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Re: Low Carb (Paleo) Half Marathon Report

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
27 September 2004
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28 September 2004
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Tom
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11
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  1. This is a great experiment. Thanks for sharing the results with us Ig. It
    makes me feel more confident in the way I eat, hearing about your good
    outcome. A lot of my friends that are against lo-carbing don't believe that
    it's possible to run that far without eating high carb. Although an
    experiment of 1 is not proof, at least I know for myself that it's not
    harmful.
    Tom
    210/180/180

    "Ignoramus12690" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I ran a half marathon today, in Quad Cities. Some highlights:

    - next to no carbs eaten yesterday and today (due to eating no vegs to


    avoid

    Quoted message said:

    "runners trots" that I had on my previous extended run)
    - No Gatorade
    - No bonking
    - Ran without stopping even for a second
    - 2:08:50 running time
    - Feeling very good afterwards

    The weather was absolutely fabulous, fresh and sunny. The road was
    mostly flat, with some long but very gentle hills and bridges. Lots of
    music bands, kids, "Go daddy go" signs etc. One woman was running with
    a child carriage designed for running, with a kid in it, in fact
    running quite well despite that handicap! She also ran half
    marathon. Everyone was in a great mood. A very enjoyable setting.

    The purpose of my run was to perform an experiment and see how well I
    could perform running a serious (for me) distance of 13.02 miles
    without eating carbs. I tried to be conservative and basically jogged
    through the run at 9+ minutes per mile (closer to 10 but below 10). I
    do not think that I could run it substantially faster though, perhaps
    I could gain 4 or so minutes, had I known better how to distribute my
    efforts.

    The result of this experiment is that LC did not make me "bonk". In
    fact, I ran steadily throughout. Not terribly fast at 9+mpm, but, I
    think, being a little better or close to the median running time is
    not bad for the first timer with little relevant training. Since I ate
    low carb for quite a while, it is my supposition that for the most
    part, I ran using fat as fuel.

    After the run, I measured by blood glucose. My blood sugar was 59
    plasma calibrated, which is not terribly far from my normal level
    these days (70). I was functioning fine at that level, went to a farm
    supply store in that town and bought stuff. I felt fine and was in a
    great mood. Then I drove home, picking up 13 90 lbs concrete patio
    blocks at menards. The point of this is that I was not, by any means,
    exhausted and still am not exhausted.

    I replenished my energy reserves with cooked bacon (smoked pork
    belly), and nuts. No carbs or fruits after the run, again, somewhat
    for experimental purposes as my diet does actually allow fruits. I
    just did not eat them lately due to wanting to take it slow to see if
    the diet works in its conservative form, without fruits. Maybe, if by
    the end of OCtober I do not start regaining, I will allow myself to eat
    some fruits. Picked a bag's worth of free fruits and cookies for my
    wife, but have not eaten any yet. Will probably eat some later today,
    as the experiment is basically over.

    What's most amazing is that my knees are basically fine and I could
    easily run more today. Before, I would be all in pain, having hard
    times going upstairs or the 3rd story of our house, whereas today it
    was not the case.

    My conclusions.

    1. Saying that I cannot run an extended distance without carbs is
    baloney. Even though I am not, by any means, a highly trained athlete.

    2. I would like to, tentatively, train for next year's Chicago
    Marathon and try to run under 4 hours. That's a major commitment of
    time, as I realize -- a marathon is a whole different animal -- so
    perhaps I will abandon that idea.

    3. I definitely function better on a high fat diet. For a
    non-athletic-freak, recreationally running dufus like me, LC helped me
    to run the whole thing steadily. And my knees are also better.

    4. Female runners are beautiful regardless of age.

    5. While the max speed on LC, for a great athlete, may be not better
    than with carbs, endurance for the more average person is pretty
    unbeatable. I am still full of energy and have big landscaping plans
    and generator repair plans for tonight. I ran for 2 hours many years
    before, and was basically disabled for a few days due to knee pain,
    and was wasted for that day. Now, I am okay -- feeling the effects, but
    basically functioning well.

    6. training runs on LC, if we accept that my glycogen stores are low,
    are using fat as fuel from the beginning. Ie, I run for 30 minutes,
    probably mostly using fat as fuel. (it is purely a speculation and I
    want to read more articles about this). So, I am training my fat
    oxidation energy system at every training run. A carb eater runs on
    carbs first, and does not train the fat oxidation system. So, once he
    runs out of carbs, he bonks since the fat oxidation system is not
    trained. That's instead of continuing running, but more slowly.

    Again, this is a pure wild assed speculation, but it makes some sense
    to me. I will read up on it. The implication of this speculation is
    that I could train for good performance on long runs, while running
    shorter traiing runs, as long as I eat LC.

    A very trained athlete eating carbs, would, of course, not bonk
    either. But I am not one.

    7. I had no "electrolyte" issues. I drank a tiny bit of water with
    "lite salt" before the run, and drank water provided at the tables.
    Thanks to all who suggested to take this issue lightly.

    8. I recommend to low carbers to run and ignore suggestions that
    running using fat as fuel is going to destroy them. (ask your doctor,
    YMMV, etc)

    I want to thank all rec.running participants who gave me their
    suggestions.

    What a great day!

    i

  2. "Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:huT5d.526276$M95.488811@pd7tw1no...

    Quoted message said:

    This is a great experiment. Thanks for sharing the results with us Ig. It
    makes me feel more confident in the way I eat, hearing about your good
    outcome. A lot of my friends that are against lo-carbing don't believe


    that

    Quoted message said:

    it's possible to run that far without eating high carb. Although an
    experiment of 1 is not proof, at least I know for myself that it's not
    harmful.
    Tom
    210/180/180

    It may all be dumb luck, though. Please do not follow his horrible example.
    As a past distance runner, I know the correct way to train and the incorrect
    way. He did it all wrong. He could have been terribly injured, and may still
    find some unfortunate after effects.

    He only ran 6 miles a week (!!!!) and very, very slowly. He did not ease up
    to longer mileage over an extended period of time, which is what one should
    do. And now he says he'll run a marathon. That's like saying, 'well, I walk
    10 miles a week on flat surfaces, I think I'll now climb Everest'.

    Please go to www.runnersworld.com for more reliable, intelligent and factual
    information.

    Martha

  3. Ignoramus16074 said:

    I am kind of at crossroads now, on the one hand, I am considering a
    full marathon, on the other, it is a huge personal effort. Maybe I
    will concentrate on achieving much better performance at half
    marathons.

    Any good marathon training program will include at least one half marathon
    race. In other words, the two goals are compatible -- while you're preparing
    for the marathon, use half marathon performances to measure your progress.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  4. Donovan Rebbechi said:

    Any good marathon training program will include at least one half marathon
    race.


    ^^^^

    Wouldn't that depend on availability? We did a number of 13 mile
    runs but no races. A lot of people did the Bolder Boulder but
    that's only 10k.

  5. Bear G said:
    Donovan Rebbechi said:

    Any good marathon training program will include at least one half marathon
    race.


    ^^^^
    Wouldn't that depend on availability?

    I was talking about general-purpose marathon training schedules, such as
    those prescribed by various books. These usually include a few races. Most
    people can't follow such a racing schedule to the letter and have to adapt
    their schedule of racing to what is actually available (which nearly always
    includes using slightly different race dates than what the program calls for,
    for example)

    But that's completely orthogonal to the point that I was trying to make.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/


  6. Quoted message said:

    It may all be dumb luck, though. Please do not follow his horrible


    example.

    Quoted message said:

    As a past distance runner, I know the correct way to train and the


    incorrect

    Quoted message said:

    way. He did it all wrong. He could have been terribly injured, and may


    still

    Quoted message said:

    find some unfortunate after effects.

    He did it all wrong? Ig stated he is not a highly trained athelete. He
    did finnish the race though and then continued to work around the house
    afterward. I realize that lo-carbing before a half-marathon is not the
    conventional method, but neither is the diet style itself to a lot of
    people. Ig mentioned he didn't bonk. Part of the experiment was to see if a
    bonk would occur doing lo-carb. After a certain period of time, it is
    thought that the body switches to fat instead of glucose. Highly trained
    runners may make that transition more smoothly through years of training. If
    your body is used to using fat for fuel already, smaller distances at a
    slower pace should pose no problems. Lots of people run marathons on high
    carb and is probably the best way to do it, but it was not the point of the
    run.

    Quoted message said:


    He only ran 6 miles a week (!!!!) and very, very slowly. He did not ease


    up

    Quoted message said:

    to longer mileage over an extended period of time, which is what one


    should

    Quoted message said:

    do. And now he says he'll run a marathon. That's like saying, 'well, I


    walk

    Quoted message said:

    10 miles a week on flat surfaces, I think I'll now climb Everest'.

    This is an exagerated analogy, but I know what you mean. Some people
    have no clue what they're getting themselves into. But I do think that if
    you can walk 10 miles without problems, you should be able to walk 40 miles.
    And if you can run for a half hour, 2 hours is quite a bit longer, but not
    unattainable. A girl at work(not a lo-carber) ran the Canadian Death Race,
    125km. Her knees were sore for 5 days and some of her toenails fell off. She
    trained for a total of 5 months. She is not a marathoner. Only running 10km
    at a time and 20km once while training. She does do a fair amount of sports
    and rock climbs as well. Everyone told her she was crazy, me too. Shows you
    though, what some people can accomplish when you tell them they can't do
    something. She doesn't plan on doing it again.
    Tom

    Quoted message said:


    Please go to www.runnersworld.com for more reliable, intelligent and


    factual

    Quoted message said:

    information.

    Martha

  7. Ignoramus16074 said:

    To see whether, as it would be according to some opinions, a bonk
    would happen due to low glycogen.

    You keep saying that, but I don't remember anyone ever saying that you
    would bonk. Did I miss something? Maybe in one of the cross posted groups?

    Phil M.

  8. "Ignoramus16074" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    On 2004-09-27, Ignoramus16074 <[email hidden]>


    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I am kind of at crossroads now, on the one hand, I am considering a
    full marathon, on the other, it is a huge personal effort. Maybe I
    will concentrate on achieving much better performance at half
    marathons.

    Any good marathon training program will include at least one half


    marathon

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    race. In other words, the two goals are compatible -- while you're


    preparing

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for the marathon, use half marathon performances to measure your


    progress.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Makes sense. Maybe I will train with the goal of running a better half
    marathon, and when it becomes a piece of cake, I would perhaps be able
    to run the full marathon.

    i

    Should a person on a low carb use the phrase "piece of cake"?


  9. Quoted message said:

    What a horrible example, a guy ran his first 1/2 marathon without
    stopping...
    i

    I thought it was a good experiment and think you did very well. Who cares
    if it was slower or not as far as the best in the world. Your still going to
    whip 95% of the population anyway. This is a good example of a myth about
    something that couldn't be done on lo-carb. It's not scientific evidence and
    it wasn't meant to be. I'm glad you made it to the end without stopping and
    not feeling any bad effects. I see the whole thing as a good learning
    experience. Thanks for sharing.
    Tom

  10. Phil M. said:

    You keep saying that, but I don't remember anyone ever saying that you
    would bonk. Did I miss something? Maybe in one of the cross posted groups?

    I think I and others warned him that a LC diet probably left him
    with depleted glycogen stores and he was likely to bonk earlier
    than another runner on a conventional diet and that successfully
    running for X minutes was no guarantee he wouldn't bonk before
    X+15 minutes.

  11. Ignoramus16074 said:
    In article said:
    Ignoramus16074 said:

    To see whether, as it would be according to some opinions, a bonk
    would happen due to low glycogen.

    You keep saying that, but I don't remember anyone ever saying that
    you would bonk. Did I miss something? Maybe in one of the cross
    posted groups?

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl3260153338d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF
    -8&selm=vgi2d.203685%24Fg5.145484%40attbi_s53

    ``You need muscle glycogen to burn fat, and you can't refresh it
    fast enough by eating energy gels. (That doesn't mean they're
    worthless, just not enough to allow you to run indefinitely.)
    Once your muscle glycogen is exhausted you bonk.''

    But still, he's not saying you are going to bonk. Bonking in a half
    marathon is not likely for anyone, even if they were on a starvation diet.

    Phil M.

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