of skin to one person for doing this. He was messing with his earpiece (in
a cat 3 race mind you), and hit one of those reflectors in the middle of the road, went down, took
me and 6 other people with him. He didn't even offer an apology after I cussed him out loudly enough
for everyone and God to hear. Didn't even offer to pay for my wrecked and destroyed $1000 wheelset.
Sure it's racing, and if I'm riding expensive stuff and crash and it gets wrecked, that's part of
the game right. But if someone destroys it for me by being stupid, someone needs to cough up some
dough. Aside from causing crashes, who are these guys talking to during this race? Their teammates,
whom they can see directly in front of them anyway as the groups are usually no larger than 50
people anyway. I'm not a fan of radios in a cat 3 race, and nobody really should be. Sure we want to
be like the pros, but damn Jimmy, you'll be alright without your Motorola.

Tom

"Tom Arsenault" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

(details of getting "caught" in crash snipped)

Quoted message said:

But if someone destroys it for me by being stupid, someone needs to cough up some dough.

Right..... (I'm being sarcastic)

JT

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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How do we protest this rule? We need to protest this rule.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE [censored] KIDDING ME?

RIGHT?

YOU NEED A RADIO IN A CAT 3 RACE? WHAT THE [censored] FOR? TO ASK YOUR "DIRECTOR" IF ITS TIME TO BRING
BACK THE BREAK IN YOUR 15 MILE OFFICE PARK CRIT?

JESUS, JUST RIDE AT THE FRONT AND USE YOUR BRAIN FOR GODS SAKE. THE RULE IS JUST AS MUCH ABOUT
TEACHING YOU ABOUT RACING YOUR BIKE AS IT IS ABOUT YOU RIDING SAFELY.

OH, AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THAT YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT HOW TO RACE, THEN
A) WHAT DO YOU NEED THE RADIO FOR, AND B) WHY ARE YOU STILL A 4?

THANKS SHARON

ps: I was gonna start typing normally again, but douchebags like this just [censored] me off too much.
Maybe Avon was right, and I do have some anger management issues......

Sharon, I am sorry that you feel strongly about this argument and feel a need to insult the comment;
however, that is your right and will not hold it against you. I can see how bicycle racing might be
good for your anger management.
A)For the issue of why does our team or any team need a race radio I say this should be obivous to
you an many like you since the best racers use a radio. Organization and communication. During any
giving race if you communicate your plans to a team mate out loud right next to him/her your going
to blow your plan before it even starts. I suppose we should use hand signals?
A1) Flexibility. During any given race a well thought out pre-race plan can and often changes. As in
business, like racing, you need to be able to adapt quickly to insure success. A3) Advice. If
you have had any experience in coaching, you'll relize that coaches see things differently from
the sidelines. That intelligence per say is valuable information to communicate into the team
... don't you think? Of course you think. B) As for why I am Cat 4 still, that alone is my
burden and mine only to bare. I will say this...Masters racing doesn't give points to USCF
categories.

I still think this rule is bogus.

y2kc0wb0y

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A)For the issue of why does our team or any team need a race radio I say this should be obivous to
you an many like you since the best racers use a radio.

Here is the difference....the best racers do use radios, but you--like me--are a Cat 4. In case you
have not figured it out, if you're a Cat 4, you are not one of the best. Not even close. If you or I
were good enough to need radios, we would have radios.

" Tim Mullin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A)For the issue of why does our team or any team need a race radio I say this should be obivous
to you an many like you since the best racers use a radio.

Here is the difference....the best racers do use radios, but you--like me--are a Cat 4. In case
you have not figured it out, if you're a Cat 4, you are not one of the best. Not even close. If
you or I were good enough to need radios, we would have radios.

I don't really think this issue is about being the best or racing with the best. I think we are
discusing safety. I will again state that you can just as easily drop a water bottle and cause a
crash or even cause a crash because your drinking from a water bottle as you can from que'in the mic
on a race radio. Cat 4 or Cat 1. [censored] happens. As for being the best, I consider myself lucky to
practice a healthy lifestyle and that's all. I have no plans of turning Pro at 32. I am competely
happy racing at my level. I have a sub hour 40k TT and that is my only personal goal I strive for
each season. Beyond that I race for my teammates only. DOMESTIQUE... hence the race radio issue.

[email hidden] (y2kc0wb0y) wrote: <cut>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A)For the issue of why does our team or any team need a race radio I say this should be
obivous to you an many like you since the best racers use a radio.

Quoted message said:

<cut>

I don't really think this issue is about being the best or racing with the best. I think we are
discusing safety. <cut>

I'm having trouble keeping up with whether you're discussing others who use radios who happen to be
the best, or are you discussing safety? Did you rack up a bunch of victories with your radios last
year? What secret plan did you carry out that didn't become painfully obvious when you or one of
your teammates started to ride faster? I'm assuming that there isn't too much planning needed when
you or a teammate is already off the front winning the race.

If you really cared about this, you and your club, oops, I mean "team" would have known that it was
up for discussion during the USA Cycling rules revision process, and you would have participated.
You don't care, so you're here whining on the internet, which never accomplishes anything at all.

I know this is against the rules, but have you thought about selling those things over on r.b.m?

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I don't really think this issue is about being the best or racing with the best. I think we are
discusing safety.

I am not discussing safety. I am talking about practicality. Are there really that many (any?) races
a 3 or 4 can compete in that radios will really make a difference in? How many teams in those races
are organized and/or strong enough to take advantage of radios? Damn few, from the races I've been
in or watched.

[email hidden] (Sharon Peters) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Race Radios and 2003 USCF rules

Quoted message said:

How do we protest this rule? We need to protest this rule.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE [censored] KIDDING ME?

RIGHT?

YOU NEED A RADIO IN A CAT 3 RACE? WHAT THE [censored] FOR? TO ASK YOUR "DIRECTOR" IF ITS TIME TO BRING
BACK THE BREAK IN YOUR 15 MILE OFFICE PARK CRIT?

JESUS, JUST RIDE AT THE FRONT AND USE YOUR BRAIN FOR GODS SAKE. THE RULE IS JUST AS MUCH ABOUT
TEACHING YOU ABOUT RACING YOUR BIKE AS IT IS ABOUT YOU RIDING SAFELY.

OH, AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THAT YOU KNOW ALL ABOUT HOW TO RACE, THEN
A) WHAT DO YOU NEED THE RADIO FOR, AND B) WHY ARE YOU STILL A 4?

THANKS SHARON

ps: I was gonna start typing normally again, but douchebags like this just [censored] me off too much.
Maybe Avon was right, and I do have some anger management issues......

IS IT JUST ME OR IS IT HOT WHEN SHARON GETS ALL MAD AND TALKS WITH A FILTHY MOUTH?

ROD KINGSTON 1ST PLACE 2002 WINDY HILLS CYCLING CHALLENGE 4TH PLACE COMPOSTING CORP RACE FOR FREEDOM
2002 5TH 20 YARD FOOT RACE, RECESS, 5TH GRADE

Quoted message said:

I know this is against the rules, but have you thought about selling those things over on r.b.m?

Teehehee... That's funny.

Tim, I agree that in some circumstance race radios are not a logical choice; however, USCF didn't
make this choice to remove radios on a need only basis. They made their decision based entirely on
safety. Therefore, I state if you make it to Cat3 your well on your way to mastery of your skills
during racing conditions: including que'in a mic on a RR.

I will again say that your just as likely to crash a bike(in a race) reaching for a water bottle as
you are que'in your mic.

y2kc0wb0y

Quoted message said:

I am not discussing safety. I am talking about practicality. Are there really that many (any?)
races a 3 or 4 can compete in that radios will really make a difference in? How many teams in
those races are organized and/or strong enough to take advantage of radios? Damn few, from the
races I've been in or watched.

In article <[email hidden]>, y2kc0wb0y

Quoted message said:

Tim, I agree that in some circumstance race radios are not a logical choice; however, USCF didn't
make this choice to remove radios on a need only basis. They made their decision based entirely on
safety. Therefore, I state if you make it to Cat3 your well on your way to mastery of your skills
during racing conditions: including que'in a mic on a RR.

Are you a mind reader? Have you talked to each of the USCF Board members who voted for this rule
change? If not then how do you know on what basis this rule change was adopted? I'm sure there are
several different reasons why USCF Board members voted for this rule change. I'm sure safety was on
reason but it probably wasn't the only reason.

Casey

Casey Kerrigan <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, y2kc0wb0y
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Casey, You're right .. I don't read minds. I need to address the source. I shall return
with a quote.

The new rule makes about as much practical sense as the old rule mandating black shorts.

Not that I think very many Cat 3-5's have much use for radios.

I think this speaks more to the federation'sattitude of shunning grass-roots racers in favor of the
elite riders. I say: if they wanna play "pro" and shell out a few bucks for a stupid radio system,
let 'em. Why step on them? To remind them that they're mere newbies (or that they suck)?

Personally, I always get a chuckle when my "teammates" (ha) call me over to talk 'strategy' before
the big Cat 4/5 races ("ok, we're all working for tommy today, he only needs one more upgrade
point"😉...Uh yeah, like my yelling "Flyer left" is going to [censored] help him. If he sprints real
hard, then he'll do well. But they seem to enjoy thinking they're just like Lance's team. So why
burst their bubble?

I also don't see how banning radios will help the radio manufacturers any.

I say the next move they should make would be to ban Spinergy's. I hate looking at the friggin
annoying things. Too distracting. A cat 5 could crash looking at one of those.

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This year a new rule was posted and approved by the USCF.org regarding the use of radios during
any non Pro1/2 race. This rule includes Cat3 racers down.

Personally, I cannot remember one race related crash last year related to race radios. I raced the
entire season Cat 4 and never had a single problem within our 50 plus rider fields where some
turkey took a rider(s) out because he had to tell his Director Sportif that he wasn't going up the
road because he was tried.

However, I can remember a few crashes trying to grab a water bottle and OOPs.. dropping it
from say the 5th or 6th spot into a nice crowd of 50 or 60 zone 5 racers... Ouch! .. I didn't
don't mom!

I am of the opinion that this rule is good for Cat4 down because honestly if you reach Cat3 status
I think your well on your way to mastering the handling of your bike.

What's next? No water bottles for anybody but Pro/1/2... I mean geez!!!

How do we protest this rule? We need to protest this rule. [email hidden]

Why have the radios at all then? Sounds like they are just plain dangerous. If a cat 3 can crash
[censored] with an earpiece, then certainly some sprinter from [censored] Oklahoma can too.

[email hidden] (Tom Arsenault) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This year a new rule was posted and approved by the USCF.org

regarding the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use of radios during any non Pro1/2 race. This rule includes Cat3 racers down.

Personally, I cannot remember one race related crash last year

related to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

race radios. I raced the entire season Cat 4

What makes you think the rule is about crashes? It might be aimed at encouraging riders to learn
how to race by using their own eyes.

JT

If this rule was made in conjunction with crashes, then I'd have to agree. I was in several races
this past season where some dumb ass took his hands off of his bars in a large group to [censored] with
his radio and then took several others down with him for being stupid. I personally lost a good
set of race wheels and a lot of skin to one person for doing this. He was messing with his
earpiece (in a cat 3 race mind you), and hit one of those reflectors in the middle of the road,
went down, took me and 6 other people with him. He didn't even offer an apology after I cussed him
out loudly enough for everyone and God to hear. Didn't even offer to pay for my wrecked and
destroyed $1000 wheelset. Sure it's racing, and if I'm riding expensive stuff and crash and it
gets wrecked, that's part of the game right. But if someone destroys it for me by being stupid,
someone needs to cough up some dough. Aside from causing crashes, who are these guys talking to
during this race? Their teammates, whom they can see directly in front of them anyway as the
groups are usually no larger than 50 people anyway. I'm not a fan of radios in a cat 3 race, and
nobody really should be. Sure we want to be like the pros, but damn Jimmy, you'll be alright
without your Motorola.

Tom

"y2kc0wb0y" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tim, I agree that in some circumstance race radios are not a logical

Some? How about most? In pro races, where you have fields well in excess of 100 riders, and a
caravan of team cars, radios make sense. How many Masters or 3/4 races meet those standards? I don't
believe most elite fields need radios either, btw.

Quoted message said:

choice; however, USCF didn't make this choice to remove radios on a need only basis.

No they didn't, but since they are allowed in pro races, and often you'll have a Pro/1/2 field, it
makes sense to allow elite-level amatures to use them at least some of the time.

Quoted message said:

They made their decision based entirely on safety.

An how, exactly, did you come to this conclusion?