Re: Mavic 10 sp cassette conundrum

Please,

I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:

levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
energy, loses, lubrication,
....

I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
useful.

I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market ? Are
there any books specifically on bicycle technology ?

--
Joe Mc Cool

joe mc cool <[email hidden]> wrote in news:c4unlo$ptl$1$8302bc10
@news.demon.co.uk:

Quoted message said:

I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

A couple of popular books in this area are *Bicycle Science* by Wilson and
*High-Tech Cycling* by Burke. Some of the science in these books is fairly
advanced (e.g., aerodynamics and biomechanics), but engineering students
shoudn't have trouble with the material. The Wilson book is more hard core
(science-wise) than the Burke book.

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 18:45:42 +0100, joe mc cool <[email hidden]> wrote:

<Please,
<
<I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
<It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
<aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.
<
<Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
<source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:
<
< levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
< forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
< energy, loses, lubrication,
< ....
<
<I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
<useful.
<
<I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
<might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

Already been [well] written - The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt
And although I read it at age 40+, I believe it's appropriate for teens.

<Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market ? Are
<there any books specifically on bicycle technology ?

William Holiday said:

Already been [well] written - The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt
And although I read it at age 40+, I believe it's appropriate for teens.

Not taking anything away from Jobst's book, but it covers only wheels.
It doesn't say anything about the steering or balancing of bicycles, or
about gearing, and almost nothing about lubrication.

I would suggest an old but fascinating book: Archibald Sharpe's
treatise on bicycles and other wheeled things, from a century ago.

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

joe mc cool said:

Please,

I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

-snip-
I developed and taught a bicycle service class for 28 years
with many analogies and examples from other simple machines
to explain bicycles to the novice. And I'm interested. Write
me please.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Joe Mc Cool who? said:

I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

Quoted message said:

Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:

Quoted message said:

levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
energy, loses, lubrication,
....

Quoted message said:

I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
useful.

I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading
don't exclude the largest part of your audience.

Quoted message said:

I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for
that matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in the
field, how they did it and what you foresee as your contribution.

Quoted message said:

Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are
there any books specifically on bicycle technology?

You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you see,
its location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.

I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any surer
of your subject than what you present here, it could be tough
sledding.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Jobst Brandt said:

Joe Mc Cool who? said:

I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle". It
is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some aspects
of physics (or engineering) and science.
Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:
levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
energy, loses, lubrication, ....
I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant
and useful.

I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading don't
exclude the largest part of your audience.

Quoted message said:

I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.

You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for that
matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in the field,
how they did it and what you foresee as your contribution.

Quoted message said:

Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are there
any books specifically on bicycle technology?

You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you see, its
location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.
I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any surer of
your subject than what you present here, it could be tough sledding.
Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
of bicycles?

Carl Fogel

--

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the
Bicycle". It is aimed at young people and will help them to
understand some aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
source of material for illustrating physical phenomena:
levers, gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal
forces, gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos,
energy, loses, lubrication, ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant
and useful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading
don't exclude the largest part of your audience.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and
who might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to
share.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for
that matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in
the field, how they did it and what you foresee as your
contribution.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are
there any books specifically on bicycle technology?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you
see, its location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any
surer of your subject than what you present here, it could be tough
sledding.

Quoted message said:

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the
physics of bicycles?

I'm not sure what you see as "physics of bicycles" but the mechanical
aspects are no different from machinery in general. At intervals,
articles on how a rider keeps a bicycle upright appear, usually
written by someone unclear on the subject or they wouldn't write about
it.

I believe the interaction between man and machine clouds the issue
greatly so that all sorts of almost religious beliefs are bandied
about placing all the weaknesses of the system on the machine rather
than the rider.

What is it that needs more explanation than has been available for
a long while and how does Mr. anonymous plan to do this?

.... and will he publish anonymously?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

mr cool (do you have a real name or will your book also be unknown?)

it's already been written:
Introduction to Engineering Materials: The Bicycle and the Walkman,
1992, McMahon & Graham.

Bruce

Jobst Brandt said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm in the process of writing a book on "Physics and the Bicycle".
> It is aimed at young people and will help them to understand some
> aspects of physics (or engineering) and science.
> Over the years I have come to realise that the bicycle is a rich
> source of material for illustrating physical phenomena: levers,
> gears, expanding and compressing gases, centrifugal forces,
> gyroscopic forces, electric circuits, dynamos, energy, loses,
> lubrication, ...
> I feel that young people will find this sort of reading relevant and
> useful.
I think you are getting off on the wrong foot at the outset. Don't
condescend to writing for "young people". If it is worth reading
don't exclude the largest part of your audience.
> I would like to hear from anyone who has thought about this and who
> might have specific ideas, or experiments, they would like to share.
You may have missed the principal requirement of such a text or for
that matter any endeavor. First find out what others have done in the
field, how they did it and what you foresee as your contribution.
> Or, perhaps there is a book like this already on the market? Are
> there any books specifically on bicycle technology?
You might look in the FAQ for a lot of this information. As you see,
its location is listed in this newsgroup monthly.
I don't give your endeavor much anticipation. If you aren't any surer
of your subject than what you present here, it could be tough
sledding.

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
of bicycles?

I'm not sure what you see as "physics of bicycles" but the mechanical
aspects are no different from machinery in general. At intervals,
articles on how a rider keeps a bicycle upright appear, usually written
by someone unclear on the subject or they wouldn't write about
it.
I believe the interaction between man and machine clouds the issue
greatly so that all sorts of almost religious beliefs are bandied
about placing all the weaknesses of the system on the machine rather
than the rider.
What is it that needs more explanation than has been available for a
long while and how does Mr. anonymous plan to do this?
... and will he publish anonymously?
Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

I'll try again.

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
of bicycles?

Carl Fogel

--

Carl Fogel said:

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the
physics of bicycles?

I don't know any such books. I leafed through Whitt and Wilson and
found old wives tales, weird bicycles and obscuring jargon. I didn't
find much physics or generic analyses, such as what causes tire
rolling resistance and why such drag curves change with inflation
pressure as they do, etc.

Would you explain what you would like to see under the title "Physics
of Bicycles"?

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

carlfogel said:

Dear Jobst,

I'll try again.

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
of bicycles?

A search for "bicycle science" on amazon brought up plenty of
candidates, although I would not be surprised to find them all having
some faults.

James

Quoted message said:

Would you explain what you would like to see under the title "Physics
of Bicycles"?

The bicycle could be used as a device to introduce various topics,
some of which you have tackled in the FAQ. What the FAQ lacks is
diagrams, something made up for in your book on wheels.

It took me a while to get the cornering forces acting on a wheel
straight in my mind, so that would be an obvious one.

As you indicate, rolling resistance vs. tyre pressure is a good topic.

Drag and aerodynamics are generally of interest.

The workings of the gears and the way leverage is applied, the
variation of tension in the chain depending on the gear.

Depending on the type of textbook, there are a number of good
experiments which I think could be divised and included to
demonstrate the points. Your plucking of a spoke at various locations
to indicate the load in a wheel is a good one. Measuring the tension
in the chain could also be a good one using some simplified
apparatus. Some simple roll-down tests would demonstrate the effects
of aerodynamics.

--
R.

<> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements
<> The tall blond one. always cause trouble."
<> [email hidden]

Jobst Brandt said:

Carl Fogel said:

What book do you recommend for young people interested in the physics
of bicycles?

I don't know any such books. I leafed through Whitt and Wilson and found
old wives tales, weird bicycles and obscuring jargon. I didn't find much
physics or generic analyses, such as what causes tire rolling resistance
and why such drag curves change with inflation pressure as they do, etc.
Would you explain what you would like to see under the title "Physics of
Bicycles"?
Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Dear Jobst,

Actually, I was hoping that you would explain what you like to see under
the title "Physics of Bicycles" and give an example, but you've just
explained that you don't know of any such books.

So it sounds like the original poster's idea is a good one--a book about
the physics of bicycles for young people. Rolling resistance, wind drag,
spoke tension, steering, chain behavior, gearing, braking, cornering,
drafting, frame design, and so on seem like interesting topics.

I find Isaac Asimov's 3-volume "Understanding Physics" quite clear,
readable, and helpful for basic physics, but he never cranked out a
volume on bicycles in particular.

Sorry to hear that you have no suggestions.

Carl Fogel

--

"carlfogel" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

<snipes at Jobst snipped>

Quoted message said:

So it sounds like the original poster's idea is a good one--a book about
the physics of bicycles for young people. Rolling resistance, wind drag,
spoke tension, steering, chain behavior, gearing, braking, cornering,
drafting, frame design, and so on seem like interesting topics.

It's unclear as to whether the idea under discussion is a book to teach
physics to students using the bicycle as the primary example, or a book to
explain the specific physics involved to young people who were interested in
cycling. I'd assumed the former from the OP.

I don't think the bicycle is a very good example to teach physics for a couple
of reasons. First (as I think Jobst alluded to), the man-machine interface
complicates things. Second, bicycling is so unpopular among today's youth that
as a familiar example you might as well use wringer washing machines and
carpet beaters.

If the idea is to write a physics book for young cyclists, I see no reason why
it couldn't be a book for old cyclists also.