Re: Burger wars

"Glitter Ninja" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Nancy Young said:

I have trolls killfiled, sometimes they are the cause of the crosspost.
I really didn't expect you did it. I didn't. I'm very surprised.

Eh, feel free to killfile me. While it's not common, I've definitely
crossposted ark and rfc before. It's no skin off my nose if you want to
kf me for it if it upsets you.

Obviously.

nancy

Glitter Ninja said:

Nancy Young said:

Bun/meat ratio ... even if I used the same amount of beef as the
fast food place, I'd use less bread.

I can't imagine being able to make a patty by hand that was as small
as a fast food patty. My husband worked at a small town burger joint as
a kid, and his boss always bragged that they bought patties which were
1/10th of a pound each, while McD's used patties which weighed 1/12th of
a pound. I have trouble keeping a patty that's 1/5th of a pound from
falling apart!

Mmm. Krazy Jim's Blimpy Burgers.

They take a 0.1-lb ball of meat, mash it on the grill (griddle,
actually) with a
stiff spatula. You can get doubles, triples, quads, or quints,
referring to the
number of miniature patties that show up inside the bun. They grind
the meat
in-house. Heaven! The grease runs right down your arm.

You're probably right that less than 1/5 lb can't be patted into a
burger. Alton
Brown's "Man Food Show" makes sliders by rolling ground meat like a pie
crust
between two sheets of plastic wrap, if memory serves.

Cindy Hamilton

notbob said:

Bob (this one) said:

Beef. Bread. What's to be better?

Lettuce, tomato, cheese, relish, onions, condiments, etc.

Quoted message said:

Freshly cooked burgers from any of the burger places aren't dry, either.

Since the new temperature/time rules eliminating the threat of e-coli
have been instituted, burgers are cooked more done than I prefer.
Another reason why moisture contributing elements like tomatoes and
onions are more desirable than ever.

Come on up to Michigan. Provided you avoid chain restaurants
(especially
those based in California), you can get your burger cooked any way you
want.
Menus are required to have some boilerplate about the risk of eating
undercooked food, but any restaurant you'd actually want to order a
burger
from will cook it as rare as you like.

Cindy Hamilton

YAAAAAYYYY! Kerri *and* Stacia return to ARK! Now all we need is
Tamara and my harem will be complete.

--oTTo--

Otto Bahn said:

YAAAAAYYYY! Kerri *and* Stacia return to ARK! Now all we need is
Seth and my living room suite will be complete.

IFYPFY.
--
mark south: world citizen, net denizen
echo [email hidden]|tr a-z n-za-m
"Take it? I can't even parse it!" - Kibo, in ARK

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:05:22 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Glitter

Ninja) said:

OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.

LOL! Hiya Stacia! Great to read you again! Am I still on your
Ladder of Hate? 'Cause I never stopped loving you, you know.

-=Darla=-

--
"I'm still here, you [censored]!"
---Papillon

http://www.yougotta.com/DARLA/

--

notbob said:

Nancy Young said:

So ... I'll just leave it here. Bob can't make a better burger
using those two ingredients than McDonalds can.

If he can't, it doesn't say much about his expertise as a restauranteer.

Restaurateur...

How lame...

Pastorio

Nancy Young said:

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Nancy Young said:

"Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Look, I am the first to admit I have a fast food burger once
in a while, I'm not ashamed. But I know full well even the *most*
basic burger I could make at home would be a world better than
what we're talking about.

Beef. Bread. What's to be better?

So ... I'll just leave it here.

Nancy, that was an actual question. I distinguished between actual
"quality" criteria and "suits me" criteria. Better can either mean "more
to my liking" or "higher quality" - judged against objective criteria.
Your comments fell within the "suits me" category.

No comment on the nature/cuts of the meat. No comment on the grade of
meat or how it was ground/chopped. No comment on the nature/ingredients
of the breads used. They would all be quality assessments.

Quoted message said:

Bob can't make a better burger
using those two ingredients than McDonalds can. You win.

Puhleeeze.

There was no contest. I offered a different view and asked a few
questions, that's all.

Pastorio

Glitter Ninja said:

Bob (this one) said:

Glitter Ninja wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine being able to make a patty by hand that was as small
as a fast food patty.

Quoted message said:

What a perfectly silly thing to say. All it takes is a scale.

Right. I just can't do math, that's the problem.

No, you're a moron. That's the problem. And your imagination is as
crippled as your logic.

Quoted message said:

Or is it that you responded with a whiny little complaint before you
read the whole post? Because later you comment on what I *really* said:

Nah. And your idea of a "whiny little complaint" means your reading
skills are as good as your math and your imagination.

I read the whole post before I decided to heap scorn on your empty
little head. Now toss those pretty curls and flounce around some more.
That's it... push the shades up on top of your head while you fire that
nasty look at me... Perfect.

Um, you have some spinach on your front teeth...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have trouble keeping a patty that's 1/5th of a pound from falling
apart!

See? Just in case you didn't get that, let me break it down for you,
Sparky: It's not that I can't read a scale, it's that a small patty with
no binder or fillers often falls apart. But who can argue with your
definitive advice:

See, darlin' you're talking [censored]. That "small patty with no binders or
fillers" is an industry standard, available as frozen patties or fresh
patties - or as a container of ground beef that requires a rational
human to weigh and properly form the patties. It won't fall apart unless
your cooking skills are right up there with your reading, logic and math
skills.

When I ran a ski resort foodservice operation, we made what we called
our "Junior Burgers" and patted them out in a public kitchen where
people could see them being done. Hundreds every day. Guess how much
they weighed?

No, try again.

Um, no, another guess...

Right 1/5 of a pound. Precisely 3.2 ounces.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really? Then just smoosh it together a bit more.

OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.

<LOL> See how utterly moronic you are...

No, you wouldn't. Too much of a moron. Not too good at catching sarcasm,
either.

Here are two salient facts:
1) Handling ground meat more makes it stick together more. Pressing it
together makes it stay together and results in a more substantial "bite"
when eating it.
2) Your writing skills are right up there with your reading, logic, math
and culinary ones.

Hey, here's another fact for free that I won't even put on the bill...
3) You know less than jackshit about food.

Quoted message said:

Are you for real? You tell me to "smoosh" the meat more -- and I can
assure you that I am very skilled at smooshing meat

<LOL> I'll bet you are. Are those fishnet thigh-highs?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-- and then complain that:

Quoted message said:

And this kind of nonsense is exactly what I was talking about.

Indeed. It's nonsense like your ridiculous claim that I don't know
how to smoosh meat ("smoosh" being the scientific term) correctly that's
the real problem here.

Poor Stacia. Takes pride in ignorance of culinary technique. Can't catch
the scornful dismissal of clearly absurd assertions. And sees getting
smacked around as a "complaint."

That remedial course down at the Vo-Tech is still open. Maybe you can
learn to carry the light end of the board or maybe wash cars. Save you
all the anguish that cooking and food obviously cause you.

And there's that imagination problem...

Pastorio

_.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is because most of their burgers aren't beef. Unless it is one
of the ones advertised as 'all beef' it is about half soy. The QP, BM
and B&T are all beef but I think the rest are soy/meat mix.

All McD's meat burgers in the U.S. are beef. Period. Always have been.
Their menus around the world reflect the local cultures.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

From their ingredients page:
"Beef Patty:
100% pure USDA inspected beef; no additives, no fillers, no extenders."
<http://tinyurl.com/34652>
<http://www.mcdonalds.com/app_controller.nutrition.categories.ingredients.index.html>

I stand corrected.
<snip flame>

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_.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._

Quoted message said:

If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
public reaction would be overwhelming.

An extra note to my other reply for this section of you post.

McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the aditives to their
products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
declared. People other than Hindus and vegetarians never seemed to
react at all.

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.-'😉) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
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Faux_Pseudo said:

_.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._

Quoted message said:

If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
public reaction would be overwhelming.

An extra note to my other reply for this section of you post.

McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the additives to their
products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
declared.

Doesn't sound like you're too sure what you're on about.

Quoted message said:

People other than Hindus and vegetarians never seemed to
react at all.

Why would they? The fries were wonderful.

They (and every other foodservice operation) have never had to declare
their cooking oils. They didn't "include it in their fries," they cooked
their fries in it. There has never been a requirement to talk about
cooking oils. They've done it in an effort to pacify a largely ignorant
public.

Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
neighborhood McD's.

(Try cooking some at home in rendered tallow. Or goose fat. Or duck fat.
It's a whole different experience.)

I think McD's has really gone overboard trying to offend nobody; to
please everybody. They've been trapped by so much ignorant foolishness -
they changed their burger packaging in bowing to public opinion with the
final result that the newer packaging is less biodegradable. That whole
[censored] episode with Stella pouring hot coffee in her lap and blaming
it on McD that uses the same machines and same industry standards as
every other foodservice operation.

Were it my company, I'd say, I'm sorry all you people who don't want any
contact with beef (DUH! We're a freakin burger joint!) be advised that
beef fumes permeate our kitchens and we fry our potatoes in clean beef
tallow so they taste better than everybody else's. I wonder how many
Hindus eat in McD's in the States. And vegetarians. Can't serve everybody.

One of the great (and not so great) things about the US is the vast,
vast number of choices there are for where to eat. And where not to eat.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) said:

Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
neighborhood McD's.

How long ago did they switch? It's been many, many years since I ate in a
McDs and I don't remember their fries ever being good.

Dave Smith said:

Bob (this one) said:

Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
neighborhood McD's.

How long ago did they switch? It's been many, many years since I ate in a
McDs and I don't remember their fries ever being good.

That's what happens when you get old.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
neighborhood McD's.

How long ago did they switch? It's been many, many years since I ate in a
McDs and I don't remember their fries ever being good.

That's what happens when you get old.

LOL Maybe I should rephrase that and say that I remember them not being great.
:-)

_.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
public reaction would be overwhelming.

McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the additives to their
products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
declared.

Doesn't sound like you're too sure what you're on about.

I apologize. I was operating under the assumption based on your
previous post that you liked to stay informed and therefore paid
attention to the news. So let me clear up the way I sound with some
facts for you to digest.

Circa 3 weeks ago:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/diet.fitness/02/15/mcdonald.s.fries.ap/index.html
McDonald's had said until recently that its fries were free of gluten
and milk or wheat allergens and safe to eat for those with dietary
issues related to the consumption of dairy items. But the fast-food
company quietly added "Contains wheat and milk ingredients" this month
to the french fries listing on its Web site.
<snip>
The company paid $10 million in 2002 to settle a lawsuit by vegetarian
groups after it was disclosed that its fries were cooked in
beef-flavored oil despite the company's insistence in 1990 that it was
abandoning beef tallow for pure vegetable oil.

<snip of your goal post moving>

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Darla Vladschyk said:

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:05:22 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Glitter

Ninja) said:

OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.

LOL! Hiya Stacia! Great to read you again! Am I still on your
Ladder of Hate? 'Cause I never stopped loving you, you know.

Quit it, ya big kiss-up: Stacia's roastiing an asswipe! Wait until
she's through.

--
Chris McG.
Harming humanity since 1951.
"What do you expect from a bunch of kiwi smoking sheep herders?" --
oTTo

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Bob (this one) said:

When I ran a ski resort foodservice operation, we made what we called
our "Junior Burgers" and patted them out in a public kitchen where
people could see them being done. Hundreds every day. Guess how much
they weighed?

Are you sure it wasn't Band Camp? Is your last name Stiffler? My guess
is the "hamburger" was mostly fat, which is filler. Try making a patty
with round steak ground, and watch it fall apart.

Quoted message said:

No, try again.

Um, no, another guess...

Right 1/5 of a pound. Precisely 3.2 ounces.

And you weighed each and every one of those patties on a scale? Those
poor, hungry little children waiting for a sizzling hot Junior Burger
had to wait extra long for the weigh-in and then got a cold hamburger!
Sadist.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really? Then just smoosh it together a bit more.

OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.

<LOL> See how utterly moronic you are...

YOU NEED A REST, BOB! LOL!! GOD BLESS!

Quoted message said:

No, you wouldn't. Too much of a moron. Not too good at catching sarcasm,
either.

Here are two salient facts:
1) Handling ground meat more makes it stick together more. Pressing it
together makes it stay together and results in a more substantial "bite"
when eating it.
2) Your writing skills are right up there with your reading, logic, math
and culinary ones.

I don't know, she's managed to expose you as a pompous, ignorant
jackass who thinks Burger King hamburger is Grade A. Of course your
help was invaluable in doing this.

--
Chris McG.
Harming humanity since 1951.
"What do you expect from a bunch of kiwi smoking sheep herders?" --
oTTo

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Faux_Pseudo said:

_.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._

Quoted message said:

If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
public reaction would be overwhelming.

An extra note to my other reply for this section of you post.

McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the aditives to their
products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
declared.

Those were the days before it was required and the frying oil was
probably considered a trade secret. Personally, I didn't care.

Quoted message said:

People other than Hindus and vegetarians never seemed to
react at all.

That's because the fries were crispy and they tasted REALLY good.
Hindu's (McDonald's wasn't worldwide or even nationwide at one point,
believe it or not) and vegetarians were barely a blip on the radar
screen in those days. Why either would ever want to eat at McDonald's
still confuses me.

Today, McDonald's FF aren't what they used to be... but they're still
a lot better than their chain competitors.

http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm

For decades McDonald's cooked its french fries in a mixture of about
seven percent cottonseed oil and 93 percent beef tallow. The mixture
gave the fries their unique flavor -- and more saturated beef fat per
ounce than a McDonald's hamburger.

In 1990, amid a barrage of criticism over the amount of cholesterol in
its fries, McDonald's switched to pure vegetable oil. This presented
the company with a challenge: how to make fries that subtly taste like
beef without cooking them in beef tallow. A look at the ingredients in
McDonald's french fries suggests how the problem was solved. Toward
the end of the list is a seemingly innocuous yet oddly mysterious
phrase: "natural flavor." That ingredient helps to explain not only
why the fries taste so good but also why most fast food -- indeed,
most of the food Americans eat today -- tastes the way it does.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

Faux_Pseudo said:

The company paid $10 million in 2002 to settle a lawsuit by vegetarian
groups after it was disclosed that its fries were cooked in
beef-flavored oil despite the company's insistence

I don't know how that sham make it through the courts. McDonald's
used beef flavoring and they certainly didn't hide the fact. I knew.
Why didn't you?
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.