Re: Change of mind

Duncan Smith said:

Ah [censored], which countries out of interest?

Australia, NZ, Canada (several provinces, though with different
degrees of enforcement IIRC) are the clear "leaders".

Quoted message said:

Whether true or not, I
think 'helmets=good' is an accepted axiom for most of the population
(keen cyclists aside). My in-law's an engineer of old and he thinks
they ought to be made law, as do most of my partner's friends (who
ride precious little). I'm forever getting grief from friends and
family about 'you really should wear a helmet', when I argue the toss
and mention some stats they roll their eyes as if I'm trying to say
'smoking isn't that bad for you' or something.

That's about the size of it, though many keen cyclists assume
they're a good thing too. I did for about a decade. You can't
confuse folk with mere /facts/ if their minds are made up.

Though you might ask them to produce some reasons based on, for
example, DfT accident figures why they feel cycling is clearly more
dangerous than walking or driving and thus requring of a special
hat. If they're making a case that you should wear one, get them
to back it up.

Quoted message said:

Hope we're not fighting a losing battle.

Difficult to call.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Duncan Smith wrote on 13/04/2007 20:43 +0100:

Quoted message said:

My in-law's an engineer of old and he thinks
they ought to be made law, as do most of my partner's friends (who
ride precious little).

Ask him if he wore one when he was your age (almost certainly not as
they didn't exist before the mid '80's) and whether he was any the worse
for it. He'll probably protest that was then and roads are much busier
now so suggest that the roads are actually considerably safer these days
compared to when he was young.

Quoted message said:

I'm forever getting grief from friends and
family about 'you really should wear a helmet', when I argue the toss
and mention some stats they roll their eyes as if I'm trying to say
'smoking isn't that bad for you' or something.

That approach will rarely work with those not scientifically trained.
Do they know someone who was killed or seriously injured in a car
accident. Ask if they think they would have been better off wearing a
helmet and then why in that case they don't wear one driving in case
they have an accident. You can then turn their rationalisation of why
not to to why not to for cyclists either. Or try the approach of your
father in law survived just fine etc. You have to unsettle them on
ground they are familiar with first, not in areas like cycling where
they have no personal experience. Basic change management theory.

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Duncan Smith said:

I'm forever getting grief from friends and
family about 'you really should wear a helmet', when I argue the toss
and mention some stats they roll their eyes as if I'm trying to say
'smoking isn't that bad for you' or something.

I used to get grief from work colleagues, but they have learn not to
argue about it.

Quoted message said:

Hope we're not fighting a losing battle.

If helmets become compulsory I will either give up cycling and my job,
or totally ignore the law and become a criminal. I am not wearing
something that has been shown to increase my risk on the road.

Martin.

Martin Dann said:

Duncan Smith said:

I'm forever getting grief from friends and
family about 'you really should wear a helmet', when I argue the toss
and mention some stats they roll their eyes as if I'm trying to say
'smoking isn't that bad for you' or something.

I used to get grief from work colleagues, but they have learn not to
argue about it.

Quoted message said:

Hope we're not fighting a losing battle.

If helmets become compulsory I will either give up cycling and my job,
or totally ignore the law and become a criminal. I am not wearing
something that has been shown to increase my risk on the road.

If they did bring in MH legislation and tried to prosecute someone I wonder if
they could be defeated by human rights legislation.

It should not be possible for a government to force you to do something which
has no documented safety benefit and can be shown to be lethal under certain
circumstances.

I can't believe that there is a single case where someone can *prove* a helmet
saved them from serious injury but if someone was throttled by one that should
be a pretty open and shut case.

Quoted message said:

If helmets become compulsory I will either give up cycling and my job,
or totally ignore the law and become a criminal. I am not wearing
something that has been shown to increase my risk on the road.

No lights, jumping reds, cycling on the pavement.... The police haven't
got the time or inclination to tackle those, so I doubt they'd stop an
adult to enforce a nanny law obviously aimed at kids. Most of the time.

On Apr 14, 7:10 am, Mark Thompson

pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com said:

Quoted message said:

If helmets become compulsory I will either give up cycling and my job,
or totally ignore the law and become a criminal. I am not wearing
something that has been shown to increase my risk on the road.

No lights, jumping reds, cycling on the pavement.... The police haven't
got the time or inclination to tackle those, so I doubt they'd stop an
adult to enforce a nanny law obviously aimed at kids. Most of the time.

It seems to depend on the political will. Some places such asWestern
Australia and the Nova Scotia seem to have aggressively enforced the
MHL while Ontario seems to have mostly ignored it.

A couple of checks with local police in Londong Ontrario and Toronto
reported almost no charges laid. Toronto (pop ~ 3.millions) reported
no charges in something like 5-6 years from the time the law took
effect. London (pop may 500,00 did not have that time period
available but reported 2 charges in 2 years. I did see one lad who
was cycling on the sidewalk in a small town in Ontario stopped and
told to wear a helmet. I don't think the police mentioned the riding
on the sidewalk!

The real problem is that it is a handy threat that can discourage
cycling.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada