Re: ID this Campy Ft. Derailleur please

Mark Janeba said:

Retro Bob said:

Can anyone identify Campy model... maybe even year range ?

http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/front2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/rear2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/top2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/head2.jpg

Nuovo Record or Record, prior to 1978

Agreed, but I am not sure it actually had the name Nuevo Record. For
Record groups of the early 70s only some of the parts were actually called
NR (real derailleur, for example), while others (such as the hubs) were
never designated "nuevo". Front derailleur was a gray area, as was the
crankset. But since the cranks were changed sometime before 1970 to the
new bolt pattern, they may have be "new".

Just checked, and my '70 front derailleur is exactly the same as these
pictures. No "nuevo" designation on the cranks or front derailleur, only
the rear.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember
_`\(,_ | that your initial objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ
(_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Mark Janeba said:

Retro Bob said:

Can anyone identify Campy model... maybe even year range ?

http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/front2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/rear2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/top2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/head2.jpg

Nuovo Record or Record, prior to 1978

Agreed, but I am not sure it actually had the name Nuevo Record. For
Record groups of the early 70s only some of the parts were actually called
NR (real derailleur, for example), while others (such as the hubs) were
never designated "nuevo".

Yes, I wasn't sure if the front ever went Nuovo either.

Front derailleur was a gray area, as was the

Quoted message said:

crankset. But since the cranks were changed sometime before 1970 to the
new bolt pattern, they may have be "new".

I thought the cranks stayed record, while the BB went "Nuovo."
PS: Nuevo is Spanish, I think the Italian is Nuovo.

Quoted message said:

Just checked, and my '70 front derailleur is exactly the same as these
pictures. No "nuevo" designation on the cranks or front derailleur, only
the rear.

Mark "learned most of his Italian reading bike parts' printed material"
Janeba

Mark Janeba said:

I thought the cranks stayed record, while the BB went "Nuovo."
PS: Nuevo is Spanish, I think the Italian is Nuovo.

Pardonnez-moi. Yeah, you're right.

Quoted message said:

Mark "learned most of his Italian reading bike parts' printed material"
Janeba

--

David L. Johnson

__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy

David L. Johnson said:

Mark Janeba said:

I thought the cranks stayed record, while the BB went "Nuovo."
PS: Nuevo is Spanish, I think the Italian is Nuovo.

Pardonnez-moi. Yeah, you're right.

Quoted message said:

Mark "learned most of his Italian reading bike parts' printed material"
Janeba

LOL

Francesco "learned most of his english reading bike newsgroups" Devittori

"Retro Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Janeba said:

Quoted message said:

Just checked, and my '70 front derailleur is exactly the

same as these

Quoted message said:

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pictures. No "nuevo" designation on the cranks or front

derailleur, only

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the rear.

Thanks boys, clears up the front derailleur.

As a general question, what exactly was the Nuovo line ? The

Record

Quoted message said:

line seems to continue past the New Record... did they ever

make a

Quoted message said:

clean break ?

Go to one of those Campy time lines on the internet and you will
see that there was an original Record group that got modified,
IIRC, in the late 60s when some of the parts, like the rear
derailleur, went from steel to Al. So, you had a mixed group of
Record and Nuovo Record -- and then that was complicated by Super
Record, which affected only a few parts in the line -- and not in
a significant way, unless you consider holes significant. Record
and Super Record and Nuovo Record for a pretty long time,
probably ten years. I think the brake calipers were virtually
unchanged for 15 or more years, except for a little CPC lip on
the cam lever. The levers changed, though. They got holes. This
is where a $1.50 drill bit could be worth hundreds in DIY
upgrades. -- Jay Beattie.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Retro Bob said:

Can anyone identify Campy model... maybe even year range ?
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/front2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/rear2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/top2.jpg
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/head2.jpg

Quoted message said:

Mark Janeba said:

Nuovo Record or Record, prior to 1978

David L. Johnson said:

Agreed, but I am not sure it actually had the name Nuevo Record. For
Record groups of the early 70s only some of the parts were actually called
NR (real derailleur, for example), while others (such as the hubs) were
never designated "nuevo". Front derailleur was a gray area, as was the
crankset. But since the cranks were changed sometime before 1970 to the
new bolt pattern, they may have be "new".

Just checked, and my '70 front derailleur is exactly the same as these
pictures. No "nuevo" designation on the cranks or front derailleur, only
the rear.

Right. A 1052 Record has a cast cable housing stop on the
left side of the body. This later #1052/1 Record does not.

There are various cages with holes slots or lips and they
are all considered minor variants so it stayed Record, not
Nuovo Record.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 06:40:16 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just checked, and my '70 front derailleur is exactly the same as these
pictures. No "nuevo" designation on the cranks or front derailleur, only
the rear.

Right. A 1052 Record has a cast cable housing stop on the
left side of the body. This later #1052/1 Record does not.

There are various cages with holes slots or lips and they
are all considered minor variants so it stayed Record, not
Nuovo Record.

Yes, it wasn't until the engineering masterstroke of making the
articulating arms black intstead of silver that allowed the Record
derailleur to be conferred with "Super" status.

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Comprehensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com

John Dacey said:

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 06:40:16 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just checked, and my '70 front derailleur is exactly the same as these
pictures. No "nuevo" designation on the cranks or front derailleur, only
the rear.

Right. A 1052 Record has a cast cable housing stop on the
left side of the body. This later #1052/1 Record does not.

There are various cages with holes slots or lips and they
are all considered minor variants so it stayed Record, not
Nuovo Record.

Yes, it wasn't until the engineering masterstroke of making the
articulating arms black intstead of silver that allowed the Record
derailleur to be conferred with "Super" status.

-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Comprehensive catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com

Dear John,

When the underbellies of some B-29's were painted gloss
black, the Japanese searchlights began tracking only the
unpainted bombers, according to Werrell's bomber history,
"Blankets of Fire."

The B-29, of course, was known as the Superfortress.

Clearly Campagnolo must have been preparing to switch to
lower-altitude night operations, and the black Super
derailleur was an attempt to make the bicycles less visible
in car headlights.

Carl Fogel

Retro Bob said:

Quoted message said:

Clearly Campagnolo must have been preparing to switch to
lower-altitude night operations, and the black Super
derailleur was an attempt to make the bicycles less visible
in car headlights.

Like the planes, if you plan to ride in the day you have to repaint
though. Nothing shows up better in the day than a black object in the
sky.

Back on topic... a friend suggested that my derailleur might be a
"lower level" model than the record since his (known to be a Record
from roughly the same period) has all the rough casting edges on
those arms rounded smooth.

http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/front2.jpg (mine)
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/campy_smooth.jpg (his)

Any additional thoughts on that ?

Dear Bob,

Clearly Campagnolo must have been preparing for longer
missions at higher altitude by smoothing the front
derailleur arms to reduce wind drag.

Some ground crews are rumored to have ground off the raised
"Campagnolo" lettering on the front of the mounting bracket
for the same reason.

Carl Fogel

-snip-

Retro Bob said:

Back on topic... a friend suggested that my derailleur might be a
"lower level" model than the record since his (known to be a Record
from roughly the same period) has all the rough casting edges on
those arms rounded smooth.

http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/front2.jpg (mine)
http://users.rcn.com/uctraing/campy/campy_smooth.jpg (his)

Same part, different girl at the polishing station.

You can easily snap that changer apart, file the parting
lines and buff the parts on a cotton wheel with some rouge.
There used to be a sub-industry of guys who drilled and
polished those things new( Renzetti, et al.), offering
'souped up' components.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:22:17 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Same part, different girl at the polishing station.
You can easily snap that changer apart, file the parting
lines and buff the parts on a cotton wheel with some rouge.
There used to be a sub-industry of guys who drilled and
polished those things new( Renzetti, et al.), offering
'souped up' components.

Retro Bob said:

Thanks Andrew. I've done that work before. We used to rework
the rough Weinmann castings into some terrific looking center
pulls since Weinmann didn't want to do it. I figured with
Campy it must be an intentional choice to produce a less
expensive derailleur.

We discussed that last week. The Gran Sport is a Record in
all but that outside arm - pressed from sheet and looked
terible.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971