Re: Draft dodgers on bu$h regime destroying U.S. Army

Pajova said:

Since when do you give a [censored] about out guys and gals in uniform?
They're "Nazis", remember?

The draft dodging war criminals, torturers, and terrorists
on the bu$h regime and their supporters are the Nazis. Most
of the solidiers in Iraq are their victims.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

-

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=peak+oil&btnG=Google+Search

"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incomptence.

"The tools that enable Cuba save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Again...I point in your direction, and laugh. Oh...define; "most".

Quoted message said:

From Logictimes.com:

There are those who believe the war in Iraq to be a strategic error in
the Middle East, an inflammatory unilateral action that cultivates
terror rather quells it. This position is worthy of some respect, for
although it employs flawed logic and ignores the reality on the ground,
it is at least lucid and acknowledges, by way of debating strategy, the
validity of the War on Terror.

Then there are those who claim to be "anti-war." Everyone has
encountered the diverse members of this species from time to time: the
resuscitated 60s tie-dye liberal, the frantic uninformed mother of
teenage boys anticipating the draft, the WWJB (Who Would Jesus Bomb?)
Christian, the Michael Moore acolyte convinced of Bush greed and evil.
The bedrock belief of this colorful group is that American military
might is grinding up the citizenry of Iraq for motives of profit,
revenge and/or imperialism.

How many civilians have died since the onset of the war in Iraq? There
are varying reports, but the consensus appears to be between 3,000 on
the low end and 30,000 people on the high end. An excellent argument
can be made that these numbers are wildly inflated (the ratio of men to
women killed in these supposedly random collateral events is a curious
10:1), however, for the purpose of debate, let us grant this claim and
assign validity to the running tally kept on iraqbodycount.net:

What conclusion can one draw from this? That these protestors are
pacifists, people of conscience opposed to all military conflict? That
they are overwhelmed by the unique suffering and death caused by modern
American imperialism? Or that these are decent people, simply
horrified by man's inhumanity to man?

There certainly are a few classic pacifists sprinkled into this or any
anti-war movement, but they are the rare exception rather than the
rule. The evidence supports only one conclusion: it is not the death
and suffering of innocents that is objectionable to these protestors,
only the death and suffering caused by American policy. These people
protest America, not war.

Saddam Hussein became president of Iraq on July 16, 1979 and was
deposed in April of 2003. Over that twenty-four year period, Saddam
Hussein killed between 600,000 and 1,000,000 Iraqis and was responsible
for the deaths of over 700,000 Iranians and Kuwaitis. Utilizing only
the Iraqi numbers, this is an average of between 25,260 and 42,108
people a year, or between 2105 and 3509 Iraqi citizens a month. The
United States toppled Saddam Hussein twenty-seven months ago now. If
Saddam had remained in power for those 30 months, between 63,150 and
105,270 Iraqis would have died - children starved in prisons,
dissidents fed through industrial shredders, women strangled after
visits to rape rooms all to be eventually reunited in remote mass
graves. Using the maximum credible figures available

The protestors above are indicted by their selective regard for death
in our world and Iraq in particular. Those wielding signs did not stir
themselves as Saddam harvested the boldest and brightest of Iraq for 24
years. The plight of the Sudanese or those in East Timor is met with
general disinterest. Apparently one Iraqi child inadvertently killed
by American soldiers risking life and limb to bring liberty to an
oppressed people is more horrifying that hundreds of Sudanese children
liquidated in Darfur.

The anti-war movement views Iraqi civilians deaths as grist for the
anti-American mill. Dead Sudanese are a statistic. Dead Iraqis before
the war are a memory. Dead civilians in Iraq today are an exhilarating
opportunity for the socialist left to undermine American liberty, power
and society. This fuzzy math cannot stand. Logic Times will keep,
from this day forward, the Iraq Survival Count.

Today, as many as seventy-eight thousand Iraqis are alive (and free
and perhaps voting) because of American policy. I guess that does not
interest the anti-war crowd.

(me again)...No it does not interest the anti-war crowd. Only their
hate for Bush is evident.

On 14 Nov 2005 15:54:50 -0800, "Pajova" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Today, as many as seventy-eight thousand Iraqis are alive (and free
and perhaps voting) because of American policy. I guess that does not
interest the anti-war crowd.

(me again)...No it does not interest the anti-war crowd. Only their
hate for Bush is evident.

You go Pajova!

Ultimately that's all that anyone cares to crow about. The liberal
weenies are no longer in power to foist their stupid agendas upon
Americans while another equally vapid class rules the day. It's not
the war or Bush that bothers them. It's them not being in the driver's
seat anymore.

Eventually the pendulum will swing and the righties will whine. Each
side will have their turn undoing each other's agendas and the next
thing you know... surprise! Centrist politics!

Pajova said:

The anti-war movement views Iraqi civilians deaths as grist for the
anti-American mill. Dead Sudanese are a statistic. Dead Iraqis
before the war are a memory. Dead civilians in Iraq today are an
exhilarating opportunity for the socialist left to undermine American
liberty, power and society. This fuzzy math cannot stand. Logic
Times will keep, from this day forward, the Iraq Survival Count.

Today, as many as seventy-eight thousand Iraqis are alive (and free
and perhaps voting) because of American policy. I guess that does not
interest the anti-war crowd.

(me again)...No it does not interest the anti-war crowd. Only their
hate for Bush is evident.

Bingo. Well said.

--
Albert Nurick | "Everyone is entitled to his own
[email hidden] | opinion, but not his own facts."
www.nurick.com |
04 FJR1300A / RCOS #7 | - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Uh huh. Yup. You're tripping over your buck-teeth again, jerk.

Uh huh. Yup. You're tripping over your buck-teeth again, jerk.

Thank you, Dave. (Ya damn Liberal :-))

[censored], I did'nt vote for the moron either, but at least I can express a
reason founded in facts. I like the mental exercise of discussing
things with folks who may disagree with me. Ben and I seem to be able
to do it, as well as a few others, but Jezuzz H Christ, the wet Hanky
makes Bush look like Plato.

On 15 Nov 2005 21:57:05 -0800, "Pajova" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

the wet Hanky
makes Bush look like Plato.

He's just a broken record...

Albert Nurick said:

Bingo. Well said.

Someone must have spewed some [censored] or lied. <chuckle>

-

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=peak+oil&btnG=Google+Search

"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incomptence.

"The tools that enable Cuba save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

David said:

But Hankie, you really are an [censored].

Jesus Christ Almighty alienated many small minded hateful
extremists when he spoke The Truth, too. Main thing is,
the facts I've posted stand on their own. No one has
successfully refuted anything I've posted, but many have
tried and failed.

Quoted message said:

Just go away.

My work isn't finished yet. There are still about 37%
of U.S. citizens who are extremely ignorant and
brainwashed.
Myself and my fellow Enlightened Progressive Patriots
have worked hard these past few years, and we have lowered
that number dramatically. We're making great progress,
but we can't yet declare "Mission Accomplished". When
the draft dodging liars, thieves, war criminals, torturers,
and child butchering terrorists on the bu$h regime are
locked in steel and concrete cages, I'll gloat a little,
then move on.
HTH!

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111005K.shtml

An Army Ready to Snap
By Bob Herbert
The New York Times

Thursday 10 November 2005

Have you heard what's been happening to the military?

Most people have heard that more than 2,000 American G.I.'s have
been killed in the nonstop meat grinder of Iraq. There was a flurry of
stories about that grim milestone in the last week of October. (Since
then the official number of American deaths has jumped to at least
2,055, and it continues to climb steadily.)

More than 15,000 have been wounded in action.

But the problems of the military go far beyond the casualty figures
coming out of the war zone. The Army, for example, has been stretched
so taut since the Sept. 11 attacks, especially by the fiasco in Iraq,
that it's become like a rubber band that may snap at any moment.

President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld convinced themselves that they
could win the war in Iraq on the cheap. They never sent enough troops
to do the job. Now the burden of trying to fight a long and bitter war
with too few troops is taking a terrible toll on the men and women in
uniform.

Last December, the top general in the Army Reserve warned that his
organization was "rapidly degenerating into a 'broken' force" because
of the Pentagon's "dysfunctional" policies and demands placed on the
Reserve by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

As one of my colleagues at The Times, David Unger of the editorial
board, wrote, "The Army's commitments have dangerously and rapidly
expanded, while recruitment has plunged."

Soldiers are being sent into the crucible of Iraq for three and
even four tours, a form of Russian roulette that is unconscionable.

"They feel like they're the only ones sacrificing," said Paul
Rieckhoff, a former Army lieutenant who served in Iraq and is now the
executive director of Operation Truth, an advocacy group for service
members and veterans.

"They're starting to look around and say, 'You know, it's me and my
buddies over and over again, and everybody else is living life
uninterrupted.' "

When I asked Mr. Rieckhoff what he thought was happening with the
Army, he replied, "The wheels are coming off."

The Washington Post, in a lengthy article last week, noted:

"As sustained combat in Iraq makes it harder than ever to fill the
ranks of the all-volunteer force, newly released Pentagon demographic
data show that the military is leaning heavily for recruits on
economically depressed, rural areas where youths' need for jobs may
outweigh the risks of going to war."

For those already in the Army, the price being paid - apart from
the physical toll of the killed and wounded - is high indeed.

Divorce rates have gone way up, nearly doubling over the past four
years. Long deployments - and, especially, repeated deployments - can
take a vicious toll on personal relationships.

Chaplains, psychologists and others have long been aware of the
many dangerous factors that accompany wartime deployment: loneliness,
financial problems, drug or alcohol abuse, depression, post-traumatic
stress disorder, the problems faced by the parent left at home to care
for children, the enormous problem of adjusting to the devastation of
wartime injuries, and so on.

The Army is not just fighting a ruthless insurgency in Iraq. It's
fighting a rear-guard action against these noncombat, guerrilla-like
conditions that threaten its own viability.

There are reasons why parents all across America are telling their
children to run the other way when military recruiters come to call.
There are reasons why so many lieutenants and captains, fine young men
and women, are heading toward the exit doors at the first opportunity.

A captain who is on active duty, and therefore asked not to be
identified by name, told me yesterday:

"The only reason I stayed in the Army was because one colonel
convinced me to do it. Other than that, I would have walked.
Basically, these guys who are leaving have their high-powered
educations. Some are from West Point. They've done their five years.
Why should they stay and go back to Iraq and die in a war that's just
going to keep on going?"

Beyond that, he said, "Guys are not going to stay in the Army when
their wives are leaving them."

From the perspective of the troops, he said, the situation in Iraq
is perverse.

He could find no upside. "You go to war," he said, "and you could
lose your heart, your mind, your arms, your legs - but you cannot win.
The soldiers don't win."

-

-

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=peak+oil&btnG=Google+Search

"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incomptence.

"The tools that enable Cuba save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 150 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
-- George W. Bush

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-- Adolf [censored]

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...