Re:

On 25/11/04 12:15 am, in article [email hidden],

Just zis Guy said:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:27:25 -0000, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Please note (again), the requirement for a good marksman. With the
correct tools, two rounds can be fired in little more time than one.
This is not a "normal" skill and thus should be left to the
professionals.

I am an average shot at best and had little difficulty putting a round
into the bullseye at 150 yards with a SMLE. My shooting instructor
specialised in shooting the markers out at that range. Two shots
should not be necessary.

Now try it at variable range with a moving target.. Whilst riding a bicycle
(too drag it from the far reaches of OT).

Quoted message said:

At 50 yards with a .22 I could get a group of ten all well within the
9 ring, but at 25 yards I had a hard time hitting anything at all with
a pistol :-)

Shotguns are a different matter...

You not only hit the bull, you hit the cow in the next field as well..

...d

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 23:20:41 -0000,

Jon Senior jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

Al C-F [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

The foxes right to life, love and the pursuit of happiness? Dignity?
Self-realisation?

The foxe's right to the rights that we (supposedly) accord to other
animals, including the preclusion of unneccessary suffering.

Well some people do not believe in animal rights esp. wrt wild animals.
It is much better to phrase the above as "people have the responsibility
NOT to cause unnecessary suffering and certainly not to revel in another
being's suffering". But maybe that is because I am slightly old-fashioned
in that I believe rights go hand-in-hand with responsibilities.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shotguns are a different matter...

You not only hit the bull, you hit the cow in the next field as well..

Yeah, but with the rifle you hit some poor sod half a mile away as well..

(I'm guessing foxes don't stop bullets very well)

Mark Thompson said:

Yeah, but with the rifle you hit some poor sod half a mile away as well..

(I'm guessing foxes don't stop bullets very well)

But the surrounding countryside will. I'd be /very/ surprised if you
could find a trajectory from a commanding firing position through a fox
that subsequently allowed for half a mile, or even more than a few tens
of meters, of travel for the bullet.
If it was a problem it would already be a problem.

Pete
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

[Fox hunting] is extraordinarily inefficient!

Sort of, Guy, but it ain't the guy that wants rid of the foxes that pays
for it. In that respect it's as good as killing foxes with cars - horribly
inefficient but free for the farmer.

Jon Senior said:

And I don't try to start vegetarians on to meat.

Don't have to. Just stand near them while eating a bacon sandwich...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
If God had meant us to be vegetarians, He wouldn't have made animals out of
meat

MartinM said:

Dave Larrington said:

MartinM said:

anyone who exercises more control over their diet feel free to call
me a charleton ;-)

I fort vey wuz a saarf Lunnon footie team...

no such thing ;-)

Oh. I think Dr Larrington needs to start asking some penetrating questions
concerning where her husband is /really/ going every other weekend, in that
case...

Quoted message said:

No it's a dance from the 20's

Snk!

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Dave Larrington said:

Don't have to. Just stand near them while eating a bacon sandwich...

A Urbane Mythe: it never bothered me while I was a veggie, since though
bacon is nice, it isn't as nice as the /smell/.

What eventually pulled me around to trying meat again after slightly
over a decade was being offered some freshly shot and cooked pheasant
and venison, which tastes much better than a bacon buttie. What put the
final nail in the coffin was skiing ~20km with a heavy pack, mostly into
a headwind and slightly uphill, and on arrival at Geigercounter Hytte
being offered a choice of fish soup followed by a mountain of elkburger
with some bread and veg on the side or the same without the fish soup
and elkburger, since I'd forgotten to order to a veggie meal (I might
have remembered if the hut warden hadn't followed up "Would you like
dinner?" with "the war's started!"😉.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

MartinM said:

I'm a really bad vegetarian, Quorn, Morningstar and Linda Mc C do well out
of me; after several yeras of trying to get creative with a turnip it's back
to toad in the hole and Quorn chilli; but I avoid non free range eggs.

What's wrong with Quorn, etc?

Quoted message said:

Leather, well I eat and drink dairy products so.....
and I eat fish
anyone who exercises more control over their diet feel free to call me a
charleton ;-)

No criticism of your dietary choices intended, but as a lifelong member
of the Pedantry Society I can't help but point out that if you eat fish,
you are, by definition, not a vegetarian. Although I can understand why
it might often be easier to call yourself one in social situations.

It was a bugbear of mine when I first went veggie back in the eighties
though - I lost count of the times I asked for a veggie option in a
pub/caff etc and was offered fish. The urge to ask what plant they
thought fish grew on was nearly overwhelming at times.

--
Carol
"I was just being a little teapot. It's a bad habit of mine"
- Wyvern, Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased).

Carol Hague said:

What's wrong with Quorn, etc?

It's okay, but it isn't what you want to eat the whole time.

In another sense there is the problem that if you cook as a veggie using
a meat substitute then you're really asking to be sorely disappointed
IMHO and IME. Quorn is, like I just said, okay, but it isn't the same
as, say, a tender piece of lamb, so it can't adequately substitute for
it. If you're going veggie better to look for /alternatives/ than
substitutes: cook things which work fine without meat, or anything like
meat, in other words, and appreciate those ingredients for what they are
and what they do best.

I'm happy to eat Quorn etc., and use it as Just Another Ingredient where
I think it'll work, but I don't see them as very good ways to replace
meat. It's like replacing a Moulton with an RSW16 and getting told that
they're both small wheel bikes so not to worry that one's much harder to
get going than the other....

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jon Senior said:

And I don't try to start vegetarians on to meat.

Don't have to. Just stand near them while eating a bacon sandwich...

Morningstar streaky strips (they also do back now as well), also you don't
get the noxious chemical and fat smell associated wit the real thing ;-)

"Carol Hague" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

I'm a really bad vegetarian, Quorn, Morningstar and Linda Mc C do well

out

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of me; after several yeras of trying to get creative with a turnip it's

back

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to toad in the hole and Quorn chilli; but I avoid non free range eggs.

What's wrong with Quorn, etc?

Quoted message said:

Leather, well I eat and drink dairy products so.....
and I eat fish
anyone who exercises more control over their diet feel free to call me a
charleton ;-)

No criticism of your dietary choices intended, but as a lifelong member
of the Pedantry Society I can't help but point out that if you eat fish,
you are, by definition, not a vegetarian. Although I can understand why
it might often be easier to call yourself one in social situations.

It was a bugbear of mine when I first went veggie back in the eighties
though - I lost count of the times I asked for a veggie option in a
pub/caff etc and was offered fish. The urge to ask what plant they
thought fish grew on was nearly overwhelming at times.

I went to Russia servile years ago; having put on the booking form that I
only ate fish the rep greeted me with "but you do eat chicken as well?" you
should have seen her face drop when I said no ;-)

"Dave Larrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

Dave Larrington said:

MartinM wrote:

> anyone who exercises more control over their diet feel free to call
> me a charleton ;-)

I fort vey wuz a saarf Lunnon footie team...

no such thing ;-)

Oh. I think Dr Larrington needs to start asking some penetrating

questions

Quoted message said:

concerning where her husband is /really/ going every other weekend, in

that

Quoted message said:

case...

well go on name one ;-)
reminds me of a t shirt they used to sell in caving shops;
"please don't tell my mum I go caving, she thinks I spend my weekends in a
brothel"

MartinM said:

reminds me of a t shirt they used to sell in caving shops;
"please don't tell my mum I go caving, she thinks I spend my weekends
in a brothel"

Or the time at some posho boarding school when Teach is asking all the
girlies what Pater does for a living. There is shock and awe when one says
that her father plays the piano in a brothel. When asked, after class,
whether this is indeed true, she replies that it most certainly is not, but
she didn't want to let on to Teach that he actually owned the "Daily
Mirror".

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Peter Clinch said:

A Urbane Mythe: it never bothered me while I was a veggie, since though
bacon is nice, it isn't as nice as the /smell/.

Which reminds me of an Olde Joake:

A Catholic priest and a Rabbi are sharing a railway compartment, and
they fall to talking about the privations of the religious life.

The Catholic waxes lyrical on the delights of pig flesh, and how he
would find it hard to forego the delights of roast port and bacon
sandwiches. "I couldn't live without being able to eat pork," he
says, "I couldn't do your job at all!" He then asks the Rabbi if he
hasn't ever, in a moment of weakness, tried a taste of pork.

The Rabbi confesses that yes, when he was a young man, before he took
his vows, he was indeed tempted and had eaten some pork, and he
acknowledged that it was indeed delicious.

They sit for a moment considering this information.

The Rabbi then asks the priest about the vow of celibacy. Had not the
priest, he wondered, ever tasted the pleasures of the flesh?

The priest, after some coughing and mumbling, confesses that, yes,
there was this one time... well, a couple of times, actually, when he
was a young man, before he took vows, with a girl he met at college.

The Rabbi looks at the priest, nods sagely and says:

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"Bloody sight better than pork, isn't it?"
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

David Martin said:

Quoted message said:

I am an average shot at best and had little difficulty putting a round
into the bullseye at 150 yards with a SMLE. My shooting instructor
specialised in shooting the markers out at that range. Two shots
should not be necessary.

Quoted message said:

Now try it at variable range with a moving target.. Whilst riding a bicycle
(too drag it from the far reaches of OT).

Easier to wait until the fox stops, really. Stalking, I believe they
call it.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

[Fox hunting] is extraordinarily inefficient!

Quoted message said:

Sort of, Guy, but it ain't the guy that wants rid of the foxes that pays
for it. In that respect it's as good as killing foxes with cars - horribly
inefficient but free for the farmer.

Most farmers don't give a stuff anyway. Foxen eat neither cows nor
corn - although they do eat rabbits. I have heard tell that some
arable farmers refuse the hunt permission to ride over their lands for
this reason, but that could be another urban myth.

The point is not the cost to the farmer, but the spurious
justifications advanced for fox hunting in the several years this
debate has been running. The hunt lobby seem finally to have arrived
at an honest position: "because we like doing it" - if they had been
honest in the first place I wonder how many converts they may have
made. Maybe none at all, I don't know, but I am not especially keen
on those who require you to knock down a series of spurious arguments
before arriving at what was their true position all along. This is
why I was so opposed to invading Iraq, because, as they say, "if war
is the answer why do they have to keep changing the question?"

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

MartinM said:

I went to Russia servile years ago; having put on the booking form that I
only ate fish the rep greeted me with "but you do eat chicken as well?" you
should have seen her face drop when I said no ;-)

<shakes head in despair> Why do people put this stuff on booking forms
if they're not going to take any notice of it ? Sheesh.

--
Carol
"I was just being a little teapot. It's a bad habit of mine"
- Wyvern, Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased).

Peter Clinch said:

Quorn is, like I just said, okay, but it isn't the same
as, say, a tender piece of lamb,

Well that's kinda the point :-)

Quoted message said:

so it can't adequately substitute for
it.

Bad example for me, because I never liked lamb anyway, but I understand
what you're getting at. I haven't eaten meat for over twenty years now,
so don't really remember the taste very well. I do know that I prefer
the texture of Quorn to that of most meat though.

Quoted message said:

If you're going veggie better to look for /alternatives/ than
substitutes: cook things which work fine without meat, or anything like
meat, in other words, and appreciate those ingredients for what they are
and what they do best.

I eat stuff that's not explicitly meat substitutes too. Didn't have much
choice whe I first went veggie as there was very little commercially
available stuff specifically for vegetarians, which is one reason why
it's nice to have more options now

Quoted message said:

I'm happy to eat Quorn etc., and use it as Just Another Ingredient where
I think it'll work, but I don't see them as very good ways to replace
meat. It's like replacing a Moulton with an RSW16 and getting told that
they're both small wheel bikes so not to worry that one's much harder to
get going than the other....

Thinking about it, I probably ate meat because it was what my parents
served for dinner, rather than because I particularly liked it, so when
I decided not to eat it any more, it wasn't a huge sacrifice.

--
Carol
"I was just being a little teapot. It's a bad habit of mine"
- Wyvern, Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased).

"Carol Hague" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

I went to Russia servile years ago; having put on the booking form that

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

only ate fish the rep greeted me with "but you do eat chicken as well?"

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should have seen her face drop when I said no ;-)

<shakes head in despair> Why do people put this stuff on booking forms
if they're not going to take any notice of it ? Sheesh.

the only way to get a veggie meal in flight in those days was to phone the
people who put the trays on the plane; I assumed that my request from the
travel agent had gone through and tucked into whatever it was on the way
out; usually canneloni or similar (not Aeroflot I should add). When they ran
out of veggie meals before they got to the person who had really booked one
I caught the stewardess rummaging through the overhead lockers for a tin of
Heinz macaroni cheese, felt very guilty.
What did I eat all week? eggs caviar and smoked salmon (and vodka)