Re: And now cycle lane cameras

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:22:22 -0700,
TOG@toil,[email hidden],

Quoted message said:

Ben said:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:51:39 +0100, "Hog" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ben wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:03:46 +0100, Dentist <[email hidden]>
> wrote:

Quoted message said:

>> CT wrote;
>>> New cycle lane cameras to hit wayward drivers with £120 fine

Quoted message said:

>> The strength of British apathy never ceases to amaze me.
>> If a councillor or MP won't give an undertaking to reject this theft,
>> then argue with them, don't vote for them.

Quoted message said:

> Here's a revolutionary concept for you...

Quoted message said:

> If you don't want to pay a fine, don't break the law.

Quoted message said:

Poor Troll Mr Pedal Pusher ;o)

Not really a troll. I'm happy to break the rules now and again, but
I'll never whinge about paying for it if I get caught.

If Dentist doesn't want to pay 120 quid, then he shouldn't drive in
cycle lanes. Quite simple really.

Nice little swerve there. The point is that these aren't cycle lanes,
as such. These are areas of tarmac at the front of traffic queues,
where cycles are supposed to wait until the lights change (though few
seem to).

The OP was about cycle lanes, not advance stop boxes.
--
ZX-10R

Ben said:

The OP was about cycle lanes, not advance stop boxes.

And in true ukrm tradition, you obviously didn't read the whole atricle
in the link :o)

"The cameras would also monitor cycle boxes at traffic lights, known as
'advanced stop lines'."

--
Chris

TOG@toil said:

However, there is absolutely no danger at all in a motorcycle, having
filtered to the front of the traffic, in plonking itself there. Let's
face it, no biker is going to give it full beans if there's a cycle
right in front of him, is he? We have skins to lose too.

TBH I don't have a problem sharing an ASL with a
motorbike[1]. In fact if you do pull into an ASL that I am
sat in, I would prefer you to move in front, and get away
as soon as the lights change.

[1] I don't mean one of those ones with lawn mower engine in.

Martin.

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TBH I don't have a problem sharing an ASL with a motorbike[1]. In fact if
you do pull into an ASL that I am sat in, I would prefer you to move in
front, and get away as soon as the lights change.

[1] I don't mean one of those ones with lawn mower engine in.

Have recently returned from Italy, including some cycling in Rome and
Florence - the busy bits. The experience of the swarm of scooters at the
traffic lights all setting off at the same time aiming for much the same gap
is quite something - recommended. Mixing it with them on the tandem was
fun - slightly slower, but can get through narrower gaps. What's especially
good is that because people are used to having insane scooter riders
everywhere, they seem to be fairly observant and not actually try and kill
you.

cheers,
clive

CT said:

Ben said:

The OP was about cycle lanes, not advance stop boxes.

And in true ukrm tradition, you obviously didn't read the whole atricle
in the link :o)

"The cameras would also monitor cycle boxes at traffic lights, known as
'advanced stop lines'."

Nah, I did read it, I just ignored it.
--
ZX-10R

TOG@toil said:

In other words, it's pure revenue raising. Again.

Do you honestly believe this is the primary purpose?

--
Simon

TOG@toil said:

Quoted message said:

If Dentist doesn't want to pay 120 quid, then he shouldn't drive in
cycle lanes. Quite simple really.

Nice little swerve there. The point is that these aren't cycle lanes,
as such. These are areas of tarmac at the front of traffic queues,
where cycles are supposed to wait until the lights change (though few
seem to).

I think cyclist jumping red lights are going to be the subject of the
police's interest in the coming months and this is part of that.

Motoring types have been moaning about the pesky little peddlars and
their SPAD tendencies for quite a while and enforcement of the cycle lane
rules for all parties is going to be part of that.

--
Simon

"sweller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Motoring types have been moaning about the pesky little peddlars and
their SPAD tendencies for quite a while and enforcement of the cycle lane

^^^^

Heh. You can take the railway out of the boy...

Quoted message said:

rules for all parties is going to be part of that.

And good for it. Well, as long as other places are as liberal as
Bristol regarding bikes in bus lanes.
--
K75RT, K1100LT, ZXR750H1, 5TA.

I know I aint doing much,
doing nothing means a lot to me.

sweller said:

TOG@toil said:

In other words, it's pure revenue raising. Again.

Do you honestly believe this is the primary purpose?

Perhaps not from the people who dreamed up the legislation originally;
the guys who put in the boxes.

But from the councils implementing it - yes, I do.

I'd happily believe it was in the interests of road safety if someone
could publish the accident statistics for, say, motorcycles colliding
with cycles in aforesaid boxes.

--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

sweller said:

Motoring types have been moaning about the pesky little peddlars and
their SPAD tendencies for quite a while and enforcement of the cycle lane
rules for all parties is going to be part of that.

Show us "the rules" which state that cycles must use cycle lanes please.

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

Motoring types have been moaning about the pesky little peddlars and
their SPAD tendencies for quite a while and enforcement of the cycle
lane rules for all parties is going to be part of that.

Show us "the rules" which state that cycles must use cycle lanes please.

Oooh touchy!

Although it wasn't the best structured sentence I've ever written "the
rules" apply to car drivers which the cameras will be enforcing:

"119: Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST
NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its
times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a
broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any
cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply.
Law RTRA sects 5 & 8"

However the rule that motorists are becoming quite vocal about is traffic
lights [1]. This is what the Highway Code says about those and cyclists:

"50: You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36, TSRGD reg 10(1)"

The point I'm making is my guess is all the rules applying to the
relationship between car and pedal bike are likely to be more rigidly
enforced in the coming months.

[1] SPAD is railway shorthand for passing a red light.

--
Simon

On 25 Jul 2007 08:17:30 GMT someone who may be "sweller"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Show us "the rules" which state that cycles must use cycle lanes please.

Oooh touchy!

Although it wasn't the best structured sentence I've ever written "the
rules" apply to car drivers which the cameras will be enforcing:

Glad you have straightened that out. There are no rules which state
that cyclists must use cycle lanes, despite the attempts of the
Department for Transport.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

sweller said:

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

Motoring types have been moaning about the pesky little peddlars and
their SPAD tendencies for quite a while and enforcement of the cycle
lane rules for all parties is going to be part of that.

Show us "the rules" which state that cycles must use cycle lanes please.

Oooh touchy!

Although it wasn't the best structured sentence I've ever written "the
rules" apply to car drivers which the cameras will be enforcing:

Listen in on uk.rec.cycling for a bit.

You might be surprised to learn that a lot of cyclists are no lovers of
separate cycle paths (ie shared pavements) or on-road white paint lanes
(many of which lead you into the door zone and are downright dangerous)
or of speed pillows or pinch points.

Advanced Stop Lines are one of the few traffic engineering features
which cyclists say they find useful.

John Hearns said:

Advanced Stop Lines are one of the few traffic engineering features
which cyclists say they find useful.

So do motorcyclists. Hey, it says "Bicycle" on the tax disc.

--
Simon

sweller said:

Quoted message said:

Advanced Stop Lines are one of the few traffic engineering features
which cyclists say they find useful.

So do motorcyclists. Hey, it says "Bicycle" on the tax disc.

also motorcyclists in the advanced stop line do not cause jeremy clarkson
to fume.

for what it's worth.

and assuming they are not incompetent enough to stall when the light
hints at amber.
--
dog
sl1000 two#5

sweller said:

John Hearns said:

Advanced Stop Lines are one of the few traffic engineering features
which cyclists say they find useful.

So do motorcyclists. Hey, it says "Bicycle" on the tax disc.

I'd just love to see some pedals on a Ducati 950 :-)

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:52:17 +0100, John Hearns <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

sweller said:

John Hearns said:

Advanced Stop Lines are one of the few traffic engineering features
which cyclists say they find useful.

So do motorcyclists. Hey, it says "Bicycle" on the tax disc.

I'd just love to see some pedals on a Ducati 950 :-)

"Ducati in increased reliability shock"

Tim

Tim Hall said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So do motorcyclists. Hey, it says "Bicycle" on the tax disc.

I'd just love to see some pedals on a Ducati 950 :-)

"Ducati in increased reliability shock"

I've got a Guzzi so you will not harm me with your puny Ducati related
jibes.

--
Simon

"sweller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Hearns said:

Quoted message said:

Motoring types have been moaning about the pesky little peddlars and
their SPAD tendencies for quite a while and enforcement of the cycle
lane rules for all parties is going to be part of that.

Show us "the rules" which state that cycles must use cycle lanes please.

Oooh touchy!

Although it wasn't the best structured sentence I've ever written "the
rules" apply to car drivers which the cameras will be enforcing:

"119: Cycle lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs. You MUST
NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a solid white line during its
times of operation. Do not drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a
broken white line unless it is unavoidable. You MUST NOT park in any
cycle lane whilst waiting restrictions apply.
Law RTRA sects 5 & 8"

However the rule that motorists are becoming quite vocal about is traffic
lights [1]. This is what the Highway Code says about those and cyclists:

"50: You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36, TSRGD reg 10(1)"

The point I'm making is my guess is all the rules applying to the
relationship between car and pedal bike are likely to be more rigidly
enforced in the coming months.

[1] SPAD is railway shorthand for passing a red light.

But in order for plod to do anything about cyclists jumping or ignoring red
lights, the bikes would need an identifyer of some sort. Like a reg number,
which they (obviously) don't have. Short of being seen jumping the lights by
plod, they'll just carry on doing it.

--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19