Re: Gearing too hard

In article <[email hidden]>,

Billy said:

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what should I do

Find a new bike shop.

--
Shane Stanley

Billy said:

Hi all, I spoke to my LBS, and it seeems that my Trek 1400 has 12 -23

rear

Quoted message said:

Cassette.
As I said I find it a struggle to climb, and was suggested to fit a

12 - 27

Quoted message said:

rear cassette by some in this NG.

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what

should I do

Quoted message said:

?
Will it make it much easier to climb, or will it be only a slight

difference

Quoted message said:

?

What do you think?

Crunch the numbers...

23 vs 27 is 5/23, which is > 25% lower gearing.

That's fairly significant, imho.

Try using your 19 (or closest) vs your 23 cog.. you'll see about the
same difference going from 23 to 27.

"Billy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all, I spoke to my LBS, and it seeems that my Trek 1400 has 12 -23 rear
Cassette.
As I said I find it a struggle to climb, and was suggested to fit a 12 -
27
rear cassette by some in this NG.

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what should I
do
?
Will it make it much easier to climb, or will it be only a slight
difference
?

What do you think?
Thanks again

More worrying than the LBS's opinion is your problem with counting. Cycling
is full of numbers man! 🙂 But seriously the 27 will make a big difference.
I even have a spare wheel with a 12-27 on it if you really want to try it
out. I'm doing Cootha on thursday am.

Adam

"Billy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all, I spoke to my LBS, and it seeems that my Trek 1400 has 12 -23 rear
Cassette.
As I said I find it a struggle to climb, and was suggested to fit a 12 -

27

Quoted message said:

rear cassette by some in this NG.

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what should I

do

Quoted message said:

?
Will it make it much easier to climb, or will it be only a slight

difference

Quoted message said:

?

What do you think?
Thanks again

4 teeth is a lot, i make it 17.4%(and sheldon agrees with me
http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/)
if you know what gear you use on your MTB on the climb you are worried
about, you could count the teeth front and rear and that would give you(or
us) a pretty good idea if 4 teeth was going to be enough for your road bike.
also, is your MTB a 9 speed cassette? (maybe you could swap it onto the road
bike for a day, if it isnt to worn. and you would need to be careful coz 27
teeth is the listed max for your rear derailleur, ideas on this anyone?????)

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Billy said:

Hi all, I spoke to my LBS, and it seeems that my Trek 1400 has 12 -23

rear

Quoted message said:

Cassette.
As I said I find it a struggle to climb, and was suggested to fit a

12 - 27

Quoted message said:

rear cassette by some in this NG.

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what

should I do

Quoted message said:

?
Will it make it much easier to climb, or will it be only a slight

difference

Quoted message said:

?

What do you think?

Crunch the numbers...

23 vs 27 is 5/23, which is > 25% lower gearing.

That's fairly significant, imho.

Try using your 19 (or closest) vs your 23 cog.. you'll see about the
same difference going from 23 to 27.

Ummmm.......recrunch......
27 - 23 = 4 (not 5)
5/20 = 25% and so 5/23 is < 25%
.........must be getting late 🙂

I get 4/23 = 17.39%

That is still a pretty big difference though and should be noticeable.

I can't remember what you said you were running on the front but you might
also want to put a smaller chainring on the front as well. Generally this
won't make a massive difference by itself as the ratio of change is lower
than on the back but if you do it in conjunction with changing the rear
cluster then you get a multipicative effect.

Early 90s I had a road bike in Sydney (Kojima) and I was running a 42/52
chainring and 12-23 or thereabouts cassette (7 speed). This was fine for
the training that I was doing on the M5 and for the triathlons I was doing
but I got caught out on one triathlon that was at Kuringai Chase National
Park. It had a 50km bike ride and I reckon that I was in my lowest gear for
about 20 km of it. I did the same triathlon a year later after swapping to
a 39/52 and 12-27 combination and found the ride to be hell of a lot easier
on the legs. This also translated in me doing a lot better on the 10km run
leg that was also pretty hilly.

Ride On,

Gags

a) Find another bike shop

b) Cheapest option to change your gearing is to convert your 12-23 to a
13-26 cassette by purchasing a 26t inner cog and a 13t outer cog (that will
be considerably cheaper than buying a whole new cassette). Remove the
existing cassette, put on the 26t cog, put on the spacer that was previously
between the 13t and 14t cogs, put on the rest of the existing cassette down
to the 14t cog, put on your new 13t outer cog, put on and tighten the
lockring. If you're willing to accept a bigger gap between the two lowest
gears, get a 28 instead of a 26.

I routinely do this to change a 12-27 cassette to a 13-30, which is a more
useful range of gears for my purposes.

Nick

"Billy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi all, I spoke to my LBS, and it seeems that my Trek 1400 has 12 -23 rear
Cassette.
As I said I find it a struggle to climb, and was suggested to fit a 12 -
27
rear cassette by some in this NG.

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what should I
do

Nick Payne said:

a) Find another bike shop

b) Cheapest option to change your gearing is to convert your 12-23 to a
13-26 cassette by purchasing a 26t inner cog and a 13t outer cog (that will
be considerably cheaper than buying a whole new cassette). Remove the
existing cassette, put on the 26t cog, put on the spacer that was previously
between the 13t and 14t cogs, put on the rest of the existing cassette down
to the 14t cog, put on your new 13t outer cog, put on and tighten the
lockring. If you're willing to accept a bigger gap between the two lowest
gears, get a 28 instead of a 26.

I routinely do this to change a 12-27 cassette to a 13-30, which is a more
useful range of gears for my purposes.

Nick

I agree. Find another shop.

Also you can make a 12-28 with a 12-25 & a 28 cog. Put the 28 plus a spacer on, then the cassette minus the 14 cog. This works well with a short arm rear derailleur. With the standard 39/53 up front the 12-28 has worked OK for me up any hill so far, ie BR, Mt Dandenong, AUDAX Alpine.

Gags said:

Early 90s I had a road bike in Sydney (Kojima) and I was running a 42/52
chainring and 12-23 or thereabouts cassette (7 speed). This was fine for
the training that I was doing on the M5 and for the triathlons I was doing
but I got caught out on one triathlon that was at Kuringai Chase National
Park. It had a 50km bike ride and I reckon that I was in my lowest gear for
about 20 km of it. I did the same triathlon a year later after swapping to
a 39/52 ...

you mean my 42 smaller ring isnt what everyone else is riding? :eek:

so my 12-25 is like your 12-23's then...

http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html

PS Billy. get a new LBS

"Bikesoiler" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick Payne said:

a) Find another bike shop

b) Cheapest option to change your gearing is to convert your 12-23 to
a
13-26 cassette by purchasing a 26t inner cog and a 13t outer cog (that
will
be considerably cheaper than buying a whole new cassette). Remove the
existing cassette, put on the 26t cog, put on the spacer that was
previously
between the 13t and 14t cogs, put on the rest of the existing cassette
down
to the 14t cog, put on your new 13t outer cog, put on and tighten the
lockring. If you're willing to accept a bigger gap between the two
lowest
gears, get a 28 instead of a 26.

I routinely do this to change a 12-27 cassette to a 13-30, which is a
more
useful range of gears for my purposes.

Nick

I agree. Find another shop.

Also you can make a 12-28 with a 12-25 & a 28 cog. Put the 28 plus a
spacer on, then the cassette minus the 14 cog. This works well with a
short arm rear derailleur. With the standard 39/53 up front the 12-28
has worked OK for me up any hill so far, ie BR, Mt Dandenong, AUDAX
Alpine.

--
Bikesoiler

Noob question...why shouldn't they just run a smaller chainring? It'd be
cheaper AND easier to fit.

I think because a cassette/cog exchange is a lot cheaper...

For that matter - Billy (or anyone else), how much is the cassette
exchange exercise going to cost you??? (or the cog exchange, whichever
option you take)...

I've been thinking about doing the sam eto my 12/23 cassette (usually
while riding up a hill!!), so would love to hear the $$$ you've been
quoted to do the job...

Cheers,
Absent Husband

Around the $100 mark for Shimano 105.
"Absent Husband" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think because a cassette/cog exchange is a lot cheaper...

For that matter - Billy (or anyone else), how much is the cassette
exchange exercise going to cost you??? (or the cog exchange, whichever
option you take)...

I've been thinking about doing the sam eto my 12/23 cassette (usually
while riding up a hill!!), so would love to hear the $$$ you've been
quoted to do the job...

Cheers,
Absent Husband

In article <[email hidden]>,

Resound said:

Noob question...why shouldn't they just run a smaller chainring? It'd be
cheaper AND easier to fit.

It's more likely to cause shifting problems (on the front).

--
Shane Stanley

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Noob question...why shouldn't they just run a smaller chainring? It'd be
cheaper AND easier to fit.

Quoted message said:

I think because a cassette/cog exchange is a lot cheaper...

that and the smallest chain that will fit on his bike is 38(i think), so he
would only be able to get a 5.3% change, going to 27 on the rear gives
17.4%, it all depends how much he really needs

Resound said:

Noob question...why shouldn't they just run a smaller chainring? It'd be
cheaper AND easier to fit.

IF he can fit a smaller chainring.

I think the original poster, Billy, gave his chainrings as 53/40. I believe
a lot of road cranksets don't take much smaller than 39 teeth, so a
new/modified cassette is generally cheaper than a new crankset.

Cheers
Peter

Weird This "topic" seems to be all over the place. Repost from other thread that somehow ended up way OOOOOT.

Have done this - for NO cost and very happy with result.
KISS principle works again!

You could just get a 27t loose cog, add it to the end of the cluster and take out a small one, say the 14t or so.
Allows you to "suck it and see" and the LBS may even have a freebie cog in the junk box. (make sure you keep the one they take out)

Trouble is that for Shimano clusters it can be problematic to jump more than 4t and the hanger length causes problems too. Suppose all der gears have these limitations.

Low price and still only 5 minute job.

Hugh Mann

Who is hoping to get well washed but not blow dried by Cyclone Ingrid

Resound said:

"Bikesoiler" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nick Payne said:

a) Find another bike shop

b) Cheapest option to change your gearing is to convert your 12-23 to
a
13-26 cassette by purchasing a 26t inner cog and a 13t outer cog (that
will
be considerably cheaper than buying a whole new cassette). Remove the
existing cassette, put on the 26t cog, put on the spacer that was
previously
between the 13t and 14t cogs, put on the rest of the existing cassette
down
to the 14t cog, put on your new 13t outer cog, put on and tighten the
lockring. If you're willing to accept a bigger gap between the two
lowest
gears, get a 28 instead of a 26.

I routinely do this to change a 12-27 cassette to a 13-30, which is a
more
useful range of gears for my purposes.

Nick

I agree. Find another shop.

Also you can make a 12-28 with a 12-25 & a 28 cog. Put the 28 plus a
spacer on, then the cassette minus the 14 cog. This works well with a
short arm rear derailleur. With the standard 39/53 up front the 12-28
has worked OK for me up any hill so far, ie BR, Mt Dandenong, AUDAX
Alpine.

--
Bikesoiler

Noob question...why shouldn't they just run a smaller chainring? It'd be
cheaper AND easier to fit.

I think a chainring would be more expensive than a couple of cogs (if
you can get em). A small chainring probably costs $60+ for something decent.

--
Nick

Peter Signorini said:

Resound said:

Noob question...why shouldn't they just run a smaller chainring? It'd be
cheaper AND easier to fit.

IF he can fit a smaller chainring.

I think the original poster, Billy, gave his chainrings as 53/40. I believe
a lot of road cranksets don't take much smaller than 39 teeth, so a
new/modified cassette is generally cheaper than a new crankset.

Cheers
Peter

And changing 40T to 39T isn't going to achieve a lot (although surely
it's more likely a 42T, not 40T?).

--
Nick

Quoted message said:

And changing 40T to 39T isn't going to achieve a lot (although surely
it's more likely a 42T, not 40T?).

well Billy said 40T, but shimano says they only make 105 with 39T, 42T or
44T and even they dont seem to sure on the 44T(depends where you look)
stu

Billy said:

Hi all, I spoke to my LBS, and it seeems that my Trek 1400 has 12 -23 rear
Cassette.
As I said I find it a struggle to climb, and was suggested to fit a 12 - 27
rear cassette by some in this NG.

However my LBS shop said it won't make a big difference, so what should I do
?
Will it make it much easier to climb, or will it be only a slight difference

Yes, it will make a big difference - IME even 23->25 is significant. The
other thing to try on short steep sections is standing, which effectively
gains you a couple of low gears, although you'll slow down.

--
bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo