Re: I don't like Starbucks

Nancy Young said:

Why all the hands free laws being enacted? Is it because legislators
are wary of technology? No. It's because it's become a major
problem.

No, it's because they're oportunistic simps that'll jump on any bandwagon,
no matter how small, to suck a vote. Why is it cops, firemen, truckers, ie
anyone with a 2-way radio, can carry on a conversation, but cell-phone users
can't? Don't give me that bull about "special training". The only special
training they get is to unkey the mike after talking. It's all bulls*.
Cellphone use has gotten a bum rap. It's not cellphones that cause
accidents, it's lousy drivers who just happen to be using cellphones who
cause accidents.

Quoted message said:

As I said, it's been scientifically proven....

By who? Cite?

Quoted message said:

....and besides, what the hell is so important
you have to be on the phone 24/7.

Well, I'm with you there, Nancy. I refuse to use a cellphone. Hell, the
phone at home is annoying enough. 😉

nb

Nancy Young said:

Why all the hands free laws being enacted? Is it because legislators
are wary of technology? No. It's because it's become a major
problem.

The problem is that there is not a big difference in loss of attention between
hands on and hands free cell phone use. They both lead to inattentiveness and
slower reactions.

Quoted message said:

As I said, it's been scientifically proven that people lose most of their
peripheral vision when talking on the phone. I think that many cell
phone users are in denial, and besides, what the hell is so important
you have to be on the phone 24/7. Man, I loved my alone time in
the car as I hurtled down the highway.

It does indeed seem like denial. I know from my own experience having to deal
with phone calls while driving that I could not pay attention to the road, and
that is the reason that I used to pull over when I had a call and why I
refrain from making calls while driving. And just about every time I go
somewhere by car I see inattentive drivers yakking on their cell phones. Some
of them are even writing notes as they drive and talk.

notbob said:

No, it's because they're oportunistic simps that'll jump on any bandwagon,
no matter how small, to suck a vote. Why is it cops, firemen, truckers, ie
anyone with a 2-way radio, can carry on a conversation, but cell-phone users
can't? Don't give me that bull about "special training". The only special
training they get is to unkey the mike after talking. It's all bulls*.
Cellphone use has gotten a bum rap. It's not cellphones that cause
accidents, it's lousy drivers who just happen to be using cellphones who
cause accidents.

The "special training" includes instruction not to use cell phones while
driving. Two way radio conversations are usually very short, and calls that
require special attention are usually done while stationary. There is a lot of
radio traffic that you tune out. It's more like listening to the car radio than
2 way communication.

I don't think anyone has given cell phones a bum rap. As you point out the blame
has been placed on the lousy drivers who get into accidents because they were
too buys talking on the phone to pay attention. The accident statistics are
quite damning.

FWIW there was an incident just down the road from where I worked where a pickup
truck ran into the back of a tractor trailer in a traffic backup. The driver of
the pickup was killed, but the guy who he had been talking to was still on the
other end of the phone when the first motorist arrived to offer assistance, and
he asked what that noise was.

Dave Smith said:

FWIW.....

Not much. I've had 3 cars rear-end me over the years. None of them were
using a cell phone.

nb

Nancy Young said:

As I said, it's been scientifically proven that people lose most of their
peripheral vision when talking on the phone. I think that many cell
phone users are in denial, and besides, what the hell is so important
you have to be on the phone 24/7. Man, I loved my alone time in
the car as I hurtled down the highway.

nancy

This morning, while waiting for some friends to pick me up alongside the
local *$, a Volvo comes around the corner, blowing a red with both
driver and passenger talking on cells.

Glad I wasn't in the crosswalk.

jim

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 13:43:59 -0500, "Nancy Young" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cell phone use leaves an electronic record for accident investigators.
Nothing else on the list does. so it is quite easy to peg their use
accurately during an investigation.

Of course people are distracted by other things. Heaven forbid I see
someone in my rear view mirror messing with their kid in the back
seat. Watch the road! Geez.

However, I commuted for years, and drove around on the weekends,
and I don't mean on country roads. I live in NJ and I'm talking about
major highways, bumper to bumper, 70 to 85 mph. Hundreds of
thousands of miles. All that time, I almost never saw what I see today.

I have lived in northern NJ for over 20 years & in the past 12 have
had regular commutes on 23, 46, 3, and 287. I drive 50 miles+ each
work day. I see it all...people on the phone are not solely
responsible for the general decline in driving. There are many reasons
for it. Cars have gotten much more sophisticated electronics in them
over the past 10-15 years. Fancier stereos, nav systems, power seat
adjustments ... more widgets all over the place. That can all be
distracting, too.

I have watched people:

Read the paper
Do a crossword
Eat - sandwich in one hand, drink in the other, ELBOWS on the wheel
Use the rear-view mirror turned fully to the left to pluck eyebrows
Smoke crack
Change clothes
Have the head damn near below the dash playing with the CD changer
Roll a joint
Barrel forward at 70+ while turned FULLY to the back dealing with kids
or a package
Shave
[censored] (check out all those not so empty water bottles on the 295
approach to the Lincoln Tunnel)

Oh, I could go on...My commute into & out of Manhattan could take up
to 2-3 hours each way and I saw a lot. Glad my office moved this year.

People spend more of their time on the road than they ever have
before. I see more people change lanes without signaling. These guys
are not all on the phone. These are the same class of twits weaving in
& out of lanes at 30 or more over the speed limit, too. They are not
all on the phone either. People realize they can get away with a lot
on the road and so they do. They run red lights, make illegal left
turns and don't say please and thank you nearly as much as they did
when I was growing up. Times change & people change. If the police
will not ticket for that behavior (except the please & thank yous, of
course), why do you think they will or even should for talking on a
phone (assuming one is doing so without causing a traffic hazard)?

Quoted message said:

Why all the hands free laws being enacted? Is it because legislators
are wary of technology? No. It's because it's become a major
problem.

Well, no..it's because of mostly faulty poor science or very few facts
or studies and the general trend to look to do something to please
people who think hands free devices will stop idiots at the wheel,
even if it isn't really effective or too worthwhile.

These laws are jokes. Almost all prohibit a traffic cop to make a stop
for talking on the phone without hands free UNLESS there is another
reason to pull the driver over. The few laws that allow it, also have
huge fines that are as unscrupulous as speed traps and as good money
makers.

Quoted message said:

As I said, it's been scientifically proven that people lose most of their
peripheral vision when talking on the phone.

That is from the Utah study of 2001. That should give you another good
reason that the hands-free laws are useless. Still, I have not seen a
study that compares those results with other driver simulations and
"distractions" that have the same duration as cell use. (I design
research studies for a living).

Quoted message said:

phone users are in denial,

As are many who do a lot of other things while driving. It is not that
I advocate inattention while driving - far from it - but I think that
pinning the vast majority of this on cell phones allows an easy out
and makes a scapegoat. It isn't the primary reason for inattentive
driving. We have perfectly good laws about reckless driving. Any of
them could be used to ticket a phone user whose driving is impaired.

Quoted message said:

and besides, what the hell is so important
you have to be on the phone 24/7. Man, I loved my alone time in
the car as I hurtled down the highway.

You are entitled to make whatever uses of your time as you wish, but
you cannot say that yours is the One True Path of behavior. TWIAVBP.

Boron

Dave Smith said:

I don't think anyone has given cell phones a bum rap. As you point out the blame
has been placed on the lousy drivers who get into accidents because they were
too buys talking on the phone to pay attention. The accident statistics are
quite damning.

Can you provide them, please?

Boron

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy Young said:

Why all the hands free laws being enacted? Is it because legislators
are wary of technology? No. It's because it's become a major
problem.

It's because politicians like to seem like they're doing something
without really doing it. Requiring that a phone be hands-free doesn't
address the issue. The problem is the occupied brain, not the occupied
hand.

--
to respond (OT only), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

Quoted message said:

Of course people are distracted by other things. Heaven forbid I see
someone in my rear view mirror messing with their kid in the back
seat. Watch the road! Geez.

However, I commuted for years, and drove around on the weekends,
and I don't mean on country roads. I live in NJ and I'm talking about
major highways, bumper to bumper, 70 to 85 mph. Hundreds of
thousands of miles. All that time, I almost never saw what I see today.

Why all the hands free laws being enacted? Is it because legislators
are wary of technology? No. It's because it's become a major
problem.

As I said, it's been scientifically proven that people lose most of their
peripheral vision when talking on the phone. I think that many cell
phone users are in denial, and besides, what the hell is so important
you have to be on the phone 24/7. Man, I loved my alone time in
the car as I hurtled down the highway.

nancy

Call me a luddite, but I've never even used a cell phone. These people have
them at the DMV and the grocery stores and everywhere they go. From what I've
over-heard of their conversations, not worth a 10 cent call.

When I talk on the phone with someone, I give them my total attention. I
shouldn't be driving while doing this. Do you think that some are out to
impress with their cell phones? That sort of seems the case here. I am
important and people have to get in touch with me. Like Don Corleone or
something.

Whatever, the people on their cels don't seem to be paying attention to their
driving.
They have lost their blinker fluid and cut me off, where I have to avoid an
accident.

Nuff ranting.

x-no-archive: yes

Boron Elgar wrote inter alia:

Quoted message said:

I see it all...people on the phone are not solely
responsible for the general decline in driving.>>

Has anyone said they are?

Surely one can say that driving with a cell phone is a bad idea without
suggesting that cell phones are to blame for all bad driving.

Naomi D.

On 10 Jan 2005 21:41:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Grismalkin)

Quoted message said:

Do you think that some are out to
impress with their cell phones?

I'm only replying because I know you're not a troll... and
IMHO: yes.

sf